Neifion
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Posts posted by Neifion
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I was listening to the mostly wonderful I Am Setsuna soundtrack yesterday and had to double-take when I heard some startling similarities to "You're Not Alone" from FFIX in two tracks. There's way too much in common with the melodies for quite a long duration. Maybe it's not outright plagiarism, but it's definitely not original enough to get much merit in my book. Granted, since both games belong to Square, I don't think anyone will be getting sued, but I kind of wish the composer wouldn't have honed so close to that well-known theme.
Similarity 1:
https://youtu.be/h9GpuGO3xyo?t=13shttps://youtu.be/ptVJHAVVnLE?list=PLC5JSvEMh3aYEcU67xeXZpuTwyga9Ojg5&t=8s
Similarity 2:
https://youtu.be/uB7GM1hJ0mU?t=16s
https://youtu.be/h9GpuGO3xyo?t=1m22s
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I think, like Skrypnyk said, there's always someone out there who can do everything. So might as well learn both. I don't think it matters which you focus on first. I learned production at the same time I learned composition, I'm still learning both, and I will until the day I drop dead probably. And I also mix my music as I compose, rather than mix at the end, which I now know is not the way everyone works, but some do.
Come to think of it, I don't really think about production much anymore. I used to agonize over EQ, compression, reverb, etc. Now I don't EQ at all unless there's a harsh high frequency or muddy bass frequency. I completely stopped compressing and now I just focus on the dynamics as I perform. I add a touch of simple reverb and that's it. I don't know if it's because I got so used to production that it's second-nature, or I just don't give a fuck anymore, lol. -
33 minutes ago, Nathan Allen Pinard said:
John WIlliams does have an orchestration team, but yes his sketches are so detailed they only have to worry about piecing it so it's playable. Orchestration sometimes is simply making it so the parts are playable. Even pros have difficult on some instruments with certain intervals and such.
Yes, but I was just pointing out that following your definition of composition - "a basic lead sheet. The melody/lyrics and chords " - John Williams does more than just composition.
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1 hour ago, Nathan Allen Pinard said:
Yes and no. If you are a DIY'er then yeah it could be, however many film scores and video game scores are orchestrated by other people other than the composer that provides "sketches". John Williams is a good example of this, or Danny Elfman.
Also composition to me is a basic lead sheet. The melody/lyrics and chords. With orchestration/arrangement coming in later. Depends on the genre in some cases.
John Williams orchestrates his own stuff. I've seen his handwritten scores for Hook and Jurassic Park, film versions with full orchestra, each section written out. Also, the John Williams Signature Edition scores from Hal Leonard are all orchestrated by him as well.
A better example might be Alan Menken, who just did the basic melodic sketches for The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, etc. on the piano and then had his music arranged and orchestrated into the symphonic expansions heard in the movies. -
This was a recent commission for an anime-tinged piece. Kind of inspired by dark, magical anime like Puella Magi Madoka Magica, Selector Infected WIXXOS, et al. Thanks for listening!
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It's not about destroying possibilities. It's about putting more effort into the things that have a better likelihood to succeed.
Meteo's method: throw everything at everything and hope something sticks.A better method: do your research and focus on the most effective avenues.
Of course you're free to post on Gamedev. AngelCityOutlaw and I were just trying to give some advice based on our own experiences. I'm assuming the OP already knew that "try everything" is an option, otherwise they wouldn't be asking for focused advice. -
I honestly wouldn't bother with G.A.N.G. or music submission sites like Film Music Network (especially ones like that, which make you pay a fee every time you submit for a job). Also, just because you live in rural Utah doesn't mean you should give up on looking up filmmakers/game developers in your state. Check out some of the university film and programming/game design deparments; many of the students in those programs need music for their projects. They may not pay well (or at all), but at least you've got something for your reel and if by some chance they do make it somewhere down the road, chances are they'll look up somebody they worked with rather than a Joe Schmoe on the internet. You can also look up game jams in your area or local film festivals. Hell, you've got the Sundance Film Festival in your very state!
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+1 to everything ACO said. I had pretty much the exact same experience with those types of forums. Your best bet is to network locally and/or try to get out to some events.
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Balanced or not, I just don't think fighting against AI turrets is fun. Basically, I'm like: "Damn it, gotta take out this turret." Then once we do, I'm like, "Okay, now I can have fun again."
A good enemy Tracer is a nuisance. Basically a fast-moving turret. But I still have fun playing against her because she's a fast, dynamic, unpredictable bee. -
Feel free to add me:
Neifion#1948 -
Couple of tracks I did for a soon-to-to-released game:
http://kekomusic.net/track/775667/13-one-man-s-trash-tom-vs-the-armies-of-hellhttp://kekomusic.net/track/849310/18-opportunist-tom-vs-the-armies-of-hell
http://kekomusic.net/track/1023010/24-board-of-directors-tom-vs-the-armies-of-hell
Steam page:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/262630/ -
Well, the game is coming out in a couple of days! Is anyone interested in playing together? Going competitive? I'd like to get into the competitive ranking once the system launches, and pre-mades are the way to go there.
