SuperiorX
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any update on this coming anytime soon? It's been waaaaay too long!
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I really liked this! Metal Man's theme is another waaaay overmixed song, but I haven't heard it (or any other Mega Man song for that matter) remixed this way with acoustic guitar. I do absolutely love acoustic guitar tracks though, so perhaps I'm a little biased
Someone needs to get on making a whole acoustic Mega Man collab album. That would be awesome, like acoustic guitar, some well executed hand percussion, and some subtle string bass. Nice.Anyway... I don't think I really have much to say about the awesomeness of this track. I do think some light drums (either brushes, or hand percussion) could add a whole new level of depth to the track, but that's just my personal opinon. It stands alone as a pure acoustic guitar track just fine. The ending is a little anti-climatic, the rhythm just kind of fades out, I would have liked to see some kind of climax, but again that's just my personal opinion, it all depends on the direction you want to take the track.
I'm looking forward to the next update!
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How did Snappleman get banned? I did always enjoy his remixes...
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Was anyone else thinking 'Metalman meets Mechanical Man from CC'? I couldn't think of anything else in that beginning part, lol.
I didn't hear any Mechanical Man... (and I grew up on C&C!)... but that would make a killer mash-up song. Metal Man and Command & Conquer. Nice! Maybe I should work on that next
In regards to this song though... I like the rolling synths applied to the main theme, it's pretty catchy. As it stands now I think the song needs to be fleshed out more (more original parts, more variation, etc), as this tune has been remixed to death, but I think it has some potential. Keep on it!
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Ok, so this is just a minor update, but I wanted your guys opinion...
I have two versions of update 15 posted here now, one is identical to my previous update, and for the other I boosted the new bass significantly. I just wanted everyone's opinion on which they think sounds better. I think I'm favoring the boosted bass, it sounds much more defined and present in the song. Thanks again...
Update: Lay Down and Dive v15 (boosted bass)
http://www.box.net/shared/0sx0q7zexy
Update: Lay Down and Dive v15 (original)
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Alright, so now I think this is finally the bass sound I've been looking for. I now have a sweet upright bass which I think fits much, much, better than the electric one. Thanks for the suggestions guys, I ended up finding a demo of Trilogy which I used for the bass. It really rounds out the low end of the song now.
I also adjusted a few volume levels on the main trumpet again, and added a bit more reverb to the wind instruments.
I think this is finally coming together now, tell me what you think!
Update: Lay Down and Dive v15
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Wow, thanks for all the great feedback everyone! It's nice to get some new opinions on here too, I really appreciate it!
The faux-electric bass doesn't cut it IMO, so do me (and yourself) a favor and get a nice free upright bass soundfont and whip out some walking basslines, as those would sound a lot more authentic in this context.Yeah... the new bass is A LOT better than the old one, but I know what you mean. Most of you have said that a nice upright bass would fit best, which is what I've been trying to find, but I haven't had any luck finding a decent soundfont. If anyone knows of (or has) a good upright bass soundfont suitable for jazz, I'd love to know where to find one. That really is still the biggest thing bugging me about the song.
I'm going to do some more digging tonight and hopefully I'll have another update tonight or tomorrow. Thanks again everyone.
For the rest, it is a clean and smooth dive to the depths of the ocean!
hahaha, nice! I'm not sure I deserve that much praise, but I'll take it!Oh, and one last thing... @ Joren de Bruin, your newest Chrono Trigger mix, 'Corrupter of Time' is amazing, I love it!
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Alright, so this is a rather significant update...
I think I finally found an adequate bass sample, so I replaced the weak muted bass I had in there before with a nice plucked electric bass that it a lot more powerful and brings quite a bit more to the track than the old sample.
I also overhauled the dynamics completely. The major areas I worked on were the piano, which no longer sounds quite as stiff as it did before. I'll admit it's still not perfect, but it sounds a lot better. All the wind instruments' dynamics and reverb were also modified to fill out the piece and to give it more variation.
More volume levels than I can remember were changed throughout the song to just make everything more cohesive. I've also panned the instruments appropriately... trumpet section is oriented slight left, low brass mostly centered behind trumpets, saxes and piano are slight right.
I've decided I really don't want to add any more sections into the song, I'm quite content with the structure of the song as it is.... so now I finally think this is nearing completion!
