TheKrow Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Greetings everyone! I "finished" a mix that took me quite a few hours to complete, and I feel that it still lacks some things that I probably can't pick out myself. I hope you can find the time to critique it and help suggest things it's missing, or things it needs to be improved upon. It was really fun making this one, so I promise it's not that bad . It could perhaps be my first submission to OCR. If need be, I can post the original song, just ask. Thanks. Version 1 http://www.tindeck.com/listen/oqlj Version 2 http://www.tindeck.com/listen/jokt Version 3 http://www.tindeck.com/listen/xoat Version 4 http://www.tindeck.com/listen/gtwt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 oooof that violin sample is harsh man. Gotta find a better sample for that. And the notes are off key...gah. The beat's not bad I suppose, but you really need to develope that ear for key. sorry there mate Hmmm but main part of the mix where it builds up to the epic kinda feel is good. Major clipping and huge volume editing needed, got some good atmosphere. Haha wait a second...this sounds like how I started off >_> well, I must say if this is how you normally compose then you need to practise a lot...just like me - you've got some huge potential methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Well, as for the "violin" it's actually a cello, but I don't quite understand what you mean by it being "harsh". If you could specify where you hear it becoming too much that would be great because, I actually use two versions of the same cello. I needed to make a version with less attack and more decay so slower notes would transition better. And I'm pretty sure that was the best sample I could find. I also didn't mess with the EQ at all in this, so I'll probably go back and fix it up when I have all the sounds set. As for being off key... I also need you to explain where, please. I need specifics sorry xP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 harsh, meaning it's a bad sample. That's the bad thing about using soundfonts...most of them blow...trust me I still rely on those pieces of crap-cola. If you want, Google up Squidfont Orchestral: that will provide you some decent orchestral samples...well decent in terms of Soundfonts anyways. As for offkey, I shall show you the difference between on and off... http://www.fileupyours.com/view/218181/key%20example%202.mp3 http://www.fileupyours.com/view/218181/key_example%201.mp3 Tell me which one sounds more pleasant. Now, the one that isn't pleasant is what your track sounds like - I'm sorry, but there's no way to sugar coat it - because the judges will be 500 times worse than me...they have little patience for new composers unfortunately. And yes, definitely work on the EQ - but before that, ensure that your notes are all correct. I've been there man, so I know how this all feels. Took me nearly two years to get where I am and I STILL haven't gotten posted yet. The bar here is hiiiigh. Especially since SOME of the high-ups here are pretentious...at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewhoisiam Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I don't have time to do anything with this tonight, but for some help with what keys things are in and that sort of thing. (I have a very bad ear for this also, massive envy for people that can do that8-O) http://www.vgmusic.com/ That site will give you a basic midi that you can dissect. Key signature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signature and the circle of fifths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths Will help with knowing what notes to use in original writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I don't have time to do anything with this tonight, but for some help with what keys things are in and that sort of thing. (I have a very bad ear for this also, massive envy for people that can do that8-O) http://www.vgmusic.com/ That site will give you a basic midi that you can dissect. Yeah man, midis are your friend - I was raised on midis good luck on your future endeavors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 harsh, meaning it's a bad sample. That's the bad thing about using soundfonts...most of them blow...trust me I still rely on those pieces of crap-cola. If you want, Google up Squidfont Orchestral: that will provide you some decent orchestral samples...well decent in terms of Soundfonts anyways. As for offkey, I shall show you the difference between on and off... http://www.fileupyours.com/view/218181/key%20example%202.mp3 http://www.fileupyours.com/view/218181/key_example%201.mp3 Tell me which one sounds more pleasant. Now, the one that isn't pleasant is what your track sounds like - I'm sorry, but there's no way to sugar coat it - because the judges will be 500 times worse than me...they have little patience for new composers unfortunately. And yes, definitely work on the EQ - but before that, ensure that your notes are all correct. I've been there man, so I know how this all feels. Took me nearly two years to get where I am and I STILL haven't gotten posted yet. The bar here is hiiiigh. Especially since SOME of the high-ups here are pretentious...at best. Thanks for taking the time to post that, HoboKa, I think I get it. I went back and made sure patterns shared the same overall keys, already. I think I was having trouble because I never needed to be too concerned with staying in key before. In the past I've been too scared to work with sharps, >_<. I think I'll eventually get the hang of it though. As for hewhoisiam... I use that site regulary for remixing, so I was aware already . I used the song midi from there to get out the main melody for my piece, but the rest is pretty much my own doing other than maybe a counter-melody or two. And I'll definitely be sure to check out the wikipedia article tomorrow when I'm not half asleep . