Need music for free to play facebook app RPG

[landonpt]

It might have some ads on transitional pages at some point, so I'm really stuck in the crappy part of being "commercial use" since I really don't expect to even recoup hosting fees, but I can't predict how well it will end up doing.

Anyways, I looked around at tracks I could purchase for commercial use, but the stuff here is way better in general, and I can't be spending 30+ dollars per piece of music, I don't have the budget.

I've emailed 3 artists from here specifically, so hopefully they will reply, but I'm posting this so maybe some other artists would like to contribute to my game. In return I can add a credit and link in the credits section of the Game Manual.

The places music plays are on the navigation screen (overworld themes), during battle, and eventually I want separate pieces for dungeons the player can enter.

You can find the app here: apps.facebook.com/thewasteland

You can contact me at landonpt@yahoo.com or post here I'll be checking it regularly.

[Zephyr]

How far into development are you? Do you have a semi-working build? I've become interested in getting my name out there a little with some simpler projects and getting some practice in too. So I might be interested in a song or two.

[Gario]

Be careful what you post on Facebook - they grant themselves non-exclusive rights on anything that is ever posted on the site (that's in their terms of agreement). If you write music for the site be aware of those policies - they can use your stuff for whatever they deem fit without your consent.

Just FYI - Sorry, because of that I won't get myself involved.

[landonpt]

Be careful what you post on Facebook - they grant themselves non-exclusive rights on anything that is ever posted on the site (that's in their terms of agreement). If you write music for the site be aware of those policies - they can use your stuff for whatever they deem fit without your consent.

Just FYI - Sorry, because of that I won't get myself involved.

I can't give them any rights you don't allow me to. I'm going to ask them for clarification on this from facebook though.

Zephyr~ - I don't know if you have a facebook but you can go to the app right now, it's live, it's been approved for the application directory at facebook, and the base aspects are developed. In the future I will add dungeons, quests, npcs, and story. Right now it's more of a freeform explore, fight and progress game.

[Gario]

For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos ("IP content"), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook ("IP License"). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account (except to the extent your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it).

I'm refering specifically to that clause that occurs in the Terms of Agreement. I was going to join, except that little snag caught me. The debate on the news was about how they possibly held all information posted on Facebook on a private database after the user unsubscribed (needless to say unethical, if they ever did), but I don't know if that was true.

I'm pretty sure I'm reading that correctly, though - ask them about it... If I'm wrong I may think about it (although I'm a bit busy, atm, so I can't guarantee it).

[landonpt]

I'm refering specifically to that clause that occurs in the Terms of Agreement. I was going to join, except that little snag caught me. The debate on the news was about how they possibly held all information posted on Facebook on a private database after the user unsubscribed (needless to say unethical, if they ever did), but I don't know if that was true.

I'm pretty sure I'm reading that correctly, though - ask them about it... If I'm wrong I may think about it (although I'm a bit busy, atm, so I can't guarantee it).

Yeah that may only apply to media I actually upload to their servers. Since it would be hosted externally, and the code that displays it also external and only 'called' by their application platform, I'm thinking it can't apply, but yeah I'll get back to you on that.

Note ocremix has a similar clause. Existing tracks or those which have been licensed to others non-exclusively already are welcome. Just need some decent tracks to go with the game, and it's really tough to find that sort of thing.

[Gario]

Note ocremix has a similar clause.

The primary difference, though, is that remixing video game music wouldn't allow for the remixer to take full advantage of the business possibilities behind the music they're writing (as the sources being used, with few exceptions, are copyrighted material - we could get in trouble trying to make money off of it), whereas making original music for a game could lead to some real value being attributed to the song in question that the writer could benefit from (your game is probably free, but I may or may not feel like letting others use my music without permission, at least). Facebook takes the material, regardless of if it making you money or not, whereas in order to submit on OC the material really couldn't make you any profit, so exposing the music through OC actually helps more than it hurts (Look at Beatdrop - OC helped him get recognized even though he was using copyrighted material).

Since it would be hosted externally, and the code that displays it also external and only 'called' by their application platform, I'm thinking it can't apply, but yeah I'll get back to you on that.

You can find the app here: apps.facebook.com/thewasteland

If your hosting off of facebook that might not cause a problem. The link implied otherwise for me, though... I'd ask Facebook about it, to be sure - you don't want this to be taken and used as they see fit, right? I can't be certain - but this may still be considered Intellectual Property posted on Facebook (even if it is run through an external server, it's still posted, I believe). Please ask them about it - I'm sure you'd like to know, too.

If I'm not too busy (and if Facebook won't be taking random stuff from your work) I may check it out and see if I can help you out. Tell me what you need and I'll see what I can whip up. Of course, like Zephyr said before, though - some samples of your game work will help (I'm going to the link you've posted, right now... lol, I hit back and now I can't make a guy... My bad).

[landonpt]

If you can't make money off of something then you also can't copyright it. That would imply that I could take any songs from this site that have copyrighted source material and the infringement would be against the game company who owns the game's IP in which the music appeared.

