Guitar Rig vs. Amplitube vs. Waves GTR vs. Revalver vs. ....

[LuIzA]

I'm surprised there wasn't a thread like this before.

So... your opinions?

[Sixto]

Okay! I've tried them all and I like each one for certain things.

Guitar Rig 4 has my favorite JCM800 and JMP sounds as well as really spot-on Fender Twin and Vox AC30 models. This is my go-to software for clean tones. Simply hate the higher gain amps like the Gratifier and the Uberschall model, though. Guitar Rig 4 also has the coolest tape echo model I've ever heard. I love using it in full stereo.

Amplitube 3 has great Fender models in them, perfect for clean stuff. I also like the JCM 900 and 800 models pretty well. Really dislike the other high gain models. They do have really good pedal models, though, especially the overdrives and distortions.

Waves GTR? Well, they have really nice clean sounds but most of the overdrive/distortion tones sound really bad like they're focused around the 3-4kHz area. Good quality Waves effects, though.

Revalver MK III has really good Peavey amp models if that's what you're into. Especially the JSX model. The non-Peavey models are pretty mediocre to me, though you can do a hell of alot of tweaking to find a good sound. That's probably what Revalver is best at. The endless amount of tweaking you can do. Pretty good pedal models, too, but what I like most is being able to add your own VST plugins anywhere in the signal chain. Very useful.

Line 6's POD Farm software is neat as well. Tons of guitar AND bass amps and effects, easy to dial in a fairly good tone, pretty good mic preamp models, too. The Line 6 tones sound too digital to my ears at times, but it's pretty easy to cover some of that up in a full mix.

My favorite software by FAR for high gain tones has to be TH1 Overloud. Best digital high gain amp models I've ever heard, especially the Mesa Rectifier model. They model almost EVERYTHING from the amp. All three channels and every mode available on each channel. Its 5150 model is also pretty terrific and the effects are top-notch. This is probably the only amp sim software that includes an EQ with low and high pass filtering.

Anyway, tl;dr. They're all lovely!

[Brandon Strader]

Live Half-stack

This is the RhythmL, half of a deadly combination, from my Sonic remix. WITH the silence deleted.

No EQ, no compression, no nothing on this -- raw track. Didn't even have a noise gate at the time.

Peavey 6505+ head

B-52 at-412 cab

Having said that if I was in a tough spot and needed amp sim, I'd choose Overload TH1 and then Studio Devil..

[suzumebachi]

After having toyed with most of the above at one point or another, I find myself using Guitar Rig the most. It's the easiest to tweak to get it to sound good and fit well in a mix, in my opinion.

Amplitube and Overloud both have the same problem for me. They both work pretty well for lead tones, but suddenly suck when you want to play rhythm. The high gain tube emulations just don't sound natural to me. They have very strange attacks that tend to mud up your rhythms, especially when playing at faster speeds.

Line 6... I've never used POD Farm but I do own a GearBox. It is a hunk of shit. I'd go into detail but I don't want to get an ulcer.

[Sixto]

[18:11] <Brandon> Studio Devil and TH1 are my top-shelf amp sim things, but they still dont beat out a properly mic'ed half stack

[18:12] <+sixto|cubase> i'd put any of my th1 tones up against any of your mic'd amp tones

Sorry to hijack your thread, Luiza!

Anyway, here's my take on that riff using Overloud TH1.

The high gain tube emulations just don't sound natural to me. They have very strange attacks that tend to mud up your rhythms, especially when playing at faster speeds.

Funny you should say that because that's pretty much how tube amps react. That's why alot of metal players like to stick an overdrive pedal in front of their amps.

[Brandon Strader]

[18:11] <Brandon> Studio Devil and TH1 are my top-shelf amp sim things, but they still dont beat out a properly mic'ed half stack

[18:12] <+sixto|cubase> i'd put any of my th1 tones up against any of your mic'd amp tones

Sorry to hijack your thread, Luiza!

Anyway, here's my take on that riff using Overloud TH1.

Funny you should say that because that's pretty much how tube amps react. That's why alot of metal players like to stick an overdrive pedal in front of their amps.

I listened to that with headphones and through the stereo. It sounds kinda close through my stereo but through headphones, the difference is obvious. There's a lack of clarity in the tone in general, and a lot of "high end fire" that you get with TH1. Probably using the VariFire or whatever it is called rite...? It "breaks up" a lot more than the amp tone does.. It's not bad but it doesn't have the body you'll get from a real amp. You totally didn't turn off the EQ or compression though. :3

Nice try on those arps

[Sixto]

There was no EQ or compression.

[LuIzA]

thanks for doing so, actually haha.

I was about to ask for a small demo clip of the TH1 Overloud. I'd actually never heard of it before.

