big giant circles Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 No, he said that you have the right to say what you want even though you might not (and usually won't) get it and that you can refuse to buy until you get that price. Eh, he only said that AFTER he was called out on this. I did and that's exactly the message that he is putting forward. That one's work should have a value at what he thinks it is, not what the creator of it does (or the ones that fund an allow the creation of it, the "music industry") But whatever, at least now he's admitted that it's merely his opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 No, he said that you have the right to say what you want even though you might not (and usually won't) get it and that you can refuse to buy until you get that price. After a long-winded debate that practically forced him to admit it. We (and I use that term for musicians in general, not just on this board) see this kind of behavior all of the time. It boils down to simple selfish entitlement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilendiel Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 And I'm not a 'he'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 And I'm not a 'he'. My bad. :tomatoface: After a long-winded debate that practically forced him to admit it. We (and I use that term for musicians in general, not just on this board) see this kind of behavior all of the time. It boils down to simple selfish entitlement Eh, he only said that AFTER he was called out on this. OBJECTION! (I apologize for the coloring of text, but it was necessary to be a full reference) "You are part of the public, in case you had forgotten. And you do have the right to say what price you want. You don't have the right to GET that price necessarily, but you have the right to not buy until you find that price. It's called shopping." She said this long before she was called out/"forced" to admit she was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 My bad. :tomatoface: Aren't you going to ask for her number now bro? Also, you're horrible about missing obvious points man. I'm gonna get Darke to slap you around for a bit. (And you're still calling her "he") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilendiel Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 After a long-winded debate that practically forced him to admit it. We (and I use that term for musicians in general, not just on this board) see this kind of behavior all of the time. It boils down to simple selfish entitlement Yeah. Selfish entitlement. Says the musician. Who wants money. I have this thing and if you want it, you have to pay me. You have to pay for your own living as well as mine, and in return you get this song to listen to. You don't get a car, or a house. You get a song. I hope you really like that song. Funny that there's an old metaphor about getting something 'for a song'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Lord, I WAS going to go to the movies tonight, but I think I'll stay in and watch this instead. Popcorn anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Aren't you going to ask for her number now bro? Also, you're horrible about missing obvious points man. I'm gonna get Darke to slap you around for a bit. (And you're still calling her "he") Uh... I don't know how to respond to that. I don't know what I'm missing here. :/ My understanding is that you and Nekofrog say that she changed her mind only because she was "forced to" (Nekofrog said that you said because she was "called out") and unless some posts are invisible I don't see how that happened. Yeah. Selfish entitlement. Says the musician. Who wants money. I have this thing and if you want it, you have to pay me. You have to pay for your own living as well as mine, and in return you get this song to listen to. No one has to buy music, ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Yeah. Selfish entitlement. Says the musician. Who wants money. I have this thing and if you want it, you have to pay me. But wanting something for nothing in return is the very EPITOME of "entitlement". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sephfire Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Yeah. Selfish entitlement. Says the musician. Who wants money. I have this thing and if you want it, you have to pay me. You have to pay for your own living as well as mine, and in return you get this song to listen to.You don't get a car, or a house. You get a song. I hope you really like that song. Funny that there's an old metaphor about getting something 'for a song'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Damn those musicians. Thieves, the lot of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Damn those musicians. Thieves, the lot of them. Make this debate into one of your ZP-style flash videos or I will kill you. (not really, but it would make me very happy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 But wanting something for nothing in return is the very EPITOME of "entitlement". I agree. It's also being very selfish and unaware that the universe does not focus around you (not you, Gwil, but people in general) and that money DOES in fact make the world go round. Well, yeah okay, I guess that's also part of "entitlement"... I'm an idiot. G'bye, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilendiel Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 No one has to buy music, ya know. Entirely correct. But nobody had to buy snake oil either, and look what happened with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Entirely correct.But nobody had to buy snake oil either, and look what happened with that. That seriously made me laugh and throw my head back into my chair (it's a big office-style chair). My point is that you chose to buy the music, so it's not like they're forcing you to pay for their living... you're doing completely voluntarily, just... inadvertently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilendiel Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 But wanting something for nothing in return is the very EPITOME of "entitlement". I said musicians should be compensated. Like in my second post I think. So don't try to make it look like I want something for free, or that I'm "admitting I'm wrong" either because I said it damn early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Yeah. Selfish entitlement. Says the musician. Who wants money. I have this thing and if you want it, you have to pay me. You have to pay for your own living as well as mine, and in return you get this song to listen to.You don't get a car, or a house. You get a song. I hope you really like that song. Funny that there's an old metaphor about getting something 'for a song'. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. That song was my fucking creation. My time. My effort. My life. Do you want to derive enjoyment from MY time and effort? Then you have to pay. Because you have no right to it, only I do. What I create is not "public domain" unless I create it with the intent purpose of it being public domain. I'll give you one thing, at least you're consistent with your bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 or that I'm "admitting I'm wrong" either because I said it damn early. That's what I said too, yet BGC made a threat to get my brother to "slap me around" because I was missing some sort of "obvious point". How does this make sense that I can defend what you say and be wrong yet you defend yourself and you're right?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilendiel Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Do you want to derive enjoyment from MY time and effort? No. No I do not. You (and most people) are not that special to me. If I did however, and I needed to pay you, I would pay YOU. Not Bob or Fred or Corporation X. If I was particularly interested, I'd likely pay more than the going rate. That's if I want it. And I know what you meant, just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I think what Gwil means, guys, is that you should only get enough money to "compensate" how much work went into the music, and then it becomes public domain. Am I correct in saying that THIS is the meaning of your argument, Gwil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 No. No I do not. You (and most people) are not that special to me.If I did however, and I needed to pay you, I would pay YOU. Not Bob or Fred or Corporation X. If I was particularly interested, I'd likely pay more than the going rate. That's if I want it. And I know what you meant, just saying. But that's not exactly what you argued (it was a part of it). You also argued that YOU had a better idea of what MY time and effort was worth than I myself did. And we both know that's total bullshit. You've yet to present an argument in this thread that hasn't been ripped to shreds, and yet you still post as if they haven't been. Are you related to Bill O'Reilly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I realize this thread has gone in about 9 circles by now, so I only feel compelled to say to all: http://dipstickremix.ytmnd.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 You also argued that YOU had a better idea of what MY time and effort was worth than I myself did.And we both know that's total bullshit. I cannot help but agree with this, you can never tell how much work went into something unless you asked the artist/ saw them work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 i still contend that the thread should've been locked right after my first post because that pretty much summed everything up, despite whether the opposing party admits it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hy Bound Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Yeah. Selfish entitlement. Says the musician. Who wants money. I have this thing and if you want it, you have to pay me. You have to pay for your own living as well as mine, and in return you get this song to listen to. I don't know how to reply to something like that... If you don't think its worth money then don't fucking buy it... its that easy. If you want something enough to make a thread like this, but don't feel you should pay a DOLLAR to the person who created it, i don't know what to say. It really is like saying someone should give you a bmw because you feel you deserve it. It doesnt matter that they had to put a bunch of their own time and money into making it, they should just hand it to you on a silver platter. I realize thats a SLIGHT over-exaggeration, but it really is only a SLIGHT over-exaggeration. But honestly, if you don't feel people like miley cyrus and the jonas brothers and Metallica deserve money for what they do, then don't buy their shit. Nobody is forcing you to. Nobody is forcing you to go to their shows, buy their songs, buy their merchandise, spread the word for them... So why should you have a say in what YOU think somebody's work is worth if you are out of that financial loop. Telling somebody they are selfish when they expect you to pay for something they give you is completely irrational. There's no other word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilendiel Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 I don't know how to reply to something like that... If you don't think its worth money then don't fucking buy it... its that easy. If you want something enough to make a thread like this, but don't feel you should pay a DOLLAR to the person who created it, i don't know what to say. It really is like saying someone should give you a bmw because you feel you deserve it. It doesnt matter that they had to put a bunch of their own time and money into making it, they should just hand it to you on a silver platter. I realize thats a SLIGHT over-exaggeration, but it really is only a SLIGHT over-exaggeration. But honestly, if you don't feel people like miley cyrus and the jonas brothers and Metallica deserve money for what they do, then don't buy their shit. Nobody is forcing you to. Nobody is forcing you to go to their shows, buy their songs, buy their merchandise, spread the word for them... So why should you have a say in what YOU think somebody's work is worth if you are out of that financial loop. Telling somebody they are selfish when they expect you to pay for something they give you is completely irrational. There's no other word for it. I never said that. You said it, other people said it BUT NOT FUCKING ONCE DID I SAY IT! EVER! And I don't buy their shit! And I don't steal it either! So what's your problem that I have an ideal?? ARE YOU AFRAID I COULD BE RIGHT IN SOME WAY?? Or do you just not like the fact that I have a backbone and am not afraid to take a view that may be wildly unpopular and STICK TO IT? You have no fucking clue what I know or what I do. Or who I have talked to, or what I have talked to them about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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