The Importance of Music to Humankind

[benprunty]

I wrote an article a while back on the importance of music to humankind, and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion on here.

http://makeshiftmusician.blogspot.com/2008/02/importance-of-music-to-humankind.html

The article deals with human evolution and asks where music fits in. What do you guys think?

[1337 1]

I wrote an article a while back on the importance of music to humankind, and I thought it might make for an interesting discussion on here.

http://makeshiftmusician.blogspot.com/2008/02/importance-of-music-to-humankind.html

The article deals with human evolution and asks where music fits in. What do you guys think?

Very well written. I liked the point about unversiality; I've always thought it was a dumb term (as it is used), as people will always relate different ways to different things.

Well written my friend, and keep us up to date on what you find. Your article invokes many a question, and I think its a good thing. Too often do we sit back and accept things, so its good when someone is willing to get out there and ask questions.

[Sil]

Looks like someone's been reading the philosophy forum.

Actually, emergent behavior, like biological determinism and any system that is infinitely deductive - if you apply it to music, you're in for an endless debate between objectivism and relativism.

[Shadow Wolf]

Slightly off topic, but I've been wondering about something much like this for about a week now. I know studies of the effect of music on people have been done, but has there ever been any extensive scientific study on how certain types of music affect certain parts of the brain? For example, does Beethoven stimulate feelings of happiness, serotonin release, right brain activity? On the other hand, does Metallica stimulate fight or flight responses and adrenaline rush? Being in the medical field I'd be really interested to see how different music, waveforms, and tones affect the human body and nervous system.

[V___]

A point I thought I'd quickly drop in:

Whales will repeat hours-long sequences of clicks and whistles, presumably from memory, that we also label as "songs".

I beleived the 'songs' were actually a language rather than a tune. Check out http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/whales.html Also, not a fan of the football/hunting aurochs metaphor; I'd be more likely to mirror it with fighting for tribe leadership. As for the effect music has on the brain; well.... .... I like a short story by Arthur C Clark, cant remember the name, about a group of aliens (called the overloads) watching humans and trying to understand the 'meaningless tonal patterns' we preoccupy ourselves with.

Personally I dont think the question of what does music provide us is a good question to start with. Its a logical falacy; music can provide us with many things, however we dont know what it is we're looking for. Ultimately I beleive human beings, at a mental level, exist purely to receive stimulus, and music is just one of the many stimuli available. It is however, the most efficient form of auditory stimuli; no conscious analysis or interpretation is required, constant yet changing to keep the stimulation fresh, with the added bonus of memory (genetic included) being triggered for emotional reactions (additional stimulation). Growth of music is based on the fact/concept that repetition reduces enjoyment, and so we need new ways to envoke old emotions (which brings up a snide yet fun discussion as to pop music who listens to it and why). We also exist in the physical however, so music also serves the purpose of communication which allows the body to access further stimulation for other areas of the brain.

TL;DR version: IMO, brain likes music cos its mindless and continuous and stuff.

EDIT: 1. I'm kinda fucked up today, so sorry if I'm not totally coherent

2. ShadowWolf: Theres a book released recently i think called 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks (popular psychologist/author, wrote 'The man who mistook his wife for a hat'). Havnt got a copy yet, but knowing him it'l have some details of the neurochemistry when listening to different types of music (excellent author, great topics, highly recommend 'Anthropologist on Mars' as well)

[benprunty]

Just so we're clear, the article never did ask what music provides us. My question was how it became a unique part of human identity, and by learning the answer I believe we could utilize music in ways that we don't yet fully comprehend.

Regardless, I love your thoughts anyway. Thanks for the feedback. I, too, believe that the main use of music is for direct stimulation of the subconscious emotional parts of our brain.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!

[1337 1]

A point I thought I'd quickly drop in:

I beleived the 'songs' were actually a language rather than a tune. Check out http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/whales.html

I think you will find that the composer is well aware of that. It is implied that while WE as HUMANS may consider it music, whales may not agree, considering it, as you say, a language.