Update 11: Lay Down and Dive v.14
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Whoa, I just saw that you already replied too Proto...
Yeah the piano still hasn't been touched since the last update, so I know that still needs fixing
-some of your wind writing is, well, just WEIRD. By that I mean it's very disjointed. To understand what I mean, try converting the wind parts you have now into sheet music and think about playing them as an instrumentalist - I bet it isn't something that you would normally see.
Which wind parts are you referring to exactly? I can't seem to pinpoint what sounds disjointed.
Thanks again for the feedback guys!
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What happened to:I think I'm about ready to submit to OCR (wish me luck!),
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PrototypeRaptor and I laid down the heat down there and scared him a little (all for the better, though; look what he's got now). Besides, do you have any idea how often I said those ill fated words about my own remix? I'd say about 5 or 6 times...Haha, yeah pretty much. I kept telling myself that I thought the song was finished, but then I kept finding more things to fix and you guys pointed out some really good issues. I think I was just burning myself out with working on it constantly too... coming back to it now after it sat for about 3 weeks has really helped.
That bass... it is so weak right now I can't physically hear it. I hear something that may be trying to be a bass, but at the moment it just distracts from the music.Yeah the bass is really ticking me off. I can't get it to sound the way I want. I don't know if I just need to try more samples (I've already sifted through at least 20 different ones) or just mess with the EQ until I can get a more pronounced sound.
And yeah the panning and pitch are the other main areas I want to work on. Right now there isn't much panning at all with the instruments, so that I need to fix once I get around to it. I'm pretty familiar with a big band layout, so it's just a matter of actually doing it. And yeah I'm working on some pitch bends/modulation to make the samples sound more real. We'll see.
I should have another update next week addressing these issues.
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I know it's been the better part of the month since I've updated this, but I've been caught up with other things that I haven't really been able to work on this in the past 3 weeks or so... but today I bring you another (somewhat minor) update...
I've beefed up the sound quite a bit, I've added in a lot more lower brass and saxophones to give the piece more depth and volume. I added a significant amount of reverb and played with the dynamics on the (new) trombone hits and trumpet sections to accentuate certain parts of the song and to reduce the grinding vibrato that was natural on the end of the trumpet notes. Although I really didn't change all that much yet, I think the added instrumentation really helps the "thinness" that the song was criticized for before.
I still haven't touched the piano or bass yet, but I'll get to that eventually. I'm also playing around with the idea of adding in a nice little drum solo section in the middle of the song, but we'll see.
Tell me what you think of instrumentation changes thus far! Thanks.
Update 10: Lay Down and Dive v.10
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Thanks, both of you, that was some much needed feedback...
Alright, I'm going to be brutally honest here...this still needs a lot of work. Sorry, but it's the truth.You keep making minor adjustments, but it doesn't need minor things, it needs a major overhaul.
Yeah... I know.... I think I just kept making minor adjustments because I was working on this thing every day and I was just getting frustrated because I couldn't get things to go the way I wanted them. I haven't touched it in about a week now, so I'm feeling much more eager to work on it again.
Major issues (as you both pointed out) is that the mix is too thin. I agree, there is nowhere enough low brass. And yes Gario there is a small woodwind section, but it is just that, small. I need to add more sax countermelody action in there.
Understandably, finding good instrument samples is a very difficult thing to doBig band is extremely difficult to write for, believe me, I knowHaha...yeah. I've come to terms with this too. Although, I think the samples I have are the best sounding brass samples I've ever come across, they really do pale in comparison to the real thing. Especially since earlier today I was listening to some Benny Goodman, and the the song you posted PrototypeReactor...
...which got me to thinking that I might just overhaul the whole piece and try to do some live recording. I'm thinking a collab might be necessary, if you are still interested Proto! I can play a mean screaming trumpet, and I have access to a tenor saxophone player (although he's really busy, so the sax might have to stay sampled), you said you played bone (which I've been having issues trying to get the bone samples to sound the way I want anyhow), and piano, bass, and drums can stay as-is (after some dynamic treatment for the piano, as everyone has pointed out). I think I'm going to see what I can write this next coming week or so and see how it sounds with the current arrangement, but I'm really thinking a live collab is going to be the way to go. I'm going to need to buy a nice microphone though, cause I've got nothing for recording now (which is what was holding me back on going live the whole time anyway). Let me know if you are still interested.
