Uffe von Lauterbach
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Posts posted by Uffe von Lauterbach
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1 hour ago, Hemophiliac said:
Repeated notes don't have consideration to naming a chord. Having repeated notes just means that the sound of that particular spot will sound more like that one note, in this case the Bb is going to stand out much more then the other notes in the chord.
In a vacuum you can call it either. What would really lead it towards having a better answer is the context of the piece and what comes before or after this. Generally you want to name a chord what it's function is supposed to be. Both of these two chord types are subdominants or predominants in function. They want to resolve to a dominant chord.
Assuming this is in Bb minor (since you said Bb is the tonic), it's more likely to analyze this as C half diminished functioning as a iiø7 and then wanting to go to a dominant chord after this like F7 (V7) or Abdim7 (viiø7). Generally traditional theory doesn't really look at sixth chords in terms of function except for augmented sixth chords (which are subdominants). Here is info on augmented sixth chords, and may confuse you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_sixth_chord
Don't worry about naming chords unless it's really important to helping you understand the context of what's going on in the piece. If it sounds good, it doesn't matter what it's chord name or symbol is supposed to be. What I'm saying is don't get hung up on something that's not super important.
Hopefully that doesn't confuse and helps understanding some.
The chord I shared comes first in the composition. The mode is in B♭ Locrian with a flat 2nd, though B♭ minor works here as well. Certain instruments have certain chords or notes. The choir is a B♭aug(sus2). I have three instruments in the bass section. The first is B♭, the second is E♭, and the third, being an octave above the first, is also B♭. The choir then goes to an A♭7 chord. However, because of the basses, it ends up being E♭ minor thirteenth inverted on G♭ (E♭m13\G♭). On the piano, I suppose this could just be condensed into something with just four notes. But I see what you mean about this being analyzed as a C half diminished chord. The context for this is that I'm composing an unofficial Metroid soundtrack, so I'm trying to apply the kinds of chords used from older Metroid music as a way to achieve the sound without relying on synths alone. Your reply has been helpful, though, and I'm glad you were able to help me understand this better.
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I'm trying to understand something about how a chord works. To some degree, I do understand it, but only at a basic level. If a chord has a repeated note, is that repeated note taken into consideration when naming the chord? I'll give an example of what I'm asking and compare it to what I imagine might be the correct answer. So far I haven't found a question like this online, and I may be asking the wrong question. Anyway, here is the chord:
G♭
C
B♭
B♭
E♭
B♭I have a composition where the start has these notes, with the B♭ being the root, and the G♭ being the last note on top. If I have a B♭ at the tonic, or anywhere, really, is it necessary for me to add the others an octave higher? This chord starts in B♭. So is this a C half diminished seventh inverted on B♭ chord (Cm7♭5\B♭)? Or should it be an E♭ minor sixth chord (Em♭6)? This is what's confusing me. I'm hoping this is understandable to someone with more music theory knowledge. Thanks.
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16 hours ago, Hemophiliac said:
He's talking about the chords build upon those scale degrees in the parallel minor key, not the scale. Don't think about the key of F major. He's only talking about the keys of G major and G minor. So each time he shows a chord symbol at the top of the staff he's indicating what chord it is not the key.
So a chord built upon the third scale degree of G minor is Bb major. If you build a chord on the seventh scale degree of G minor you get F major. He's making an assumption about "generic" sound based on his own experiences.
When notes and chords are "borrowed" from relative major and minor keys, it's usually done to change color or add interest. The composer chose to do these things to achieve a sound more interesting than using just G major.
I hope that helps in your understanding.
This is a very good explanation, and I appreciate you answering in a way that isn't confusing for me. The part that confused me about this video is that he uses the G major chord. At least I assume this because it says G and not Gm. So that's partially the reason I got confused as to why he said it was borrowed from the parallel minor key while showing in text "Both borrowed from G minor". But after reading your post, I think I now understand where the B♭(sus2) is coming from. I'm going to go ahead and keep the information you shared so I have a better understanding in case I somehow forget in the future. Thanks again!
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Hello. While the title is upfront, there's a reason I'm stating this. I've recently watched a video made by 8-Bit Music Theory. I'm not very savvy in music theory, but I think I'm at least knowledgeable of it to some degree. At 10:20 of his video, he has the theme of Brinstar play. It goes G, B♭(sus2), G, B♭(sus2). He then says that if this was more generic music like Zelda or Pokemon, the music would be G, then F, making it a major ♭VII rather than ♭III(sus2), and states that they're both borrowed from the parallel key of G minor, even though the chord shows G major. This is what I found about each of those scales, and I'm no music theorist, but it's not making any sense to me.