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 NP, feel free to PM me if you have any questions (so long as it's not about ACTUAL theory =p) In either case this wip has big potential, can't wait to hear your improvements <----metroid fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Okay, so I edited it around a bit, and I think it sound a bit better overall. I'm not sure if everything is completely in key (since I guess I have a bad ear for key x_X) or not, but I tried to understand the circle of fifths thing and whatnot. I read it over and it was confusing as hell, even in kind of layman's terms, so bear with me :\ In short, I changed the cello soundfont to something much better, added a few more effects, played with the EQ, and changed around some notes / melodies. Most of it is sort of the same, but you can pick out the changes. I also kind of want to change the drum sounds in general, but who knows. Version two will be on the first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewhoisiam Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Well, the circle of 5ths is more about chord progression. I'd say read it, but start with a midi and work your way up. (my theory is pretty bad:oops:) This is a massive improvement though, kudos there. I'll do the best laments terms I can do. (my theory is pretty bad) Take your midi file and look at it in the piano roll view. You're looking for whole steps and half steps. A flat ( is a half step down and a sharp (#) is a half step up. I start out by looking and seeing what flats and sharps there are in the piece. As a general rule. Once you see the flats and sharps, you don't use the normal note. I'm referring to major scales here, which is about all I know. If you take Bb Major, and go Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb You won't be hitting B natural (which is just plain The same for Eb. Now, there is an order to the major scales that'll help you figure out what key they're in. That's your circle of fifths. If the piece is written in a major scale, then there's a pattern to what flats you add. F major has one flat. Bb. While Ab major has Bb Eb Ab Db. The order is: Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Each step around the circle of fifths, the scale changes and you add a single flat or sharp (flats in this case) So, as you look at your midi file, the first flat to look for is Bb, if you find it, then the piece may be in F major. The second flat you want to check for is Eb. If you have Bb and Eb, then it may be in Bb major. Continue till your find notes played as naturals. If you look for Ab and it's not there, then the piece is probably in Bb major. Now is a good time to note that this is a very basic lesson in major chords and keys. There are also minors, modes and lots of other stuff I really don't know much about. Hope this helps -H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Oh ok, ok, I think I get this now. I knew about certain notes like sharps, majors, and chord progression, already. Like how 1-3-5 is a major chord etc. But yeah, I never really delved into scales. So let me see if I'm understanding this correctly; only notes in a certain scale, usually already predetermined by a midi file, should be used when creating orignal melody, bassline, etc. That's what I'm getting. And the circle of fifths shows you how to read the set scale so you can pick out what notes to use. And if let's say I'm making a new song from scratch, I should pick out a scale I want to use beforehand when composing. I'm sure there are much more things to it, but if that's not the general idea to it, then I think there might be no hope for me x_X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewhoisiam Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Yep, that's pretty much it. Also, for a little bit different feel, a song can 'slip' one position around the circle of fifths, there are other modes and stuff that break the cycle giving you minor feels and stuff. The thing is consistency, there are exceptions to everything, but unless it's a key change, you don't vary from the key you're in. Once you know what you're changing, you can do really cool stuff. I had some off topic ranting in my last thread about going in and out of minor scales. Bb major is: Bb C D Eb F G A Bb But Bb harmonic minor is: Bb C Db Eb F Gb A Bb See what those sound like one right after the other:tomatoface: But I don't know much about the actual progressions and stuff. I'm still very midi dependent:oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Alright well thank you very much for the lesson. I am probably going to take a music theory class next year, so perhaps it will help later on. I plan to have music as a second option to my life, so I want to improve as much as possible. As for the ReMix, I would still like more suggestions on things it should have, but might not necessarily need. I'm not very good at special filtering, fading, or any kinds of complicated effects, so the more complicated stuff is out of the question. I've only been using FL for a few months and grabbed most of the tactical knowledge from YouTube (which really doesn't have a whole lot). So anything that isn't overcomplicated feel free to suggest! I'm also kind of limited on soundfont quality ;( Speaking of which, a link to better than average distorted lead would be much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLyGeN Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Just to clarify a couple of things.. Accidentals (#'s and b's) do not necessarily mean you are leaving the key (however, in your case, it may be confusing; will explain why in a bit). C Major just happens to have no accidentals, so if you use one, you will be using a note that is not within the key. But C# major, obviously, has at least one accidental (it has seven). The title screen (at least at the beginning) is in A minor. A minor also has no accidentals in the key signature, so it can lead you to believe that simply adding a sharp or a flat always means you are using a note outside of the key. The fact that it is in A minor makes it easy for you to add new material. All you have to do is add more white keys here and there, and chances are it will sound good (let your ear be the judge..) Notice how C and Am both use the white keys only?