The mix currently sounds like it has very little reverb. Now I tend to add too MUCH in my instrument sampled music, but the instruments here are not filling the 'room' very well, at the moment. Again, you may be going for the night club effect, but it isn't enough even for that..Yeah, that really is the biggest thing I have a problem with, is the overall feel. The whole song is to thin. More reverb, a beefier arrangement, more counter-melodies.
It's a good idea (Jazz up the Dive meister)I'm really suprised no one has 'jazzed up the Dive meister' before
. Everytime I hear the theme, I think that it just screams jazz remix!(and for the record I like the stick count in...)Ha!
Victory! The sticks stay!Thanks again for all the feedback! You were both a great help. I think I have a much better feel for what needs to be done now. I'm going to see how things go with writing with the current samples over the next week or so...
Until then!
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Nice.
I like the changes a lot, I haven't listened since v2.0 and I think the intro sounds a lot better (the added reverb/echo was a nice touch) and the transitions are a lot smoother (2:32, 3:11 especially). I wasn't expecting the note change at 2:23 on the synths since I've been listening to 2.0 so much, but I like it, it adds some needed differences with the melody. The added reverb throughout the synth also adds a nice layer of depth to the track.
The only thing I can really complain about is what evktalo pointed out. Towards the end (around 4:41 I believe) the bass drum just doesn't seem to fit, it kind of throws off the rhythm. I also agree that mixing up the beat is a good idea, but maybe keep something dropping a steady downbeat and then use another drum/percussion to mix things up.
Other than that, it's a great improvement over 2.0! Good job!
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Ok, so after going back through and listening to my Fine Tuning 2 update, I kinda realized what I changed sucked. The low brass just made the intro part rather muddy, and the reverb on the piano didn't help much either.
So in this update, I basically went back to my first Fine Tuning update (version D6), and just tweaked that a very little bit. Pretty much all I did was redo the transitional section from 2:17-2:29 because it kept bothering me. It sounds a lot cleaner now and transitions nicer into the improv section.
Now I think I'm done.
Update 8:
http://www.box.net/shared/gemnu3j4kb
P.S. Oh I particularly liked the new OCRemix homepage for today too
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The horns sound terrible. I know it's hard to sample that but with jazz it just has to be the real thing. As a horn player and jazz fan, I find this painful to listen to.
Yeah, I'm a trumpet player as well and nothing is a substitute for the real thing, but I don't have the quality microphone to due justice for a horn recording... I thought the samples sounded pretty damn good though, by far the best brass samples I've ever come across.
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It seems like you've tweaked a little something that ended up changing everything...
Can't point exactly why, but it feels different now. It has lost some of the warmth it has before.
Yeah, I still have the old copy (obviously). I was just trying to mess around with stuff to try to make some of the changes Rozovian suggested. The more I listen to it, I think I still like version D6 the best. That's probably going to be the one I end up submitting unless I go back and change it some more.
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Ok, so another minor update:
Here I raised the reverb on the piano to attempt to dampen the sound, to not make it so dry in parts. I also adjusted the bass a bit, and added in some faint low brass accents to attempt to accentuate the bass melody. I think it worked. I messed with the panning on the hihats as well, but I don't think it's very noticeable. I'm pretty sure this is how I'm going to leave the track before I submit.
Update 7:
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And as a Megaman fan, I thank you for such wonderful tribute.
Well thanks! I'm glad you like it so much, now I just hope the judges will!
The piano sounds a bit weak and really dryBass seems a bit dull, could sue some EQ work or a different sample to I can actually hear the bassline melody, not just the rhythm.
Yeah I agree... I added a little more reverb to the piano to dampen the sound. For most of the song the piano is filler, until the improv section at the end, so I guess I didn't want it to stand out to much. For the bass, yeah I can't seem to get it quite how I wanted it. I wanted it a little more prominent but not too overpowering. I've tried messing with the EQ a bit and I think it sounds a little better now (I'll have to re-post an update soon). I think I'm going to add in a little more lower brass to accentuate the bass melody.
The count-in and sticks didn't sound good, consider starting the track with the drum intro.Awww... but I like the count-in and sticks
heh, I'm probably going to leave those in anyway. Thanks a lot for the feedback though, it's a great help. -
Ok, well this isn't anything structurally different with this update. It's mainly all 'fine tuning':
- I raised the master volume for the whole track, cause it was a little quiet, when I was comparing it to other songs.
