I need a crash course in producing songs. Bad.

[Incinerator Drone]

Yeah yeah I know, there are a billion things to learn, but hear me out. I've been writing music for 10 years or so, so I'm ok with coming up with melodies, arrangements, etc. But most of what I did was in bands and we never got around to recording so I never learned the production side of things. Now that I'm getting into electronic I want to learn, but so far I've just been writing a ton of songs by just putting together drums and synths and whatever and not using additional effects (outside obvious ones I have experience with from guitar like delay, etc.)

If you're interested in my actual song-writing here is something I'm working on at the moment, it's a bit messy since I just started it a few days ago but it works...

http://www.negativeworld.org/mymp3s/Forever.mp3

Anyway, the other day I was in the middle of a song, and my brother (self taught record label owner / producer) walked in and said "what in god's name are you doing to that song? Are you just using the raw sounds?!" and I said "uh... yeah. Cause I don't know what else to do."

So he took over, yada yada yada and 10 minutes later it sounded about 100 times better. I'm not sure exactly what he did since but I think he applied a pre-amp to the whole song, then applied a few effects to the whole song and then a few more to individual tracks. UNFORTUNATELY we aren't always on the best of terms and he is being weird and refusing to give me any help at the moment. But, even knowing that there is a ton to learn, if he can do this in 10 minutes with a handful of effects there has to be a nice starting point, right?

Basically I'm not trying to learn everything overnight, I just need a good solid starting point so my songs don't sound so raw.

Anyone?

[Yoozer]

So he took over, yada yada yada and 10 minutes later it sounded about 100 times better.

Took over with what? What are you using at all to make your music with? If you don't tell, nobody can help.

I'm not sure exactly what he did since but I think he applied a pre-amp to the whole song

Lesson one: get your terminology right. That's not what a preamp does.

http://www.soundonsound.com/information/Glossary.php every time you don't know something - don't guess, search, educate yourself. Make it your habit to dive into Google or Wikipedia to get an answer to what something means. Do keep in mind that people on forums can and will be wrong; while SoS is not the end all be all authority, they've got a better clue of what something means or does.

then applied a few effects to the whole song and then a few more to individual tracks.

If you bothered to save the file/project, then you know the names of the effects.

UNFORTUNATELY we aren't always on the best of terms and he is being weird and refusing to give me any help at the moment.

That's because it takes quite a while to get someone through the drill, especially since you're asking the homebrew 30-minutes workout equivalent of an SAE course.

But, even knowing that there is a ton to learn, if he can do this in 10 minutes with a handful of effects there has to be a nice starting point, right?

No, not right. See, that's the whole thing; one effect is not like the other and by guessing you'll be more likely to ruin things than to make 'm sound better.

First of all, tell us which software/hardware you use; state brand and model.

You're not using raw sounds; you're using dry sounds. The difference is like this:

http://theheartcore.com/music/armin_communication_dull.mp3

http://theheartcore.com/music/armin_communication_shiny.mp3

Both are exactly the same (free) softsynth, it's just that nr. 2 has effects added.

Your software (provided that you don't have some castrated "lite" version or something out of the depths of 1997 when dinosaurs roamed the earth) has built-in effects. Just take one of your dry sounds and try 'm out one by one; it becomes obvious on what they do. At first, consider effects like spices in a meal; if it's all pepper and no steak you screwed up.

Then there are effects that do not appear to do much, or aren't that spectacular - equalizer, compressor. These however are vital tools to make the whole of the song sound coherent. These are harder to figure out, so start by studying your instruments and your effects first.

Throwing a magical do-it-all-plugin over your track does not make it awesome. It may make it louder, but for that the Lord invented the volume button. You can't polish a turd.

So, answer the questions above first

[Incinerator Drone]

Oh sorry, I'm posting at work and kind of have my head in the middle of a billion work projects.

