PrototypeRaptor Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Alright, so I've come to realize that it's not necessarily the samples that make a mix sound good - it's the production you put on it. However, I'm having trouble finding specifics about what I want. The Ozone mastering pdf had some answers, but I want to know just a bit more. I know about the bass region - cut the 300s to remove mud, roll off below 30hz if too much sub, 120ish is the "oomph" region, etc. But I have no ideas about the high region: what do you do with the 2000s, 4000s, etc? Are there some "shrill" zones to make sure to cut or things like that? I'm just wondering because I can get my mix loud enough to compare with professionals (in b4 loudness war) but I can't get it clean enough whilst doing so. (and no, my mix is alright - sounds perfectly clean before mastering.) I've read zircon's great guide among others, I'd just like to have some definitive answers before making another track that kills your ears... any tips would be greatly appreciated - I guess I'll go experiment some more while I wait. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I don't really believe in "rules" like that... it depends on the instruments you are using, and even then, different recordings or samples could call for different EQ. You just have to practice and get your ear better about hearing what's off and what's not. I also have come to learn that it really does have to do with the samples that you have, not the production... I have a folder of kicks and snares that I've made myself called "Ultimate Kicks" and "Ultimate Snares". I can just drop them into the mix and they sound great with basically no processing whatsoever. Some samples are sort of polished as soon as you get them, either due to how they were recorded, or how the developer treated them before sending them out. If you have a specific song I can definitely give you advice on how I would view the frequency range in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 If your mix sounds perfectly clean before mastering it, why are you doing anything to it at all? If all you're trying to do is make the mix louder, EQ can help if you're cutting down on busy frequencies (bass ones especially), because that will allow you to turn the whole mix up without clipping. But that's totally dependent on the mix itself. EQ (even more so than other effects) is very situational -- like zircon said there really aren't any settings you can always apply to make any mix sound better. If you're trying for louder without clipping, compressors and limiters are other tools to reach for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrototypeRaptor Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Well, I suppose I'm being unclear. I can get my mix to be loud enough using compressors and limiters - it just doesn't sound as clean. If I cut the bass as Fray suggests, the high end becomes shrill; if I bring that down then I'm back to square one with the same volume... Using a spectrum analyzer on professional tracks and then mine, the db/rms is around the same, but the track SOUNDS compressed - the professional one doesn't. Is this just a limitation of non-studio compressors/limiters? Or is there something else at play - I'd just like to know how they get that nice full sound that doesn't sound like it's hitting a brickwall when it gets loud. Could it be the workstation? For example, if you use the same VST plugins in say Cubase or Pro tools compared to the same exact plugins in FL or other lower end software will it sound better on the more expensive workstation? Just wondering. To zircon: That depresses me...I was hoping that you could get any sound to sound decent. Sigh. Time to go looking for more samples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunahorum Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 maybe the attack time on your compressor is too low. Anything under 40ms is too little attack and kills the THWAK (on the compressor I use) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Prototype; if you give me the WAV files I can show you exactly how to mix/master it properly, and then maybe you can apply that for future songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palpable Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Prototype; if you give me the WAV files I can show you exactly how to mix/master it properly, and then maybe you can apply that for future songs. I'd love to see something like this as a tutorial, as I've been having some EQ woes myself lately. Just seeing the finished EQ settings for any song would be really useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hale-Bopp Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I'm kind of in the same boat as Protoype, so I'd like to know more about this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Is this just a limitation of non-studio compressors/limiters? Or is there something else at play - I'd just like to know how they get that nice full sound that doesn't sound like it's hitting a brickwall when it gets loud. Yes, to an extent. Better compressors and limiters are better at jacking the volume up more transparently -- for example, the latest version of Sonar has a plugin called Boost11 Peak Limiter that's designed specifically for that purpose. You just set how much gain you want and it figures everything else out for you by analyzing the incoming waveform. Much easier than trying to accomplish the same thing with the comp/limiters that came with previous versions. I imagine there are far more expensive plugins and hardware that do the same thing even better. The other thing to consider is the intent of the plugin itself. Some of them (Blockfish for example) deliberately color the sound. Great for fattening up drums, not great for pushing up the volume of a track without coloring the sound. Usually the more transparent ones will tout themselves as "mastering" plugins, although in some cases I'm sure there's more marketing to that than reality. I don't know much about the plugins that come with other software, but if you suspect they might be holding you back, you can sometimes get trial versions of the more professional plugins. Give them a spin and see if they make your job easier. I'm kind of in the same boat as Protoype, so I'd like to know more about this as well. Your mixes usually sound pretty good, sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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