The Mutericator
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Posts posted by The Mutericator
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My only real issue with Prime Trilogy is that widescreen, Wiimote aiming, and the default difficulty settings combine to make the game ridiculously easy for someone who has played it before. I mean, I knew it was going to be somewhat easy going into it, since I already more or less remembered everything, but I had no idea I would get through it without dying once, even on Veteran (normally I die all the time on Omega Pirate and at least once or twice on Ridley).
Echoes is a bit better about it, probably since I don't remember it nearly as well (having not sequenced broken the hell out of it like Prime), but even its best enemies I'm finding rather simple - those horned things in Torvus Bog aren't NEARLY as ragequit-worthy as they were before.
Aside: Shame, Retro, for subtly patching over some of the best sequence break spots in later releases of Prime and in Prime Trilogy. I'm keeping my original disc just for those.
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But that's the point: I wasn't talking about you or anyone else posting in this thread thus far. You(and a few others) erroneously attributed what I said as being against you, when in fact I said most of the internet(and a little bit of evidence here from more than a year ago). I can't give you evidence from here because it's been blasted off into the aether, and if I were to give you evidence from elsewhere, I'd have to quote every message board online that discusses video games.
If you feel like you don't belong in the group I mentioned, were excited about the game and was promptly let down, well it sucks that you didn't enjoy it, but then by all means excuse yourself from the "most" category.
I was operating under the assumption that Thalzon was checking out other places and reviews other than OCR(which is for the most part the most level-headed online spot I know), and that he should be wary that as always, there's that vocal group that denounces everything everywhere without giving it the time of day.
Maybe it was the proximity of my post, but I sure wasn't going after anyone in this thread with that statement, so I apologize if it sounded like that was the case.
Interesting. I have to admit, I thought you were trying to speak on behalf of the internet as a whole, when what you saw was only on the corners you visit; I noticed something of an opposite reaction from my corners, where hype for Other M was pretty much through the roof. I accept your apology, and hope you will accept my apology for an overzealous reaction.
the middle part of the thread was pretty ridiculous. if you thought other m sucked, you were a hardcore metroid fan who hates stories and using your head. and if you liked the ridley scene you're just plain dumb.Au contraire. I don't by any means hate stories, I just hate bad ones that are forced on you like this one. And the Ridley scene is, at best, out of character even for the version of Samus portrayed in Other M.
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I've started thinking about the imprortance of knowing the character's backstory... and I realized it's completely irrelevant to the game, even when it ties into the story.
Monkey Island introduces Guybrush with his memorable line "I wanna be a pirate". That's all we need to know. Do we need to hear about how his family is poor, or how he left an orphanage, or is the runaway son of a wealthy merchant, or has amnesia, or anything? No. Master Chief, and what Spartans are? Not really. Link's backstory? Nope. Sonic's? Nope. Mega Man? Not really.
Might just be that my gaming has been rather limited, but I'm having trouble coming up with a character whose backstory is actually relevant to the game. Sure, Super Metroid takes on a different character when you think of it as Samus returning to a pirate-infested former home of hers (the whole series gets more depth when you think of the deadly Metroids as part of the Chozo legacy she also is part of), but it doesn't change the game, and heavy-handedly forcing it into the game would be stupid.
Much like it was in MOM.
How much backstory do you guys think we need to know to appreciate the depth of a game's story, and how much is too much?
(not a question of how the story should be executed, btw)
None, none whatsoever. I've always stood by the belief that a good story can help a good game become awesome, but that it can't save a bad game and that a bad story can drag down an awesome game into merely good, and a good or decent one to bad (see: Other M).
Games like Metal Gear Solid, where the story gets so in-depth and ridiculous that it's borderline impossible to play without getting involved in the story, are the antithesis of this. I'm not a particularly big fan of them, but I can't refute that they're good games and good (if confusing and over-the-top) stories.
Games like Mario, however, prove my point - for a game to remain a game, it should have gameplay as its first and (almost) only priority. IF the player needs an excuse to play the game, then, "go rescue the princess" works fine, nothing more is needed (see: Mario, Castle Crashers, Link to the Past's intro). It's when directors and producers want to start integrating story and want to start telling some story they cooked up that things get complicated.
Again, don't get me wrong - there are some REALLY good game storylines and plots out there (Okami, Majora's Mask), it's just that I feel a lot of them are either full of shit (Final Fantasy 7+) or that they really shouldn't be adapted to a game in the first place (movie-to-game transitions).