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11 minutes ago, Neblix said:
You seem to have gone way off on a tangent here.
This is a topic to help the OP select some new orchestral libraries. You suggested an ensemble library and made a point about it sounding more organic. I disagreed and explained why. Then you disagreed and explained your case further.
If anyone went on a tangent, it was yourself. You broke off and started talking about what professional composers do to save time, what you used to think when you were younger, how your music sounds good to a layperson, etc. I am guilty of responding to the tangent, admittedly.
Even so, I was trying to make a point that you can do more detailed and intricate writing with individual sections versus ensembles, and I think that is an important consideration when deciding between libraries.
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9 hours ago, Neblix said:
When individual sections are put together in a mix, it sounds even less organic.
No it doesn't. Plain and simple. As long as the room noise is minimal, individual sections sound exactly like they're in the same room together. "Intrinsic balance" between musicians can simply be achieved by balancing the sections yourself. It's just like the myth that using samples from different developers can't sound as cohesive as samples from the same developer. It's complete nonsense.
In any case, I think an "organic" sound tends to come from good writing, orchestration, and most importantly, performance over anything else.9 hours ago, Neblix said:Yes, you can't get individual sections with ensembles; but orchestrating for individual sections is very time-consuming and a lot of meticulous effort.
Of course orchestrating for individual sections is more time consuming, but someone who is experienced at it with a great workflow can do it quickly. It just takes practice.
9 hours ago, Neblix said:Professional composers know this and compromise to what gets the job done in a timely manner with the best sound unless they're doing their magnum opus soundtracks where they have time to get all of that proper writing together.
I am a professional composer, I write out and perform every section individually, and I always get the job done in a timely manner. Also, look at the scores of John Williams, James Horner, James Newtwon Howard, Jerry Goldsmith, Thoman Newman, etc. and you won't see "Strings High", "Strings Low", etc. next to the staffs, you'll see "1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Violas...", etc. Even video game composers who write for orchestra, like Austin Wintory, Nobou Uematsu, Yoko Shimamura, and Jeremy Soule, write for individual sections. Whether they consider their soundtracks their "magnum opuses" or not. Yes, I'm sure many orchestral composers sketch things out with ensembles first and then have their assistants or orchestrators expand to individual sections, but I'm also pretty sure the aforementioned composers in particular write the individual sections themselves. And many of the professional composers I know on VI-Control do the same, because they prefer to write that way. Because let's face it; you can't write the same level of detail with ensembles as you can with individual sections. Journey, Skyrim, Ori and the Blind Forest; none of those could have been written with ensembles. The contrapuntal writing that is so key to the beautiful harmonic complexity of those soundtracks is only possible because the individual sections can take on all those separate but interwoven lines.
Look, I'm not saying everyone who writes for orchestra has to use individual sections. But seeing as the OP came from an old library with individual sections (EWQLSO) and was looking into a set of new libraries with individual sections (CineSamples CORE), then it seems clear that he may want to write for individual sections.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding here as well, but it sounds to me like he simply wants better samples to make better-sounding music. It's a big game, could be played by a lot of people, so he wants it to sound the best with what he can afford.
I spent a lot of money on libraries because I wanted them. I never went into a purchase thinking that I'd ever make any money back from using them. If that's the OP's intent, then I'd say that is not a good way of going about it.
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1 hour ago, AngelCityOutlaw said:
Anyway, I'm currently thinking about this:
CineBrass
CineWinds
Cinematic Strings 2That sounds like a solid lineup to me. Despite what pretty much everyone has said about CineWinds, I still stand by my viewpoint that CineWinds is excellent. Here are some examples of their use in my own compositions:
http://kekomusic.net/track/723675/the-forgotten-weir-mysterious-dark-forest-theme?feature_id=153947
https://soundcloud.com/kekopro/lingering-whisper#t=1:32
http://kekomusic.net/track/876755/a-world-gone
For strings, as lovely as CS2 sounds, I can't recommend Sable and Mural enough. Yes, they are expensive, but CS2 is quite limited in articulations, no spiccato, doesn't have sordino, and no portamento or bow change legato (only fingered legato). Down the road you might find yourself wanting to use other articulations besides the basic longs and shorts, and you'll end up getting another library anyway. It all depends on what you need. We don't know what you're going to write and which articulations you'll need. If you know that arco, pizz, stacc, spicc, trem, and trills are all you're ever going to need, CS2 is going to cover that. Maybe you'd like to have muted strings, portamento, sul ponticello, sul tasto, flautando, harmonics, col legno. Then CS2 won't be enough.