- I lowered the volume for the improv section (2:30 - 3:05) to make more of a contrast between the preceding and latter parts.
- I lowered the reverb on the trumpets a bit, cause they were a bit too echoey, given the environment I was trying to emulate.
- I also boosted the bass just a bit throughout the entire track.
- I also fixed a few troublesome trumpet notes that were clashing between 2:17 - 2:29
I'm kind of at a loss with what else to do with this. I didn't want to fine tune it to much because then it would kind of lose that live feel I was trying to give to the song. I don't want it sound like a studio recording, I was going for a live jazz/big band feel set in a small, dark nightclub. Hence why the whole track has a kind of 'fuzzy' feel to it.
I think I'm about ready to submit to OCR (wish me luck!), unless anyone has any last minute suggestions. Tell me what you think! Thanks again.
Update 6: Superior X - Lay Down and Dive (MM4 Dive Man)
- I raised the master volume for the whole track, cause it was a little quiet, when I was comparing it to other songs.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone! I appreciate it!
@ZealPath, yeah I though the ending fit perfectly
The only real complain I have, is that it seems the main part repeats itself a little too often.
Maybe you could had another variation mid-song to diversify your piece.
Yeah, I had been thinking that at times too... I never really repeat the same melody twice, there are always at least some variations on the theme to try to keep it fresh. I might mix up some of the transitions though to give it some more variety, we'll see.
Hopefully I'll have some of the fine tuning posted up by early next week.
Thanks again everyone.
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Update:
Alright so I've been working on this a lot the past week. Structurally the song is where I (think) want it to be. I added a little 'chill out' section with some piano and trombone accompaniment that leads up to the finale of the song, as well as a cheesy intro part that I like nonetheless. I think it really helps give it that real live jazz band feel that I am trying to give to the song.
Basically now I just want to go through and do a lot of fine tuning. Volume levels, dynamics, intonation, and what not, to get everything to blend well together and sound appropriate.
Once I finish polishing it up, I'm going to attempt to submit it here, so if anyone has any advice I'd greatly appreciate it. I haven't really submitted anything serious to OCR so I'm not quite sure the best way to go around doing it, other than just submitting and hoping for the best.
Tell me what you think everyone! Thanks.
Update 5:
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@ SuperiorX: yeah, thats me
I was gonna credit the vox to some crazy pseudonym, but nah... its me.I thought it was you!
Again, awesome album. I really like how you created a story and had it flow through each song. I know that's what you did with the original Mega Ran album also, but Mega Ran 9 seemed to take that to a new level, it seemed to fit together a lot more seamlessly. Definitely good stuff, I plan on picking up the full CD now that's out.
Keep it up!
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I like this one a lot! The well-executed trombone parts really adds a nice level of depth to the piece! At first I wasn't sure how guitar and trombone would work together, but it sounds great!
We need to have some more OCR songs with brass!
Proto Man/Gemini Man Jazz Arrangement
in Post Your Game ReMixes!
Posted
I liked the idea of this song quite a bit. I'm a BIG fan of jazz arrangements, so I was immediately excited when I read Protoman/Gemin Man jazz arrangement!
However, I'll echo some of the below comments... the first two minutes of the song sound very very busy. Some instruments are much to loud then they need to be, while others are hidden in the background. I don't believe this is any fault of the performance, but instead the recording. It does sound like this was recorded on just one mic (albeit a very poor one at that). The sound quality overall is poor and muffled, but from what I can hear the instrumentation and arrangement is stellar; I definitely enjoy it... especially when the Gemini Man section kicks in, everything really starts rocking. Jazz is supposed to be very liberal and free flowing, so I really enjoyed the solo sections and arrangement (although I really didn't even think it was that liberal of an interpretation in the first place, so I don't know what these other guys are complaining about).
The ending was a little weak, but I don't think it takes much away from the song as a whole...
Definitely get this thing mastered and/or re-recorded. Particularly try to get every instrument on it's own mic, so you can make mixing the channels a lot easier. If you can get a good quality recording of this I can't see why it wouldn't be posted here.
Really great job! I hope we'll hear a cleaned up version of this song soon, it REALLY deserves it!