I'm using Orion, and I have an M-Audio 410 firewire external sound card. I have a bunch of software synths, the ones I seem to use the most are the Korg Legacy Collection synths. Drums... honestly not sure, my brother just sent over a ton of folders and they're labeled "01" and on and on. I'd have to check on the rest at home, I have way more VST synths,etc. than I know what to do with, and a few hundred effects.

Hmm, well my brother is very big on using software pre-amps. I can't tell you what they do or don't do, but I am fairly certain he used one on the song. Applied might not be the correct way to look at it.

I did save the song, but I had a massive computer crash and pretty much had to rebuild everything from scratch. Ug. And nah, I mean my brother won't even tell me what he did in the 10 minutes last time. He has this... interesting... philosophy on music which involves wanting me to get a billion other things "wrong" with my life in order before I even think about making music, therefore he won't help me with the music. I put wrong in parenthesis because most average people would not find anything wrong with my life, but my brother is the type with weird views, like for instance... the fact that I work a 9-5 job is "wrong" and counterproductive to realizing my true potential. The fact that I haven't invested money into his record label is "wrong" and proves I'm not serious about music. Etc.

I have been messing around with the effects a bit, but I have so many of them and most of them have no noticable effect... when I use them, and yet I'm certain they have a purpose. Hmm. I think I just need some basic understanding/theory at the moment. I have heard, for instance, that you should probably compress your drums... which is a nice tidbit but I don't understand WHY that is (or if its even true.) And my brother seems to be a huge fan of throwing reverb onto everything (in small doses) but I don't quite grasp why.

And then moving onto equalization... no clue what any of that actually does. Hmm. Maybe I should be asking for suggestions on books to read.

[Moseph]

EQ and compression are probably the best places to start, and there's a lot of stuff available online about it. The good thing is that the principles involved aren't software-specific, so any two EQ units will basically work the same way. Googling will turn up more on the subjects, but these two articles give general overviews of EQ and compression.

[Incinerator Drone]

Hmm, thanks.

See, this is the kind of thing that helps...

'1. Fix with panning. By moving things left or right you can cure many masking problems. But not all. You can't move the kick of bass or vocal too far from the center or the whole mix gets lopsided. But you can move rhythm guitars, synths and percussion way off center and it helps.'

I already kind of figured that out from messing around, but it is good to hear someone else say it.

'2. Fix with EQ. Bass removal from your tracks does wonders. At minimum put a low cut (high pass) filter on every track except the kick and bass (which get their own more extensive treatment).'

Do you agree with that? I'm a bit confused as to how to do it though, I have like... a ton of Waves effects including that Bass EQ he posted in the article, but like I said, not quite sure what most of them do.

'3. Fix by dropping one instrument for part of the mix so both the mask and masked are not playing simultaneously.'

Hmm, yeah, that's kind of obvious advice, though it might not always fit the song to drop it.

Not that I'm, trying to oversimplify a complicated process, but I need SOMEWHERE to start. Little tips like these that are simple things I can actually do without being overwhelmed are nice.

[Yoozer]

I'd have to check on the rest at home, I have way more VST synths,etc. than I know what to do with, and a few hundred effects.

Yes - so dump those you don't use for a month. Having hundreds of plugins is counterproductive.

Hmm, well my brother is very big on using software pre-amps.

A preamp is a hardware box that amplifies a signal so it becomes usable. Whatever he's using, it's probably not a preamp.

the fact that I work a 9-5 job is "wrong" and counterproductive to realizing my true potential.

However, with 9 to 5 it means you don't have to immediately take your guitar to the pawnshop if you ever get into a rough month.

The fact that I haven't invested money into his record label is "wrong" and proves I'm not serious about music. Etc.

No, it proves that you're sane enough not to dump money into harebrained family projects, especially constructs that aren't properly settled after the era of downloading music .

I have been messing around with the effects a bit, but I have so many of them and most of them have no noticable effect... when I use them, and yet I'm certain they have a purpose.

