Nutritious Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 I finally decided to pull this song back out and start working on it again. So, starting from scratch on all of the orchestral parts, I'm rebuilding the song: EDIT (updated): New: http://nutritious3.googlepages.com/CaveStory-Showdown_5.mp3 Old: http://nutritious3.googlepages.com/Cave_Story_Showdown_Old.mp3 Style is kind of a Rock Orchestra type thing I guess, I'm not really sure. I've improved quite a bit since my initial attempt. Currently: -Still issues with guitar timing, but I can fix those with some work -Some areas need more body in the chords Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplinterOfChaos Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 It feels a little tame for may tastes. I just want it to feel harsher in some way. Maybe if the guitar was an octave lower...or maybe a stronger base. Although, my headphones don't do base as well as they (maybe) should, so that might be part as well. More variation might be nice. In the whole minute you're building up, it just doesn't go very many places. I like it, though. I definitely want to know where this one goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escariot Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 ARRANGEMENT / INTERPRETATION [X] Too conservative - sticks too close to the source PRODUCTION [X] Drums have no energy PERSONAL COMMENTS (positive feedback, specifics on checklist criticisms, any other thoughts) I don't like the sound you have for your guitar... I agree that you need a bit more low end... You could also pick the pace up a bit... Not much along the lines of a lead line in the orchestral part leading up to the guitar, so that might be something to look into. Doesn't sound like you're making the most of your horns... Also, look into your drums... Needs better writing and lacks energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnip Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I just got to say nutricious before I listen to the newer version I like your remix's but I always seem to like the pre-edited version way more than the edited ones, hopefully this one will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumUltimA Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Hey man, it's sounding a TON better! way to go!!!! the opening is beautiful, great use of that motif on the glock. The drums still need some of work--if you want to send me a midi i could mess around with them a little bit. I'm also thinking you could use some counterpoint when playing that opening line--right now it's melody and harmony. It would be great to have some new material to play with. The blusey stuff at the end sounds real good too. Huge huge improvement! Good luck with the rest of it~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutritious Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 Thanks for the comments, guys. I've worked some on the guitar tone and drum presence: Trying to run guitar through amp sim to try and get better tone. I can't do anything with the recording - it was made months ago very quickly at my friend's house and can't be redone. That's actually what's causing the problem with the tone, I didn't have my good recording equipment with me, so he had to turn all his effects and gain down to a minimum just to prevent clipping. Drums are beefed in tone a bit now, but not writing. I'm not really sure how to rewrite them to give them better energy while still having it sound "realistic". If it's still no good, let me know and I'll toss you the midi's, Drum. As far as orchestration, I agree that having some counterpoint to break up the repeating progression will be good. ESC - I'll look into that for next version. I can rework the horns some, but I don't want them overpowering things too much. I'm not sure what you mean by not having a lead line before the guitar. I've got some stabs in the upper strings playing some precursors to the main guitar line leading up to it. Maybe it's not enough? I just got to say nutricious before I listen to the newer version I like your remix's but I always seem to like the pre-edited version way more than the edited ones, hopefully this one will be better. Guess he didn't like the edited version better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutritious Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 New version: -Expanded to reworking bridge section -Worked more on guitar tone -More orchestration A few of the guitar clips were recorded in a different location a few weeks after the originals, so the sound is quite different from the original recordings. I'm trying really hard to get both guitar sets to sound as close as possible to the same tone. Hopefully, you won't even be able to tell which parts are which. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplinterOfChaos Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I think it's much better than when I last heard this (towards the beginning of this thread). Most of the repetitiveness is gone. Everything else just feels overall improved. Although, at 1:42, it felt like you started towards one thing, and then went in the other direction suddenly. I think the build-up is a little slow. At 1:33 it sounds like that second guitar you were talking about comes in. I liked it. I don't think you need to make it sound the same. Good job. Keep improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF the Kitsune Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 If I may say so, the first 40 seconds of this second are absolutely bomb-ass. I don't know what it is, but it all just sounds so... perfect. That isn't to say that the entire piece isn't great, though. I don't really mind the guitar change at 1:33 - it adds some nice variety, I think. I gotta agree with the guy up top, but I'm pretty sure he's talking about 1:24 and not 1:42. It sort of builds up to something and then just fades away. Other than that, this song is pretty awesome. Can't wait to hear the entire thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutritious Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 New version: http://nutritious3.googlepages.com/CaveStory-Showdown_5.mp3 -Extended mix to the previous end point -Strings breakdown added -Cleaned up some production -Still figuring out what to do at 1:27 -Might have to clean up the last section some more, things getting pretty crowded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sil Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I was just talking about something similar to this in another thread: The rising bass line sounds great, but maybe there is opportunity to fixate the ostinato on a bass key, in this case C. For example, timpani, cellos, trombones, trumpet (at least one of the trumpets) could all be fixated on the rhythm in C while the horns, violins, guitar, etc. are all doing their own harmonic movement. The contrast between a pedal point and moving upper harmonies can sound really great in most cases. Also, make sure the timpani isn't rising with the harmony ever. It's fine just playing C with some Gs thrown in off the beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutritious Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Thanks for the feedback, Jeremy. Always good to have your critique on orchestral stuff . I was just talking about something similar to this in another thread:The rising bass line sounds great, but maybe there is opportunity to fixate the ostinato on a bass key, in this case C. For example, timpani, cellos, trombones, trumpet (at least one of the trumpets) could all be fixated on the rhythm in C while the horns, violins, guitar, etc. are all doing their own harmonic movement. The contrast between a pedal point and moving upper harmonies can sound really great in most cases. Are you talking about rising bass hits at 1:05 and later at 2:50? I guess I'm a little confused, because currently I already have low strings, trombones, timpani, & trumpets (later in the phrase) playing this same part. Perhaps it's more of a balance issue then? Also, make sure the timpani isn't rising with the harmony ever. It's fine just playing C with some Gs thrown in off the beat. Bleh, noone was supposed to notice this - I was trying to fudge the timpani pitch so it would just follow along rather than be realistic. Oh well, I'll fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sil Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Are you talking about rising bass hits at 1:05 and later at 2:50? I guess I'm a little confused, because currently I already have low strings, trombones, timpani, & trumpets (later in the phrase) playing this same part. Perhaps it's more of a balance issue then? Actually it's just a suggestion in case you wanted to vary up the rising bass pattern in case you feel it's repeating too much. I think in a rock context rather than orchestral it is also used quite a bit, especially considering rpg battle music. Maybe as a bridge to connect sections, create suspense (especially if you used a dominant G harmony instead of C), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutritious Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Actually it's just a suggestion in case you wanted to vary up the rising bass pattern in case you feel it's repeating too much. I think in a rock context rather than orchestral it is also used quite a bit, especially considering rpg battle music. Maybe as a bridge to connect sections, create suspense (especially if you used a dominant G harmony instead of C), etc. Ahh, got it now, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF the Kitsune Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I'm bumping this because I want to see it finished, dammit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplinterOfChaos Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Love the (new?) violins solo at 2:15. Awesome. The second half of the song is much better. I'd say, if you continue to work on ANYTHING, make it the first half. Although that guitar move at 3:13 feels weird to me. Seriously. Finish this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutritious Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 posting from cell phone Thanks for the bump guys . I actually finished this and submitted it a few weeks ago. yeah the violins are new, I felt like a bit of a breakdown was needed to give the listener a break. Thanks for the compliments. I do agree about the guitar, but i needed to change it up somehow so that riff wouldn't get too repetitive. When i'm back from vacation i should be able to post final version If you'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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