F major is F, G, A, B♭, C, D, E, F
G major is G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G
G minor is G, A, B♭, C, D, E♭, F, G
I'm trying to figure out why he says ♭VII (F major) ♭III(sus2) (B♭ major?) are from G minor, which F major has B♭ and F natural, G major has B natural and F#, while G minor has B♭, E♭, and F natural in it. Sorry if I'm confusing. I tried to ask in a way that's not confusing, because I'd really like to understand what I'm not currently able to at the moment. Also, I did look up major/minor parallel keys on YouTube, but they don't seem to reflect what is stated in 8-Bit Music Theory's video below. Or maybe they do and I'm just not getting it, obviously.
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17 hours ago, Sockpuppet said:
Honestly I had to slow it down to work it out but to me it sounds like 11/8 (split into 6 then 5).
Cool! Thank you! I counted 11/8, but then there were some parts that broke off into a different time signature, so it was really throwing me off. I thought I even counted 5/8 at one point, but again, it's jumping everywhere. I'd much prefer a single odd time signature rather than one that's most likely moving around often, just because that would simplify things a bit to transcribe. Oh well. I'll have to do my best with this if I can.
14 hours ago, H36T said:This was my thought. I just thought 6/8 then 5/8 alternating but it is hard to tell. Lots of stuff going on that feel really syncopated (to me). Was hard to find the pulse.
I considered 3/4 at one point. I think where the rhythm sort of "slows down" for lack of a better word. Anyway, thank you guys for your help! I really appreciate it.
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This is such a cool track, but I can't figure out what the time signature is, and I've been thinking about transcribing it for quite a while now. I'm not all that great with figuring out odd time signatures. If you know how, could you help me out? Does this track have multiple time signatures?
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I'm trying to come up with a composition where it sounds like you'd be in the sky or floating. I don't want to rely on synths to create this atmosphere, and I don't want to use the whole tone scale, either, since that feels a little generic when it comes to something sounding otherworldly. Are there any other chord progressions that would achieve this feeling? Or perhaps some descriptions like making the notes sound like they're swaying the wind and relying on triplets to create that feeling. Anything would help. Thanks.
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On 10/24/2022 at 3:54 AM, Nase said:
that's a nice name. thought it german because of the family name.
i thought the choir fit nicely because everything before that is pretty synthetic, so it sounds relatively organic in comparison.
if thinking in the greek modes helps you compose that's alright, but there's no rule either saying that you'd have to stick with a mode.
what i'm hearing is what i call something like "dissonant thrash metal guitar riff" mode (because i learned most about it while learning classic metal guitar like metallica or slayer riffs.) it doesn't matter so much if it's a guitar or something else, it's about rhythm and dissonance. strictly thinking in the old diatonic modes isn't necessarily the best for doing good powerful and dark riffs like that - you might find that breaking it up with occasional chromaticism can work wonders. for example, the minor and major second can both sound very good in one riff if they're somehow used well interchangingly - and that's already beyond any of those modes. just something to keep in mind when composing stuff like this. the added freedom can be quite rewarding once you find out what you can do with it.
I don't particularly compose in Greek modes, but moving into something that's not the typical major and minor scales does interest me. This may or may not be the one time I use Locrian mode because it's giving me a lot of trouble, but I'm committed to figuring something out. I'll have to take your word on the chromaticism if that can help out. I've never heard of dissonant thrash metal guitar riff mode or anything like that. I'm still trying to mess around with a melody for the beginning sections. Anyway, thanks for the advice and feedback.
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3 hours ago, Nase said:
no you don't need anything like that, it just has to feel right.
upload a version of the track that shows a full loop. i like the choir stuff btw, sounds good.
this sounds quite ok compositionally, as a boss tune. there's not enough energy in the synth riffs during the first 25 secs and that's more of a sound and mixing problem. but it's not bad man.
boss tracks especially are a great opportunity to go wild and fuck theory. have fun, you're doing good (really.)
but do provide a proper loop. it's all about how the track loops, especially if it's just a minute long.
btw is uffe a real name?
Personally it does feel right to me. I went back and changed it a couple days ago to have it end an Fadd4, so I was having concerns about it. I haven't finished the track, so no loop yet. I was going to continue, but I stopped just to ask this question because I didn't want to have to go back and change things until then. Personally I think in terms of quality, the choir could sound more realistic, but I just have something that sounds too synthetic. Not that I have an issue with it. I haven't come up with a melody quite yet. It's in Locrian mode, so I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to make that work. And yes, Uffe is a real name. It's Danish for wolf.
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7 hours ago, Hemophiliac said:
Ask yourself this: "Does it need to have a cadence?"