So what's the happy medium? It's already been mentioned: the Metroid Prime approach, also used by Deus Ex, Morrowind, and Arkham Asylum to great success. Simply keep the backstory and story there, but don't force it on the player. Make the player seek it out. It gives the player a reward for exploring and taking risks to gain new information, and players who don't want that info are free to skip right by it, without hampering their gameplay experience whatsoever.
Other M could have done it - Samus already has an established Scan Visor, used to pull out relevant (or irrelevant) info and trivia from all kinds of terminals, landmarks, and enemies. They already had first-person mode, one button press could have switched you over... but instead, we got in-your-face cutscenes that are unskippable until you finish the game once.
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Ok I get it now. Let's all collectively play dumb. Nobody was down on Metroid Other M since last year when it was announced. The entirety of the internet was ablaze with nothing but anticipation and excitement until their fragile hopes were crushed by that damned Sakamoto when they played the game.
Am I doing this right?
I've never seen a better example of missing the point.
Sarcasm aside, you're ignoring that we aren't talking for a (made-up) group, we're talking as individuals who disagree with your baseless assumption. I was hyped for Other M, and I was disappointed terribly with it. Beyond that I can only tell you what people here in the OCR thread have said, but I make no attempt to speak for them or any other group of people the rest of us have never seen. You're doing the opposite, and projecting your feelings onto many with no cause to do so.
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Separate story from gameplay -- story is done poorly (I'm with Bleck some of the overall concept isn't terrible, it's just executed awkwardly). Gameplay is pretty good, though nothing compared to Super or Prime, of course.
That's part of the problem I think. For a _game_ this has pretty good gameplay. For a _Metroid_ game it's near the bottom of the barrel...but still leaps and bounds better than most other titles.
I can definitely agree with this, I've been thinking the same thing for a while now. This would have been average at best for a normal game, but for a Metroid game with an already-established formula, it's pretty terrible.
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I'm sorry for not realizing that you spoke for everyone else' opinion, Mutericator. You're absolutely right and I apologize.
Heaven forbid that there's enough evidence all around the grapevine to show that my point is indeed the case. No. If Mutericator doesn't fall into that category, than nobody else does, and thus my case is bullshit.
Until you cite a source that actually proves the point that YOU brought up, yes, it is bullshit.
Generally, when I hear complaints about games that are still scoring around 80 in reviews that call the game "bad" I get the impression people have never really played a bad game, or at least not in a very long time.Maybe the complainers don't like the game, which is something I can understand. I try playing a GTA or Halo or Metal Gear Solid and I don't like it. I don't really have the gall to call them bad games, though. Nor do I try to argue with people regarding why I don't like them.
Maybe it's different with a Nintendo franchise though, since almost everyone invariably plays those around here. But I think people should try playing some ACTUAL bad games to gain some perspective on the difference between a game like Other M and a game like, say, Far Cry Vengeance.
I hate to say it, but I expect there was a degree of trying to avoid the "Twilight Princess 8.8" scenario happening again. The "game from the future" bit on Kotaku felt particularly like bullshit.
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reading comprehension
Made-up bullshit, you mean.
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That's because it is a huge fuss being made over nothing. I've just finished my second playthrough, and the game is still great(hard mode ho!).
Most people who are complaining about the game were against giving the game a chance since its announcement last year, so you can pretty much disregard most of the complaints.
Fact is, if you want Ninja Gaiden action in a Metroid setting, then this is your fix.
What? What are you talking about? I was incredibly excited for a Team Ninja Metroid game, and remained pumped until the hands-on articles started coming out in February or so, which pointed out how story-heavy the game was. It just got worse and worse the more I learned, and the game itself was just as bad as I was worried it would be.
Don't make shit up.
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Oh god, yes, this. If you're going to rip off every JRPG ever, at least be thorough (I'm sure the targeting thing was already done in FFVI, six years before Golden fucking Sun).
Even DRAGON QUEST, the poster boy for traditional turn-based JRPG's, fixed this when they rereleased IV and V on the DS.
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Suffice to say that if this game has been on the PS2, Yahtzee would have loved it. He's getting on my nerves at this point, his blatant hatred for the Wii is not that funny.