(no accidentals) Am is the relative minor to C Major. The mode your song is in is based not only on the intervals, but also on where the tonic is. Notice that the MP Title theme seems to come back to A a lot? That's a hint that it's in some form of A. Then you look at the notes used among A, and you can tell it's in minor. Another way of differentiating is understanding how certain keys make you feel. Minor key sounds sad to me. Maybe it sounds sad to you. But if you start adding your own material and coming back to the note C often, you'll find that the music starts to sound happier. God, I despise it. However, from a compositional point of view, moving to the relative major is not a bad thing. (But from a SlyGen point of view, ... ick. There was a lesson on Picardy thirds.. blood was shed on that day.) If you like music, then you will find that your music theory class is revolutionary. If you have questions (music theory can be fucking daunting at first), please do ask me so that I can retain that 90% or whatever of what we teach others. edit: one final note. You know the lead sounds harsh; you don't need us to tell you that. If your ear can tell that there's a problem, fix it. However if you are inquiring about how to fix something, by all means let us listen. But really, I would not have chosen that lead at all. (I think it's about time for me to learn a DAW and get an actual remix posted. I feel like a hypocrite..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I know exactly what you're saying, Sly. I figured out the whole A minor scale yesterday after I posted the second version so V3 will be much improved. The only thing I don't know all of, is the intervals for all the chord progressions (except major ). But that's what the nifty FL studio chords tool is useful for! I also know what you mean about the creepy style, I enjoy it much better too. That's one reason I enjoy Metroid music; I like the atmosphere and the "eerie" scales. And if you do eventually submit a mix, I think you should do the The Mansion from Luigi's Mansion. It's in E minor which sounds awesome, and there's note simplicity so there's lots to build on @_@. And about the lead, I know it sounds harsh; I looked through almost every lead in my library and nothing fit it well enough. It was the best in my opinion I guess. However I do want to use a synth similar to the one in the actual version. I think that eerie/whistly synth would be awesome :'/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 http://soundfonts.darkesword.com/ there's some fairly decent soundfonts in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Oh yeah, I already found DarkeSword's site with the good soundfonts. It's got some nice stuff that I'm sure I'll eventually use, but nothing I'm looking for right now. I need to try and find things myself though even though I'm terrible at looking... EDIT: Nvm, this tgsf21x is amazing.... RE:EDIT: Alright I finished V3. I souped it up quite a bit, so tell me what you think; it's on the first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Still got the dissonance here on ver3. Like I said getting that ear takes practise. Okay you know what, extract the midi of your track and I'll see if I can get it to sound like it's on key, that way you can compare it between what you have my fixing. However, you have a good sense of how instruments go together and your harmony and progression is purty good - like the flow makes sense, it's just the notes are jarring due to their off keyness lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 It's alright, I know what you mean, HoboKa. I should be able to manage though, I'm going to touch it up a bit more before I finally submit it. The percussion I plan to make a bit more articulate using panning and such, and I want to key things myself. If I can't at least figure that out, I'll eventually be needing help on ALL my projects And thanks for the compliments. EDIT: Alrighty, I have V4 up on the first post. I tried to adjust everything to an A minor scale so HOPEFULLY most of it's in key. I'm not gonna bother going back and rendering it again for one barely noticeable off-note. I also changed the percussion a little, and made the overall volume less intense. Let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKrow Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm gonna go ahead and bump this thread... Check out V4. I'm also working on a V5 where I am actually trying to add a bassline along with some more things. I really want to fine tune this, so hopefully it will get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoboKa Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Got some issues with attack and decay on the strings. And that dissonance is still present man. You really really need to train your ear for key T_T BUT this still has big potential Don't submit V5 until you have the off keyness fixed. Private message me V5, cuz as is, people probably don't won't comment on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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