It's not a requirement for a loop to have a cadence. Don't be concerned with including something unless you want to or need to (such as a requirement from a director). Your transition at 0:40 works for me.
The thing that I thought was strange was a fade-in at the beginning, doesn't work for me on a boss tune. (Unless that's just that way for WIP purposes).I asked myself that. Even though I thought what I have is fine, it was just something that was bothering me. I asked on Twitter, even tagging the word musicians, but I got no responses. I figured I'd try the one place I know where musicians are at. Thank you for your response. And yes, the fade-in is for WIP purposes. I should've titled it with WIP at the end like I normally do, but I forgot to. I plan on making a beginning section for a scene just before this track starts.
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1 hour ago, Audiomancer said:
I think the sus chord to the major chord at 40 seconds in is good, and sets up the following section nicely. Since it's boss battle music, tension is perfectly acceptable, IMO. The only thing I might add to that section is a percussion buildup that reaches it's climax immediately following the major chord at :40. You have a hit at that point, but perhaps a buildup during the sus chord and major chord would add emphasis? I'm not the most experienced writer, so consider that:)
Thanks for the response. It sounds good to me, too. I'm just wondering if it's acceptable. I was recently hearing about sentence form, ABA form, and then cadence, half cadence, and perfect cadence. I can add a build up just before the next part.
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I'm currently trying to work on a soundtrack, and at first I thought things were going well, but now I'm concerned. None of this has to do with production quality or anything like that. Right now I'm just worried about what's considered a cadence and if I'm going to have to somehow change things, which I'd honestly prefer not to have to. The track below is a boss theme in 5/4 time that doesn't have a melody yet, and I began to realize that none of the sections land on a cadence. It just keeps going, but there will eventually be an ending to the track that will just repeat. There's a choir section that goes from 0:24 - 0:39. The final part of the choir section isn't resolved, either. Is that a half cadence when it reaches 0:39? Is that acceptable so long the track eventually resolves? It just lands into another section at 0:40, and it sounds cool, but I don't know if this is acceptable. I'm trying to create some kind of tension here, so it's an ongoing theme. Like I said, there will be an ending to it, which will then just repeat the track.
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2 hours ago, kenshin055 said:
i would say 75 bpm (maybe not be accurate) play arround 70 and 80 bpm to check if i am right
Thank you. I used to know how to count the BPM, but I forgot how to. I'll try that, but I'm still wondering what the time signature is. The beeping in the background is such an odd thing because it's not in any other Metroid Item/Save Room, but I want to add it.
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I agree about the hi-hat part, but I ended up being more focused on the whole track itself afterwards.
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I don't know if I've got the wrong BPM, what the time signature is, or if it's just a composition with randomly placed notes. I'd like to make a remix of it, but I'm having trouble with the time signature. Could anybody help me out here? Thanks. Also, if this isn't the correct place to put this, I'm sorry.
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Nice to see the trance genre hasn't completely died. The beginning of 1:47 actually made me tear up.
Overall, this remix is pretty emotional sounding, and honestly, it's hard for just any EDM track to just move me the way this one did. The melody and bass compliment each other very well. You did really good here, sir.
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I like the style. At first I wasn't sure, because it sounded a bit too fast with the tempo. Then I remembered that bLiNd did a remix that was probably had a faster BPM. I like the opening ambiance in the beginning. It reminds me of when you first begin your EarthBound adventure. The direction they took with the rhythm is interesting, and Snowman no longer sounds snowy here. I don't think there is a more fitting genre for EarthBound than a rock genre that is also relaxing. I always look forward to hearing EarthBound remixes.
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I love the rick bass sound, and the piano sounds gorgeous. When the Ocean Palace part came in, I was like, "Here we go!" xD I like how all of these blended so well. This sounds beautiful.
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The first minute reminds me of an old track by BT. Most of it reminds me of something out of a Miyazaki film, and some of it reminds me of Chrono Trigger. Very nice soundscape, very relaxing, and subtly sad. Good job.
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I like this more mellow sound. I'm not really a fan of remixes of the Ocarina of Time Lost Woods, but I actually like this.
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It's always nice to hear a Super Smash Bros. remix. I love Final Destination remixes, especially like the section at 2:27. I get chills every time. :D
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Simón Belmondo is sounds classy. Very cool remix, and the style definitely works here.
2:39 and there on is pretty badass.
Trying to Understand Chords
in Music Composition & Production
Posted · Edited by Uffe von Lauterbach
Sorry for the late response. I've actually been looking into more jazzy chords, so it's funny you mentioned it. I'm not super savvy when it comes to music theory, so I've been checking out videos on YouTube since I've posted this topic. I have no intentions of composing jazz or blues music, but the types of chords used in them are very interesting to me at the moment.