Too bad that never came up. There was NO Wii bashing here, none. He never once made mention of console inferiority in the video, only how terrible the game is (hint: it would have been terrible on any console, except maybe the Nunchuck issue because that never would have been an option).
From now on when people want to learn what I think of Other M, I'm just going to post a link to this video, because Yahtzee pretty well sums up everything I hate about it.
('Cept maybe the Team Ninja blaming, since, you know, most of that shit wasn't their fault.)
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I disagree with you on two points, but at least we can agree on gameplay!
Honestly, I can't see you budging your opinion on the character development aspect. Moving someone from a long-standing non-character to being a fully three dimensional and fully fledged character is bound to be a rough transition, even for the best of authors and... blah. I know what's really at play here.
Samus Aran is one of the video game heroines that is hardest to find hentai of. Because guys respect her, because she's one of them, or so they think. Raised on the 80s and 90s of having no emotion = awesome and badass, a la terminator and Rambo, only showing the faintest signs of budging when a child or something else helpless comes into play, there's a lot going on there I think. Most people have this image of her and preconceived notions of what it takes to be cool.
Sadly, a lack of emotion isn't cool. It's boring, it's stupid, and it's incredibly scary. Ask anyone that has been through real emotional trauma and hardship - the easier thing to do is switch off completely, it takes real courage to deal with that emotion, take the hits, the freezeups, and the emotional beatings, and continue to trek on.
To me, having her go into a full fledged panic attack and then come out of it rather than go fetal, that endears me to her even more. As someone that's had panic attacks, I know what that's like. Maybe it's something people on the outside can't understand?
And regarding the George Lucas thing.... wow.... That's insulting. To insinuate that I might enjoy the prequel trilogies outside of the spectacle that is episode 3 hurts... I'm just going to leave it at "not the same situation, at all."
*Edit* And YES YOU CAN justify taking 20 years to define something. It's the success of the original metroid and metroid 2, and listening to the fans and feedback and hearing that they want to be a space bounty hunter (wtf is that, even? Has she ever actually gotten a bounty? Does she bring in criminals? Who pays her?) They wanted another game that was built entirely around gameplay and was a throwback to the NES days. And they got it. Super metroid was awesome, but I refuse to go over to the opinion that not having story and characterization injected there makes it "too late" for the series to have them at all. That's a complete pile of bullshit. I can't think of any parallels to that situation because long standing things ALWAYS have drastic changes from beginning to end.
But this ISN'T REAL LIFE. It's a GAME, and I want to PLAY it. Not sit through watching my main character have panic attacks over some enemy I've faced 5 goddamn times.
Look, I don't CARE what's realistic. The point is, this is a drag on the GAME that I came to play, and the cutscenes ruin the experience. Stop trying to justify a retarded cutscene made by some idiot who seems to think we give a damn what Samus thinks. She's there to let us explore a planet, not emote.
It's like trying to justify those terrible laughing scenes in Final Fantasy X, but worse because JRPG's are SUPPOSED to have heavy stories. Platformers, Metroidvanias, and action games aren't.
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People bitch about Japanese characters being white haired pretty boys, then they change it and people get mad. What do people want exactly?
Thing is, Dante wasn't a "pretty boy." He had the white hair, sure, but he wasn't some scrawny little teenage punk with a bad attitude problem.
If people want something that isn't normal Dante, I can guarantee it isn't what we're seeing now.
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I haven't gone and fomented your angry fanboy backlash, have I?
Seriously, unless you're going to say something pertinent other than "i'm mad and you're an idiot because i'm mad", you really have no room calling anything I say petty. And while we're on the subject, unless you're going to say something pertinent other than "it's a reboot cuz that's what i say it is", you have no room calling what I say assumptions, either. Bleck brought up a lot things that would be, in light of official word saying so, completely justifiable reasons for this being a continuity reboot (some of them not so much, but hey). Do be a dear and take notes on how to properly discuss a topic with more than one side, would you?
The moment they come out and say "we're starting the whole thing over", it will be a reboot. It has just as much a likelihood of being true as my stance on it being a further prequel laying out the groundwork of the still-after-4-games enigmatic origins of Dante. Until they say that, however, my judgment from what is presented is the aforementioned.
I totally completely wholeheartedly agree and avidly want this to happen. Seriously, no joke.
I pretty much agree with everything Bleck's been saying and you've been ignoring. But there's no point in repeating it if you're going to ignore the problems - it's a reboot, Dante is now some punk kid instead of a professional, and THE WRITER SAID SO. That's good enough for me.
