Questions & Discussion: major or indie? Commercial or not?

[Salluz]

Simply put, whether I go indie or join a label, I am feeling a serious need to develop my skills and do research.

My goals may be far fetched but not unattainable. I am not trying to walk the route that Soulja Boy or Katy Perry are walking; I am looking at giants like Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Prince, Elton John, etc. People with a deep gift who are truly successful. Likewise to Will Smith: he isn't in the headline of every news article, but if he he does a movie, everyone watches it. I call that true talent and true business.

Now, I know that if anyone here is either an artist or label owner, indie or industry, your greatest goal is to develop a fan base doing whatever it is that you want to do, not what someone else wants. It seems that a majority of the industry isn't allowing this to be.

Strength: I have several talents, some more developed than others. My instrumentation isn't up to par but my vocal ability is strong. I am tonal, rhythmical and lyrical. I can write, sing, rap, produce, create my own art (natural/digital). I theorize naturally, but it'll take a while for my hands to create output at the same rate my mind does. I don't really know any true limits apart from certain styles of dancing, if that.

Weakness: Now, my issue is that I can't seem to get anything finished and I don't know how to "get out" or "be known", if you will. Maybe those steps are too far ahead? I don't know.

*What I want to do is to be known commercially but NOT do what the industry tries to standardize. Rather, I want to EXCEED those standards. However, a small fraction of me is thinking, "dude, just make songs for movie and game soundtracks. So much more worth it. Forget this commercial crap." So, fellow artists, what are your goals? If you're "signed" or "out their on your own", how exactly did you get connected? What are you doing now? Where would you like to see yourself?

[zircon]

First... remember that right now is a really tumultous time for the music industry. It is harder than ever to get on a label that can really work hard for you. It's easy to get on SOME kind of label, but the days of shopping for some kind of dream deal are just about over. You can certainly try, but it's pretty much like buying lottery tickets. You can influence your chances, but only by working extremely hard; touring TIRELESSLY, promoting yourself nonstop, keeping on top of all kinds of social networking, releasing new content constantly, etc.

Second, you need to acknowledge and accept your current skill level. It seems like you're talking yourself and your abilities quite a bit here. I've never heard anything you've done, so I'm not making any judgment, but you need to be very realistic. One of my professors at Drexel once said that almost everyone coming into the Music Industry program there claims they're capable of doing pro-level work, but none of them actually are. The overwhelming majority of musicians, producers and composers are nowhere near the level you need to be at to make even a semblance of a living. Statistically speaking, RIGHT NOW you are probably at THAT level.

When I first came to OCR and started sharing my music, guys like Daniel Baranowsky came down very hard on me for thinking too highly of my own music. Later, the same thing happened on VGmix. I learned my lesson the hard way. It took awhile to finally come to grips with my skill level, and to realize there were countless people better than me, and the only way I could come close was to work my ass off. Are you willing to come to that same realization? Are you really ready to work hard?

To put it in perspective, one of my favorite artists, BT, said that for every decent idea he has, he also writes 10 crappy, cheesy, lame, and derivative tracks. That's what it means to be a musician.

Believe it or not, what I'm saying now really is probably the best answer I can give. It doesn't matter what my goals are. The most important thing is to have that motivation to keep improving and to work really hard. I see so many composers and artists who get rejected - whether here or on countless other sites - and say "How dare they, I deserve better." No, they deserve what they got, or worse. Separating your own sense of self-worth from the music you write is crucial!

[Meteo Xavier]

I thought this was the same topic Chipp Damage did some months ago.

And I have to echo Zircon entirely, although with much less credit to my name. Pretty much every day gets harder and harder for new people to get in - its for this reason I have come to stop disrespecting bands I've heard of entirely simply because I'VE HEARD OF THEM - that in itself is truly something to respect, if nothing else.

I'd say, right now, minimize your expectations down a WHOLE lot. Consider anything you get out of your efforts a trophy. I have ONE remix to my name and it isn't even that good, but you bet your ass I wear that Ocremixer title like a crown. With so many flooding every channel you can think of, the smallest achievement becomes precious. Keep that in mind.