The trick is to eliminate and isolate. From the Legacy set, pick a preset with no chorus, no delay, no reverb, no effects, nothing.

http://www.geocities.jp/webmaster_of_sss/vst/ has a set of plugins with a no-nonsense interface. For the EQ, it's easy - just pick a piece of existing music. Try extreme settings, like removing all the lows or the highs.

For the compressor, it's not that easy, and you could try this plugin here:

http://www.audiodamage.com/downloads/product.php?pid=ADF002

Pick a basic drum loop; preferably something from an older CD (around 1990) if you can borrow it.

Again, the difference is that this one has a set of very straightforward knobs instead of some intricately rendered mockup of a real device with graphs and god-knows-what kind of nonsense.

Change the parameters one by one. First, see what Ratio does. Then, with Ratio turned up for 1/3rd, see what Attack and Release do. Keep comparing.

http://www.thewhippinpost.co.uk/mixing-music/compression-audio-mixing.htm has a bunch of settings; but try for yourself if they're actually useful.

A compressor makes volume peaks less pronounced. It's like you have a sound increasing in volume (eventually passing the Treshold) until (the time between passing the treshold and taking action is the Attack) the compressor says "oh no you don't" and squeezes the volume peak back down (using the Ratio); then it waits (Release time) a while and quits squeezing. Until there's a peak again, and then it repeats the process.

Hmm. I think I just need some basic understanding/theory at the moment. I have heard, for instance, that you should probably compress your drums... which is a nice tidbit but I don't understand WHY that is (or if its even true.)

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so try to not pick up little tidbits of information like this, because they're not byte-sized learning. Quoth the Buddha:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

And my brother seems to be a huge fan of throwing reverb onto everything (in small doses) but I don't quite grasp why.

Reverb is LSD for audio. It smudges and blurs and makes things sound more complex and dense than they actually are.

And then moving onto equalization... no clue what any of that actually does.

Removes or boosts frequencies.

Removing is easy:

- removing low frequencies makes everything sound like listening to iPod earbuds when they're not in your ears - high, chittering noise

- removing high frequencies makes everything sound like you're standing in front of a club and the bouncer has the door closed - all you hear is a muffled thumping of the bass.

The Dutch text (yeah, sorry - this was for another forum) in the bottom graph means "after applying the EQ to the bassline".

Basically your instruments are pieces of a puzzle, and EQ helps to make 'm fit.

As for point 3, dropping instruments; just try to cut down the volume of both when they're playing at the same time. You can do this manually, too.

[PrototypeRaptor]

Basically your instruments are pieces of a puzzle, and EQ helps to make 'm fit.

Best EQ analogy ever. Wish I had thought of it like that way back when I first started - I didn't start to "get" eq until a little while ago...

Back to OP, you really can't learn this stuff through a book. Or quickly. Sure, you can learn compressor settings/eq ranges - but the best/only way is to just experiment.

Music is the only art form that you can't really quantify into words/pictures; you have to train your ears to hear what the effects do. Because the effects will do different things to different sources EVERY TIME.

It really sucks when you're first starting out.

You need to ask yourself if it's worth it to you to spend so much time not writing music and just fiddling with effects - otherwise bring in a professional who has messed around enough to know what does sound good.

[Incinerator Drone]

Well I don't actually even think about most of the plugins I have, I just keep them around for when I can't find anything in what I do use regularly that comes even close to what I want. Like I have one that emulates the sounds of old computers... worthless for most songs I write, but fun when I need some beeps and bloops. And right now with drums and bass I'm pretty much just using the same limited drum set and the same bass plugin (with the same settings) on all of my songs, I know that isn't the ideal longterm but it doesn't really get in the way of what I'm trying to focus on right now which is A. continuing to write music (otherwise I lose motivation) and B. learning the basics of production.

As for effects, outside simple ones like delay, chorus, and reverb I don't even touch them really. I messed around with some of the others when I first got them but for the most part I couldn't figure them out. They either seemed to do nothing... or did very insane things. But I do definitely want to focus on a limited amount of effects right now and just learning how to get them working together.