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well now we know who didn't watch the trailer
Too bad I did. Your insistence and assumptions really don't make your petty argument any stronger.
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okay fine i'll discuss
assumption.
2 minutes of trailer.
jesus people.
also if I am right and it takes place before DMC3, THERE WOULDNT BE A SINGLE RECURRING CHARACTER BUT VERGIL AS NONE OF THEM HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED AT THIS POINT.
not really, no. That he has no white pretty-boy hair does not = OMFG HE'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT!
the project was announced by a trailer and has no proper name at all yet.
assumption.
JESUS PEOPLE.
the trailer is a dark opening followed by a cutscene of the main character pwning things.
what shifted exactly?
projects switching creative teams mid-continuity is no stranger to any medium and has never ever required or even implied a reboot by mere nature of the team changing.
WHEEEE ASSUMPTION AND NUMBERS ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO BEING RIGHT
this sounds so ridiculous coming from you y'know?
don't
be
an idiot
Until Ninja Theory or Capcom release information saying that they are rebooting Devil May Cry continuity with this game, it is, by nature of Word of God itself, NOT A REBOOT. The ONLY deduction one can justifiably make from the trailer (THE ONLY THING RELEASED) is that this game takes place chronologically earlier than the other games.
Second opinion: You're an idiot, it's a reboot. You don't turn a badass manly main character into a scrawny Edward Cullen-looking fag without rebooting the series.
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The night they reveal Captain Falcon in Brawl!
Whoa time portal to 2.5 years ago for a second there.
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I've finished Phantasia with Absolute Zero's translation, no problems at all.. So I wouldn't be afraid of it freezing up. And yeah, the Phantasian Production's version has a lot of candy, like replay value (10x exp etc), better in-game fonts. But I seriously doubt it'll ever come out.
If you actually follow the forums, they update rather regularly, at LEAST once a month. I don't think running through the scripts ten thousand times is really necessary, but they are almost on track for the end of the year.
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Super Metroid's soundtrack = amazing. Metroid Prime's soundtrack = amazing as well, especially good old Phendrana Drifts. Mmmm... gonna have to go play through that section again now, methinks.
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Not only that, but I seem to remember certain blips on the map and mini-map in every 2D Metroid that would show you that an item was nearby... Doesn't sound like a compelling argument to me, Ferret.
Also an open question: How is "sequence-breaking" fun? "Oh boy! I figured out how to get to the end boss by skipping this entire section and thus missing out all the extra items, gameplay, content and fun I would have experienced otherwise! I get to play the game MY way!"
Getting through The Legend of Zelda without the sword or going through Final Fantasy with a team of white mages wasn't fun and/or challenging, people. It was lame and you all know it. You're more than welcome to enjoy it(and more power to you I guess), but that doesn't make it any less dumb.
You're dumb. Sequence breaking gets you the crazy stuff EARLY. If I can walk into Brinstar and grab the Super Missiles, two Missile Expansions, and a Reserve Tank with ONE mockball, not to mention getting the Ice Beam with just as little effort, that is AWESOME. The challenge makes it harder in some areas, yeah, but way easier in others (Metroid Prime: Space Boots once you land on Tallon IV, double jump with the visor glitch to get the Missiles before fighting the even that first red-assed boss).
In other words, you're completely missing the point of sequence breaking. It isn't to avoid items, it's to avoid going out of your way to get them (killing bosses and taking the time) in order to get other stuff early. Yes, it can be USED for low-item runs, but that isn't the express point (also low item runs are fun).
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You still follow a general outline of the plot. You have to fight bosses in a certain order, correct?
"Plot" is kind of a loose term here. In terms of following the plot, yes - Ridley takes the Metroid, you go to Zebes, you kill Ridley, you have final battle with Mother Brain over dead Metroid's body. But the bosses don't actually have to be fought in the same order - generally, Kraid comes first, because killing him nets you the Varia Suit, which in turn gets you Speed Boost, Grapple Beam, and Wave Beam (you have to kill Crocomire in there too somewhere). Killing Phantoon in the Wrecked Ship nets you the Gravity Suit, which gets you into Maridia and lets you kill Draygon, netting you the Space Jump (which presumably lets you down to Ridley).