My suggestion would be to pick up Mural Vol. 1: http://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/instruments/strings/symphonic-strings-volume-1/
It's $599 regular (if you're a student, you can get a 30% discount with no restrictions). It has a gorgeous sound and a good set of basic articulations to get you started. Down the road, you can pick up Vol. 2 and you'll get even more articulations (plus bow change and portamento legato). You can add gradually based on what you can afford and what you need. Or, just stick with Vol. 1 if you never need anything else. -
Out of curiosity, what is your budget?
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On 5/19/2016 at 10:59 AM, 2r1t said:
Wow, so glad to see someone else loves The Jedi Steps! The mystery, the swelling emotion, the sense of conclusion - too good. Nice work recreating it!
Thank you! It is a great cue, and I learned a lot from mocking it up.
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Pre-recorded as sections does not make it sound more organic. When you have the flutes, oboes, and clarinets all switching dynamic layers at exactly the same time, it sounds fake. A good mockup artist can cover up that shortcoming by blending with other patches or libraries and meticulous attention to performance, but it's not any more "organic" than with individual sections. Not to mention you lack the flexibility of having the individual instruments/sections do their own thing, which is pretty much essential in any orchestral writing. You can't have a flute line separate from the clarinets, or have the horns separate from the trumpets (or trombones if you're using the mid patch).
Also, since you're keen on legato, be aware that the legato patches in Albion ONE are very limited. For strings and brass, it's all recorded in octaves except for a "Mid" patch that gives you barely two octaves in the middle range to work with.Honestly though, Spitfire, CineSamples, Berlin, 8DIO; they all sound great if you take the time to learn them. Since pricing is a concern for you, I'd definitely recommend you going for the CineSamples bundle, since Spitfire, Berlin, 8DIO, and VSL are all a lot more expensive. Personally, I use a mix of mostly Spitfire BML, CineSamples, BWW, and Soaring Strings, but I managed it by purchasing them gradually over the years.
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I use CineBrass and CineWinds in my current template and I can say that they're second-to-none when it comes to quality and ease-of-use. Especially CineBrass; the smoothness in the dynamics is amazing. The hall has a great sound (MGM Scoring Stage, where Gone With The Wind, Back To The Future, The Force Awakens were recorded) and many great players (such as Amy Tatum, who did the flutes on the Journey soundtrack).
As to whether or not to go "Pro", that depends. To me, CineBrass Pro is essential because it has the solos. I like writing for solo brass, particularly horn and trumpet, so for me it was a no-brainer. You can get by without CineWinds Pro since it's mostly made up of ethnic and secondary orchestral winds (alto flute, bass clarinet, contrabassoon) but I like having a contrabassoon in my template as well as the option to have the aforementioned winds as well.
As for ease-of-use, it's excellent. As much as I love using Spitfire, CineSamples is hands-down the easiest. Pedal down for legato. Pedal up for shorts. Staccato, tenuto, marcato mapped to velocity. Dynamics mapped to mod wheel. Lovely workflow! -
I like it; very nice and chill.
Not sure if you're looking for feedback, but the only thing from me is the strings from 0:49-1:06 sound very keyboard-y (perhaps that's the intent though, as the song is electronic?) and they seem to struggle with the short run at 0:57 (sounds like sustain patch with slow attack rather than fast/run legato).
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Comments and critique are very much appreciated!
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It's not about having good libraries. Neither is it getting good at said libraries. It's both.
You need good libraries. And then you need to get good at using those libraries.Find an MP3 of a recording you like. Find the sheet music. Study the sheet music. Plop the MP3 into your DAW. Arrange the piece with your samples. A/B the MP3 of the live orchestra with your sample version.
Don't just wiggle the mod wheel for the sake of wiggling the mod wheel. Do it with purpose. Know when to swell and when to fade. Know when to crank up the vibrato and when to back off. Think of it emotionally and not mechanically. Think of yourself as the individual player and feel the emotion.
Also, if you're really serious about "realistic" sounding mockups, don't reach for ensemble libraries (Albion, Symphobia, CineSymphony Lite). When all of the string sections are crossfading dynamics or vibrato at exactly the same time and by the exact same amount, it sounds fake. With individual sections, you can play them in one at a time, and get different performances that blend everything together. Don't get me wrong; ensemble libraries have their place and can be useful, but usually in combination with individual sections (layering, adding textures) or for making hybrid/epic/trailer trash stuff. If you're aiming to achieve realistic orchestral material though, don't get ensemble libraries by themselves. -
CineBrass is second-to-none, especially the dynamics and legato. Spitfire Brass is beautiful but the horns legato is wonky and the sound isn't as crisp; a bit muddy to my ears.
Overwatch
in General Discussion
Posted
Don't forget Winston. He's literally a Widowmaker delete button, especially since he can jump to wherever she grapples.