I'm not sure my brothers label is harebrained per se, he has been running it for 10 years and has like 30 releases out and DJs globally... but from an investment standpoint you're right, things can change, and fast. Considering I "lost" (until things turn around, if ever) a couple thousand in the stock market over the last few years, I'm not exactly secure with the idea of putting money into a small business that may or may not be here 5 or 10 years from now.

Well yeah, of course in the end I can only believe my own ears, but it's good to have a path for trying things out. I already tried the "randomly move levers around on plugins I don't understand" path and that one goes nowhere fast. Somewhere out there are people who probably know a great deal about these things and though there may not be one set path to getting a good sound quality, there are probably tips that help out a lot.

[Incinerator Drone]

Ok to get the basics of EQ, well... here is what my Orion looks like. Is there anything wrong with just using the built-in EQ on the master window to get started? Or should I be doing it with plugins track per track?

[Incinerator Drone]

And I guess overall what I mean by "learn" isn't "I want to produce awesome sounding albums." More like "I want to be able to create songs/demos/whatever that don't sound like total garbage." For now. I'll decide on where to go once I get that far.

Even just basic stuff like... keep all sounds under 0db, ok I do that but then my final cut is way too quiet. So compress that or boost that to get the volume up without clipping and/or turning it into mud, right? I don't know how to do that. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to learn right now. There's a big gap in between sounding like garbage and sounding awesome, and I'm not sure awesome is my goal quite yet. I have to get to mediocre first, and then work from there.

This is where I'm at, but it does sound very, very raw. Dry?

http://www.negativeworld.org/mymp3s/Forever.mp3

[Halt]

Check out these tutorials. Helped me some.

http://www.ocremix.org/info/McVaffe%27s_Video_Game_Music_Remix_Tutorial

http://www.ocremix.org/info/McVaffe%27s_Video_Game_Music_Remix_Tutorial

Jivemaster's is really extensive. You might not want to remix. But, maybe they can give you some tips on what to experiment with.

[zircon]

I also wrote five guides on remixing worth checking out;

http://www.ocremix.org/info/Category:Tutorials

[Incinerator Drone]

Yeah I'm looking through your guides now Zircon. Seems to be a lot of help in there, but also a lot of stuff I don't understand at ALL. Just as a quick example...

'Generally, it's not a bad idea to EQ down the low frequencies of harmony instruments, such as synth pads, strings, choirs, and rhythm guitars. This would be around 20-250 Hz.'

Would I be safe in assuming that, as per that picture I posted earlier, the "low" frequencies are what is labeled the "low mid"? Hmm, and why does high mid have an extra button, "Q"?

I've been reading elsewhere that the built-in equalizers are mostly garbage and you should really get a plugin and use it on each track individually... does that sound about right? I know I have a few EQ plugins, I'll have to take a look when I get home and see what I have.

[Yoozer]

Ok to get the basics of EQ, well... here is what my Orion looks like.

Orion has a parametric equalizer but does not display its line as an actual graph. The page I suggested has a graphic equalizer. Both have their uses.

Imagine a rubber sheet. You poke a ballpoint into it - since it's sharp, you'll get a dip (or peak, depending if you poke downwards or upwards). A graphic equalizer has a set of these pens next to eachother spaced evenly, and you can only move 'm up or down.

Imagine the rubber sheet again. Instead of lots of pens, you have 16 marbles - 4 groups of 4, going from small to big.

Pressing a marble on the rubber sheet will cause a dip or peak, too, but with a rounded top. A parametric equalizer lets you determine the position of the marble (frequency) and how hard you push (gain). If it has a Q-knob, too, you can change the size of the marble to get a somewhat sharp peak (or dip) or a gently sloping peak (or dip).

It's not even a huge issue that the EQ sounds like ass; it's that having it displayed graphically helps you a lot in understanding the matter.

Your comment on your brother's label made it sound like he was just starting with it - still, 30 releases in 10 years is not a lot, really, especially if you keep in mind that he started at a point where iTunes was a gleam in Jobs' eye.