'other stuff edited out'

edit: Ok here's this: http://musicappreciation.suite101.com/article.cfm/music_arranging_and_copyright

Ok so weird al conveniently gets to go around copyright law, that's pretty cheesy, but anyways. I wonder how much actual material has to be used to require permission, I mean do rappers always pay the original artists for the samples that make up parts of their songs? If so that just blows my mind lol.

[Gario]

If you can't make money off of something (due to copyright infringement) then you also can't copyright it.

Added something up there to help clarify it. Actually, posting copyrighted material on Facebook is strictly forbidden, according to Facebook's TOA, so you probably couldn't get away with inserting copyrighted music in your game, if that was your intention (probably not, seeing as your asking us to help write music for you ).

Ok so weird al conveniently gets to go around copyright law, that's pretty cheesy, but anyways. I wonder how much actual material has to be used to require permission, I mean do rappers always pay the original artists for the samples that make up parts of their songs? If so that just blows my mind lol.

Ya, it sucks that Weird Al gets a free ride, but I think that in general if a musician wants to use something that's copyrighted then they need explicit permission to use the material (with the exceptions listed there as exceptions ). Basically, if you use material that's not yours (and anyone finds out... sneaky) your subject to the copyright infringement laws.

Now that you mention it, though, I am a bit curious to see how many rights posted musicians have on this site. I know the posted people get really upset at those that blatantly steal work from them here (for good reason), but I wonder what kind of rights they have to their work by law... I honestly don't know - they can't exactly copyright it, can they?

Bleh, a bit off topic... When you figure out that Facebook thing I'll let you know if I will dedicate some stuff for you .

[landonpt]

I've asked in the dev forums: http://forum.developers.facebook.com/viewtopic.php?pid=143688#p143688

But who knows if/when I'll get a response. I guess for now I will add the disclaimer don't contribute anything that you don't want facebook to have non-exclusive rights to use.

To address something you said though, if some random guy contacts facebook and tells them something is copyrighted and that I don't have permission to use it, they'd have to provide proof of this. This can be difficult if not impossible if they are not the copyright holder themselves, and most game companies don't devote resources to snuffing out song copyright violations, otherwise would there even be an ocremix? I don't want to use someone else's work without their permission for sure, but I am not worried about square coming after me

[Gario]

To address something you said though, if some random guy contacts facebook and tells them something is copyrighted and that I don't have permission to use it, they'd have to provide proof of this.

There lies the problem. I certainly wouldn't have any copyrights on the music (I'd probably just write it and send it off, trusting you'd give me credit), so there would be nothing I could do if Facebook did as it liked with the stuff...

I appreciate the effort you've put into investigating the matter, though. It looks like your putting in some hard work trying to get the answers you (and I) need. I might be making a bigger deal out of it than I need to, so I'll see if I could do something for you, regardless (it's not like I've got publishing rights on anything, yet ). I'm sure you'll still want some answers about all that, though. I'll try to make a dungeon theme for you (just give me a list of the dungeons - I'll pick one that I could whip up a song for you).

As for OCR's music, I don't think it breaks copyright laws (as it is fan work - believe me, for a site this large the VG Companies would certainly bring down the hammer if they were breaking the law). I don't know the why not, though - I'm still learning about all that, myself.

[landonpt]

Thanks, I haven't even compiled a list of dungeons yet. That's content that will be worked on when a number of other items are completed.

When I was creating the game area, I made entrances to 2 caves, 3 buildings within the stronghold including the castle itself, and various buildings scattered across the land.

There's three major 'bad guy' landmarks that will be enterable as well, I have not determined the makeup of their interiors yet.

[landonpt]

I've made some progress in overworld area themes, probably because ambient stuff is most readily available, but could always use more.

Now what I really need are some rockin battle tracks. Also could use 3 short tracks symbolizing victory, loss, and retreat.

[Zephyr]

Hrmm, I'm still interested in this, and rights aren't really an issue for me, I'd do it just to get better at it, so I don't really care if facebook can steal it, what exactly would they use music from a small RPG for anyways? Haha, I'll try out the app later and let you know.

[Eino Keskitalo]

http://www.ocremix.org/info/Frequently_Asked_Questions#Isn.27t_this_music_copyrighted.3F - sure, the sources are copyrighted. Technically you'd have to ask the copyright holders permission to make a derived work before making and distributing it. Game companies most probably don't mind the additional exposure towards their franchises, there for no cease and desist letters so far. I recall I read in an interview about SSF2HDReMix that, along the other paperwork regarding that project, Capcom explicitly gave OCR permission to use Capcom music, which is a cool thing of them to do. I might be wrong about any of the previous things.

I really don't think the Facebook thing is about the apps or their content - it's for the user submitted content. Facebook would want to provide a profitable (ad-revenue) ground for appmakers, so that in the end their users used Facebook more. Them owning the apps & content of the apps would be a deterrent to anyone to expend effort & money into providing the apps. Again don't take my word for this.

--Eino

[Gario]

Thanks Evktalo for that information. Interesting, for sure - I really was curious about those details. I think OCR doesn't infringe on copyrights due to the claim that this is a non-profit organization (it's one of the exceptions of copyright infringement).