Also consider how much you would really want to be on a major music label in the first place. Mo' Money, Mo' problems. You want to be like Michael Jackson? Look what happened to him. Elton John's lucky to be alive. Its all glitz and glamour on the outside, and on the inside you have to weigh on your shoulders an extremely demanding job that the entire world is literally watching you do. That's at least one major reason celebrities are insane.

I think of it like the Ancient Cave on Lufia II.

You got in? Great... let's see you get out.

Basically, just appreciate anything you get out of it. Don't be too proud if you end up writing shit for Barney The Purple Dinosaur on Ice or something. As much as it sucks, its a real job, and music jobs don't just rain from the sky. It is my opinion the Good Lord sees it fit to punish the pretentious for their overestimation by sticking them largely in positions they don't want to be in. Don't be too proud.

I think thats it for me. Peace out. Good luck and appreciate anything you get!

[Salluz]

@Zircon: I may have faith in myself but I can't argue. If anything, I pace too slowly. I was talking about development and then furthering. Coulda' been more clear. Regardless, I see your point: no need to be pretentious because the only one who can see what I have on the inside is me. To the rest of the world, I might as well be Joe Shmoe. Even more simplistically: Kanye West is annoying, so don't be like him.

Well, I am not saying that I am "that good" (though to be honest I don't see myself as "some other guy") but I aim to do my best, and no, it's not about the money. I am all about the passion, depth, skill and life of the music.

As for the business? Talent aside, the business whores could take a look at the requirements and avoid hassle. I've seen people flop on both sides of the spectrum. My friend Charles, a dancer, was "underqualified": wasn't good enough at dancing; as for my sister, I would say that she was "overqualified" for her placing at a WB branch label: they wanted her to simplify her soulful singing to something more pop-friendly. Less work and more money is what resonates in a lot of these people's minds.

@Meteo: Michael was a bit older but too young to die; Elton John could've died, plus I'm sure that he lost fans when he admitted to being gay (AND he did a duet with Little Richard! LMAO); Stevie Wonder may be successful but regardless, the man can't see; Prince (whom I didn't mention) may get all of the ladies but he lived it hard and has gone through a few divorces. Also needs/wants rib surgery but the JW's won't let him.

Forgive my pride but I don't want their lives; I just want to maximize. Hey, that rhymed. SKILLZ!

Production: This isn't finished (took a few hours to do, didn't finish this beat from a few months ago), but it shows what I can do. You're brave enough to show your beats in a thread and so I guess that I'm dumb enough to follow with that example.

If you click this or perhaps my sig, you'll hear a couple of my lyrical works. The music in the Ramses song isn't the best of my music (I actually threw a flow on a beat that I never finished in 2006. I could do a million things to make it better, but you know how hip hop is: WHO CARES JUST GIMME DA BASS!)

My newer, more skillful 2009/2010 songs aren't available but here's some of my hiphop stuff from 2008. I personally think that the stuff was cool + labels would probably hear my songs and say GOOD ENOUGH, but first, I could kill some of the repetition in Morning Affection (a 2006 beat updated in 2008, actually). Really, I can hear how the chords in all of my songs are nice but they could use more variation, and at times, more or less accompaniment. Out of the four songs presented on VGMix, I would say that the beat of "Morning Affection " needed work in the verse while with all of my songs I could use slight, slight help in the notation, in terms of what's general. Wanted Gangsta kinda sucked to me but it was a good idea.

[JJT]

I know a couple people who've bought their way out of their record contracts, for variety of reasons ranging from:

* there wasn't enough money to go around

* their label didn't care about them / their label did care about them until their biggest fan left the company and then there wasn't even anyone who would call them back

* their label wouldn't give them the kind of tour support they needed

* they had to wait 9 months to release a record after it had been completed

* they couldn't think of a single reason to be legally bound to an entity that didn't have the will or the resources to help them in any meaningful way, beyond giving them a nice shiny logo to place in the bottom corner of their album cover

The old system is done. Who knows what will take its place, if anything. The goal among the folks in my scene is to find small labels with a focus on digital distribution and/or management with good ties to music supervisors for film and tv (that's how music is getting heard these days).

Don't waste your time trying to create music that's 'radio friendly'. Nobody listens to the radio anymore.

Ultimately, my advice is to find ways to produce and distribute your music yourself and then to keep doing it and keep doing it and keep doing it.

[Mustin]

I don't even know where to begin.