Ecco the Dolphin (GG) Remix

[Rozovian]

It's ARGHLOUD! Drop the master compression or volume level a bit, it'll make it easier to hear all the elements in it.

I like the new ca 2:00 melody. Nice work.

The repetitive overall sound and chord progression is hurting the track a bit, tho fans of the series and soundtrack might have less of a problem with that. The piano rhythm in the bg also contribute to the monotony.

One way to break the monotony is to put a lead an octave higher for one of the sections, tho it's of course up to you to decide if it's a good idea. Another would be to break the rhythm. The Moonsong source from Cave Story is pretty repetitive and simplistic, and has a kind'a persistant mood, but DrumUltimA crated a very dynamic track out of that, part of the dynamics come from the breaks at 1:34, 3:21, and 3:43. Naturally, it's not the same style as your piece, but I think there are some things yuou could learn from it. Breaks, yes, but also some things about the drum writing, and altho what Doug used might be a little out of your league for now there's still stuff you can learn about it, like using different rhythms, fills, taking breaks, stuff like that.

Other than that, I don't have much to say about the arrangement. The mixing needs some serious work, but you're still working on the arrangement so let's talk about mixing later.

[Eino Keskitalo]

I think having the intro works. It's a bit rough now; it sounds like it starts from few seconds after the beginning, if you know what I mean. Fade it in a little more carefully, and probably start with filters less bright at the start. I think if it sounds like it's opening up at the start the impression would be good.

It sounds more repetitive than I though it would without the drums, so there's some work to be done there. I agree with Rozovian about the piano, it's kind of stiff rhythmically although it otherwise sounds good. Try to break down the chords, not playing all the same notes at the same beat, and vary the rhythm a little. Also you could vary it from part to another, maybe drop it off for a while and the bring it back.

Continuing to enjoy the mood.

--Eino

[wildfire]

New version time!

http://illusenmage.googlepages.com/Undertow19.5.mp3

I added a couple more solos to the middle and removed the middle piano melody. So now I think the composition is mostly done and so I'm going to focus on the drum track and mixing. I really want to create a strong drum track but I have no idea where to start. I really like intricate rhythms like in "Revival Day Impoetus", "HotStuff" and "ThisValleyRocks" and would love to create something along those lines.

[Rozovian]

Wip run not over yet...

I think Revival Day Impoetus and Hot Stuff would be the best tracks to learn from, of the ones you found. Do note that they're old, so the arrangement and mix quality isn't necessarily even close to where the bar is at today.

Making a strong drum track comes far more from samples and mixing than the from the writing. Really simple ones can be just as awesome as the really intricate ones. I suggest you make a basic one, get the drum sounds to sound good, and then start working on the actual writing of the drums.

The arrangement has improved. It still has a very persistant mood, but it's much better. Those new solos and melodic modifications are a great addition. The sounds have a part in the mood, so by mixing those, replacing some, the mood should get a bit more dynamic.

I already caught myself feeling the groove of the drums (in the 0:43+ section), so you've obviously learned something about drum writing. Good luck working on it.

btw, there's some weird noises towards the end, around 3:40. Either you've got some noise in the file, or it's the swan song of my headphones.

[wildfire]

New version is now up!

http://illusenmage.googlepages.com/Undertow20.5.mp3

I added some bells to replace the piano I removed. Still trying to come up with some good drum beats so that will be the next thing I work on.

[Rozovian]

Bells are pretty. I've heard the rest so much that I'm getting tired of it. No offense.

The synths are a bit uninteresting, not just because I've heard them before . I suggest you take a backup and then start screwing with some random presets to see what sounds work. I reset a lot of synths in one of my works in progress, and the rest was surprisingly interesting. I recommend it. Just don't touch the bells or the background thing that's filtering up and down.

Circa 2:00, eastern feel. Works wonderfully. Nice melody writing, you're getting better at that stuff. backing rhythm around 2:45 could need some minor tweaks to match the lead there.

It's grand climax is messy and cluttered. There's too many instruments, and they're not supporting each other as they should. Also, the pad get pretty shrill, you might want to rethink the octave you put it in, as well as its cutoff.

Nice stuff at the end. Definitely an improvement.

So, drums next. Make sure to vary the rhythm without making it shizofrenic (shizofrenic might suit a track, but not this one imo). And humanize velocities. Those snare rolls you've got here are pretty mechanical, if you use anything like them on the new drums, make sure to keep velocities human...ish...-ized.

Good luck.

[Eino Keskitalo]

Just quick comments. Good job switching the piano to the bells. The piece sounds a lot more interesting rhythmically now! Also the new melodies, and the bells in the end, good stuff! I'm happy to hear this update.

--Eino

[wildfire]

the new link is here: http://illusenmage.googlepages.com/Undertow21.mp3

i forgot that i uploaded a newer version and deleted the older one, so i forgot to post the new link. happy listening!

[Rozovian]

Lead is a bit loud.

J3, what do you mean _too_ chill? It's got dynamics enough. See 1:02. You've got a point about 2:57 however. Illusen, try dropping the drums at 2:55. Should make the transition a little more dynamic.

One problem... you don't seem to know how to end a melody, e.g. 1:59. You don't always have to have stuff going on. Considering this isn't a high-energy remix, you should take advantage of that and leave out the drums completely in some place, drop out the leads, just let the backing hold the track together in some places. The 1:59 area with the solo would probably benefit from being cut soft before starting to rise again.