Also, not a fan of the football/hunting aurochs metaphor; I'd be more likely to mirror it with fighting for tribe leadership. As for the effect music has on the brain; well.... .... I like a short story by Arthur C Clark, cant remember the name, about a group of aliens (called the overloads) watching humans and trying to understand the 'meaningless tonal patterns' we preoccupy ourselves with.

Fair enough, although I doubt any of us would be here if we thought music was a bunch of 'meaningless tonal patterns'

Personally I dont think the question of what does music provide us is a good question to start with. Its a logical falacy; music can provide us with many things, however we dont know what it is we're looking for.

Agreed, but perhaps its because the composer is only implying the nature of his goals, not his exact means. Think of it as an outline, not the actual formula.

Ultimately I beleive human beings, at a mental level, exist purely to receive stimulus, and music is just one of the many stimuli available.

I'm guessing your not the religious type then

It is however, the most efficient form of auditory stimuli; no conscious analysis or interpretation is required, constant yet changing to keep the stimulation fresh, with the added bonus of memory (genetic included) being triggered for emotional reactions (additional stimulation). Growth of music is based on the fact/concept that repetition reduces enjoyment, and so we need new ways to envoke old emotions (which brings up a snide yet fun discussion as to pop music who listens to it and why). We also exist in the physical however, so music also serves the purpose of communication which allows the body to access further stimulation for other areas of the brain.

TL;DR version: IMO, brain likes music cos its mindless and continuous and stuff.

EDIT: 1. I'm kinda fucked up today, so sorry if I'm not totally coherent

2. ShadowWolf: Theres a book released recently i think called 'Musicophilia' by Oliver Sacks (popular psychologist/author, wrote 'The man who mistook his wife for a hat'). Havnt got a copy yet, but knowing him it'l have some details of the neurochemistry when listening to different types of music (excellent author, great topics, highly recommend 'Anthropologist on Mars' as well)

Yeah, your quick sounds like mine I hope this post didn't sound like I was picking you apart, I just thought I'd throw in a few things I thought.

[DragonAvenger]

Slightly off topic, but I've been wondering about something much like this for about a week now. I know studies of the effect of music on people have been done, but has there ever been any extensive scientific study on how certain types of music affect certain parts of the brain? For example, does Beethoven stimulate feelings of happiness, serotonin release, right brain activity? On the other hand, does Metallica stimulate fight or flight responses and adrenaline rush? Being in the medical field I'd be really interested to see how different music, waveforms, and tones affect the human body and nervous system.

Not quite what you're looking for, but in here there's a pretty cool article about types of music and how they affect mice going through mazes.

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/programs/program_symp_2_7_98_tchor_.html

Music, Mice, and Mazes

It talks about a having mice listen to either classical or hard rock and their times running through mazes. Long story short, the control mice cut off about 5 minutes, the classical mice cut off about 8 minutes, and the hard rock mice added 20 minutes to their time. The hard rock mice also killed each other the first time he tried the experiment.

[Moseph]

To quote G.K. Chesterton, "Art is the signature of man." Chesterton's point is that even the very earliest humans already displayed an artistic inclination, whereas such a thing is not present in animals. Humans have a natural desire to create things. You could argue from an evolutionary standpoint that this is an expression of a highly developed intellect, or you could could say, as Chesterton does, that humans' artistic bent is derived from the artistry of the God who created them -- either way, a taste for art is a distinguishing characteristic of humans.

Just like visual art is composed of lines and colors arranged on a plane, music is composed of sounds and tones arranged in time. It's a bit more abstract than visual art, but both contain the element of human organization, and I think both may initially have developed from humans' desire both to create things and to organize things. Also, the existence of early flutes seems to imply a relatively advanced musical culture -- one would expect very basic music to consist of only things readily available such as the human voice and whatever percussion devices could be easily cobbled together.