So yes, in terms of complete and total nonlinearity, no, you still have to fight the bosses in the same order (assuming we're following your rule of "no sequence breaking"). Still, it's a hell of a lot less linear than Go To Save Room -> Get told where to go next -> Get led on a perfectly linear path forward regardless -> get to Save Room, repeat.
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Terribly written drama? I think not. The story isn't bad, it's just that the fact that you and other diehard fans believe there should be NO story. I agree, that's what makes it a Metroid game: no story. But the story in this game regardless isn't bad. For a story to be bad it needs to have wtf moments. Other M doesn't have that.
Also, just saying in a 2D game there's no need for invisible walls... you can't compare a 2D game to a 3D game in terms of invisible walls.
And i have no idea what you're talking about... Super Metroid doesn't have free roam, nor does any other Metroid game. You get your upgrades in a fixed order. Before you yell at me, I don't consider sequence breaking as free roam.
"For a story to be bad it needs to have wtf moments."
No. See: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/960554-metroid-other-m/56305892
Also go back and replay Super, you don't get them in a fixed order, even without sequence breaking. YOU might, out of habit, but if you actually look there are the Spazer and X-Ray, both optional upgrades, as well as things like the Ice Beam (which you can get any time after the Speed Boost and before entering Maridia, as far as I remember).
I'm just gonna say to those who are disappointed with/complaining about the story:You're playing a Team Ninja game, what did you expect? Gameplay > everything with them. I never had high hopes for the story and expected the gameplay to be awesome. (I was totally right)
But yeah the story pretty damn weird.
Team Ninja didn't do the writing or anything but the battle system, basically. Nintendo did most of the work and left that little detail to them. And it worked well, don't get me wrong - the battle system has a few kinks it definitely needs to work out, but it's still the strongest point of the game (not saying much, compared to the plot, the linearity, and the generally terrible characters).
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Other M is the successor to Super Metroid, I thought that would be obvious.
Other M is a successor by removing free roam, adding invisible walls EVERYWHERE, and adding unnecessary and terribly written drama? No.
Mutericator, the scene is not being forced on you... what IS being forced on you is an opportunity to take a break, go get some tea or cookies or something. By the time you get back cutscenes should be over, they ain't that long.I mean, taking a break from video games is never a bad thing... it's just a largely undesirable thing.
I... I never thought of it that way. Good call.
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If you don't care then why complain?
Because the scene is being forced on me in order to play the game? Because worse, Sakamoto's flat out stated that he wants to make Metroid more like this permanently?
Yes, Other M doesn't ruin the previous games, aside from the obvious retconning about Samus' attachment to the larva, but if this means there won't be a true successor to Super and Prime (no, not a clone, not Super all over again - a true evolution of the franchise in an appropriate direction, with emphasis on the things Metroid's always been about), then yes, I am going to get rather annoyed over it.
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The only Samus thing I have a bit of an issue with is
SPOILERS:
When she starts crying as Adam leaves to self destruct Sector Zero along with himself. I mean, she's CRYING. Why didn't she cry when Gandrayda, Ghor, or Ruundas died from Dark Samus corruption? I suppose she wouldn't cry for her friends as opposed to Adam, but she didn't even talk.
Don't even say that, Sakamoto will try to get Retro to rerelease Prime 3 with Samus breaking down crying like a wreck every time she kills one of them.
Also anyone trying to rationalize Samus' emotional state needs to realize they are doing EXACTLY what we should NOT be playing Metroid games for: realism and overanalysis. Seriously, the Ridley scene is unbelievably stupid, but what's worse are the people trying to come up with a host of reasons to justify that scene's occurrence. It's a GAME. I am here to play things, not to care about the current emotional state of my character.
Yes, I prefer silent protagonists for this exact reason. I hate it when games take themselves too seriously, and emotionless slates are a great way to handle that.
then you hate oh i don't know, METAL GEAR SOLID, ALL FINAL FANTASY GAMES, HALO, GEARS OF WAR, ALAN WAKE, AND JUST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE PLAYER ADVENTURE OF THE LAST SEVEN YEARS?Yes. Ironically, do you know what Final Fantasy 12, a game that came out 4 years and a console generation ago, had that Other M didn't?
The ability to skip cutscenes.
Metroid: Other M
in General Discussion
Posted
^ That's pretty crazy, honestly. I'm really glad I still have the original copies of all three of those games, so I can try some of those once I'm done with refinishing Echoes and Corruption. Thanks for the heads-up!