Upon another listen, I find that the lead isn't far from ARGHLOUD. Drop it. Seriously. It could probably lose 5 dB and still cut through (okay, that's a guess, but it _is_ too loud).

1:10, 2:02 soft sections are my favorite parts of the track. Perhaps it's the leads that are just too rich and sharp for my tastes. Take a backup, try some other leads. You might find something else that you like.

Ending area is cluttered like crazy. Volume plays a big role there, of course, but you might have to drop one or two tracks from it, just to make it less messy. The clutter is actually bringing down the dynamics of it a bit.

Another update, another set of issues. But you're doing great. Still got some ways to go, but you're doing fine. Good luck.

[wildfire]

After a ridiculously long time not working on this wip, I started up again recently, after spending copious amounts of time listening to the Sega CD Ecco soundtracks (by Spencer Nilsen) and I want to incorporate some themes from these songs into mine. I like all the pieces I've put in, but I can't seem to blend them all together very well. I'd love to collab with someone using my materials, if there's anyone who's interested. Otherwise, feedback is great too! I have the source file (.flp) packaged with the mp3, feel free to do what you want with it, all I ask is that you don't claim it as 100% your own work. Thanks!

http://illusenmage.googlepages.com/Undertow22.rar

[halc]

oh wow

you need to use effects

edit: this is as basic as it gets - http://flstudio.image-line.com/help/html/effects_plugins.htm

this is actually pretty good for having virtually no effects whatsoever.. but you absolutely must learn to do this if you want to get anywhere in flstudio.

replacing that drumsynth with some actual drum samples and giving the patters some more variation would be a good idea. sytrus use is a bit excessive.. i would recommend familiarizing yourself with some different instruments.

if you want, contact me via pm and i can help you out with some good samples/soundfonts and vst plugins.

[wildfire]

Hi again! It's me (illusen) under a new name. I know my updates are few and far between, but I finally have enough free time to get some good work done. I've updated my WIP a little, but there's still no drum track, cause I have yet to come up with anything. I also upped the tempo and sped it up a little about halfway thru.

The mix now includes:

new machine from ecco: tides of time (game gear) @ 0:00

dark realm from ecco: tides of time (genesis) @ 1:20

epilogue from ecco: defender of the future @ 3:25

Any suggestions/feedback is greatly appreciated!

Here's the mp3 link:

http://rapidshare.com/files/367391009/Undertow_24.0.mp3

And if anyone wants to take a stab at the drum track or whatever, here's the flp:

http://rapidshare.com/files/367391008/Undertow_24.flp

[wildfire]

New WIP time!

Added some glitch effects, a few midi drum tracks, and various other tweaks and the like.

Enjoy and comment!

[Monobrow]

I'm just gonna paste what I said in IRC:

<+Monobrow> listening wildfire

<+Monobrow> lead is a bit loud

<+Monobrow> or maybe just not subdued enough for the first minute or so

<+Monobrow> synths etc. could use some volume automation

<OCRE>

<OCRE> efiros

<OCRE> sefiross&**

<Sir_Arek> SEPHIDHFIORHIOOSSSS

<+Monobrow> pretty background synths, drums very minimal, waiting for you to step up the beat

<Sir_Arek> STEP UP

<Sir_Arek> THE BEAT

<+Monobrow> what program do you use

<Sir_Arek> BABABABABDUDMDUDMDUMDUDMBAUDUDM

<Sir_Arek> i am somehow today channeling monos other internet persona

<Sir_Arek> and im rather enjoying it

<OCRE> i have decided

<+Monobrow> some nice solos, but the synth itself is kinda boring, automations, portamento, etc. etc. etc. et.c

<+Monobrow> did I even spell portomento

<+Monobrow> portalmentos

<OCRE> oh hi mono

<Sir_Arek> PORTABEL

<Sir_Arek> O

<+Monobrow> wildfire, did you already go to bed lol

<OCRE> portmanteau?

<+sixto> some nice portabella

<Sir_Arek> ill port your bella

<Sir_Arek> if you know what i mean

<jeffball> pornamento

<+chthonic> portamento

<+chthonic> you guys sure suck at spelling

<+Monobrow> pornamen

<jeffball> porn a man

<OCRE> how dare you

<+Monobrow> well I GUESS I SPEELED IT RIGHT THE FIST TIME

[Rozovian]

Some random track-related thoughts:

Yep, lead is too loud, and I'm not sure that harsh sound fits the rest of the soundscape. 1:42 a thin high-range synth dueling with a thick mid-range one? Needs to be balanced. 2:20 note clash. Check the volumes on them all, leads and bass are too loud, drums not loud enough. Glitchy lead in the second half is cool, but feels a bit too thin. For fixing things related to thickness/thin...ness... use EQ, the synth's settings, layering, overdrive and similar effects (subtly). Fat is in the mid range, clarity in the high range, and punch in the low range. EQ according to your needs and the available frequencies.

I agree that the lead gets boring towards the end, needs to feel more expressive. Can be done in the suggested ways, as well as with syncopation, pulse width changes via envelope or automation, etc.. Listen to some random ocr tracks from ppl that do leads well, try to figure out how they do it.

Also, the transcript better not be from #ocrwip.

This track has come a long way. Still stuff to improve tho.