[Incinerator Drone]

Ok, I messed around with a lot of effects, mostly reverb. Trying to see if I can find that mix between smoothing things out without watering them out too much. It SEEMS to have helped a lot.

Anyone want to check it out and give some feedback?

http://www.myspace.com/auroraunit313

It's the first song, the one called "Spiraling In Circles Forever."

I pretty much used some reverb and / or delay on almost every track, except the bass and drum tracks, which didn't seem to take to them as well. I'm not sure what else I can even do on the effects end. I think it may be time to start on figuring out compression and equalizing? Not saying I've mastered using effects or anything, ha ha.

[sgx]

First, your bro sounds like a dickwad.

Second, when I was learning about compression, and still occasionally, I found it helpful to watch how the compressor was effecting the waveform in real time. This free plugin http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 s(m)exoscope is rad for that. Just pop it in the effects chain after the compressor and you can see how it is squashing the signal when you move the knobs around. Remember to still use your ears though.

[Harmony]

This free plugin

hahaha, I've been exporting stuff to CoolEdit (yes CoolEdit) for years to visualize the waveforms and I never thought to just grab an oscilloscope vst. Thanks sgx, I'm such a n00b.

[Yoozer]

Ok, I messed around with a lot of effects, mostly reverb. Trying to see if I can find that mix between smoothing things out without watering them out too much. It SEEMS to have helped a lot.

Anyone want to check it out and give some feedback?

We've got another forum for that, but I'll shoot. Lots of high frequency stuff in there; watch the bumps. Try http://www.voxengo.com/product/SPAN/

I think it may be time to start on figuring out compression and equalizing?

Start with plain old volume adjustment; right now the high frequencies are too loud. Identify the instruments doing this and decrease their volume a bit.

[Incinerator Drone]

This may be a dumb question, but is putting too much high frequency stuff in one place what causes the kind of muddy sound? And what exactly do you do about it, just equalize an instrument or two down into the lower frequencies?

And this may be an even dumber question, but on my equalizer there is high (gain) and high (freq) as well as low (gain) and low (freq). So to take an instrument and put it into a lower frequency... do I move the low (gain) AND the low (freq) knobs up a bit while dropping the high (gain) AND high (freq) knobs? And if I have a couple instruments in both the lower and higher frequencies, do I want to make sure the freq knobs are a bit different on each one? Like say... one all the way up, one mostly up, one 75% up, etc. Does it work like that?

[Yoozer]

This may be a dumb question, but is putting too much high frequency stuff in one place what causes the kind of muddy sound?

A "muddy" sound is caused by the fact that too many instruments compete for the same part of the frequency range. Go read http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req0400/OctaveEQ.htm

And this may be an even dumber question, but on my equalizer there is high (gain) and high (freq) as well as low (gain) and low (freq). So to take an instrument and put it into a lower frequency... do I move the low (gain) AND the low (freq) knobs up a bit while dropping the high (gain) AND high (freq) knobs?

You don't actually move an instrument to a lower frequency.

EQing (cutting) and filtering is essentially being given a block of marble (the original recording) and a hammer and chisel. You chop everything away that does not resemble David.

An instrument occupies a certain frequency range. A nearby instrument occupies part of the same frequency range. To make these frequency ranges not overlap, you use the equalizer to cut away a part of both so that they fit "flush" - so to speak.

And if I have a couple instruments in both the lower and higher frequencies, do I want to make sure the freq knobs are a bit different on each one? Like say... one all the way up, one mostly up, one 75% up, etc. Does it work like that?

No. If you'd have 2 instruments occupying exactly the same range, the volume for those particular frequencies can be summed - it's just like stacking Tetris blocks. The solution is to turn down the overall volume of both so that both of 'm will fit.

Start with cutting, not with boosting - this means that the EQ gain is turned down, not up. The frequency knob of the gain merely determines where things get cut.

See if you can get this plugin to work - http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/ - it's called the Nyquist EQ. It actually shows you what you're doing. Just don't forget to disable/set to neutral the built-in EQ.