...I actually preferred it to Brandon's mic'd amp, though his palm muting sounded a little better.

[Brandon Strader]

thanks for doing so, actually haha.

I was about to ask for a small demo clip of the TH1 Overloud. I'd actually never heard of it before.

...I actually preferred it to Brandon's mic'd amp, though his palm muting sounded a little better.

Seriously though, real amp sound wins. That clip I posted isn't even remotely doctored or produced. Slap some EQ on it, high pass it, record double or even quadruple rhythms and you're in for a treat.

[LuIzA]

Seriously though, real amp sound wins. That clip I posted isn't even remotely doctored or produced. Slap some EQ on it, high pass it, record double or even quadruple rhythms and you're in for a treat.

then, by all means... =)

what half stack and mics do you use?

I'd usually agree with you based on my own results. Thing is, mic'ing an amp isn't the most convenient thing in the world, especially when you don't have a lot of time, or experience. Over time, I found that using amp sim plug-ins is even more convenient than using physical amp sim devices like PODs.

Also, anyone ever used Native Instruments' Rammfire?

[Brandon Strader]

then, by all means... =)

what half stack and mics do you use?

I'd usually agree with you based on my own results. Thing is, mic'ing an amp isn't the most convenient thing in the world, especially when you don't have a lot of time, or experience. Over time, I found that using amp sim plug-ins is even more convenient than using physical amp sim devices like PODs.

Also, anyone ever used Native Instruments' Rammfire?

I rarely have enough time or experience, that's why I use the half-stack. :3 I was able to craft a decent tone in Studio Devil but that crap takes HOURS and you have to adjust it heavily if you use a guitar with a different pickup. I just plug into the half-stack with the settings I've got set with any guitar and boom. Put it in standby while I'm setting up, the mics for the most part are always in position, plug in their cables and I'm all set. It's like a 2 minute job.

IT'S DA MOST CONVENIENT THING IN DA WORLD!!!!11

I've got one mic aimed center cup for ridiculous crisp and one between the cups for the low end tone. Then I mix that together.

Two SM57s on boom stands. :3

Peavey 6505+ head

B-52 at-412 cab

[Nekofrog]

Someday I'll go to a live setup, but that requires me to actually buy an expensive tube amp and microphone and I'm poor.

My experience with digital modeling is limited to GuitarRig, Amplitube, Revalver, and Line6 stuff. And to be fair, I stopped using software modeling a long time ago (talking GR2, and RevalverMKII or something like that, 5+ years ago).

GR always had some amazing clean tones and I might give it another try now that it's been a few years, but its high gain stuff was shit. Total shit.

In fact, I never found usable high gain tones on software modelers. Ever.

My PodXT has been my main modeler for years now, and it more than gets the job done. Some absolutely amazing cleans, and I love the rhythm tones I get out of it. The leads leave something to be desired, but I make it work (I don't play much lead anyway, so...).

[zircon]

I'm not a guitarist but I do use a lot of guitar samples (Shreddage) with virtual amps. I have to agree with Sixto that TH-1 sounds absolutely killer.

[Sixto]

Also, anyone ever used Native Instruments' Rammfire?

I saw that a couple of days ago but haven't tried it. Seems pretty cool, stand alone Dual Rectifier model. Looks like it actually models the older 2 channel amp. Interesting. I'll have to check it out.

Also, I do agree that putting microphones on a good amp will sound better than a digital modeler but it's not as easy as Brandon makes it seem. If you don't have a good mic and a decent preamp in a good, treated room where you're able to push the amp hard enough to get the speakers to move air, you're not going to get a good sound. Brandon's clip sounds like a tube amp, yeah. It sounds lively and organic, but there are touches of comb filtering and phasing from using two mics and not taking the time to make sure they're in phase, there are bad reflections from the room, and the tone itself is very boxy like the speakers had no room to breathe. Sure, you can run it through a bunch of equalizer and compression plugins, but then your tone will just end up being as digital as any modelling software.

What I like to do is run my amp heads into something like a THD Hotplate, which is an attenuator and a dummy load. This let's you turn on the amp while not having speakers connected without blowing up your amp. You take the line out of the Hotplate and plug into your DAW, then use quality speaker cabinet impulses like those from Redwirez. Then you get the organic qualities of a living, breathing tube amp, the ability to crank it to 10 without bothering the neighbors, and you get the benefit of professionally recording speaker cabinets in a controlled studio space using microphones and other outboard gear that you could probably never be able to afford in a lifetime.

[Brandon Strader]

I saw that a couple of days ago but haven't tried it. Seems pretty cool, stand alone Dual Rectifier model. Looks like it actually models the older 2 channel amp. Interesting. I'll have to check it out.

Also, I do agree that putting microphones on a good amp will sound better than a digital modeler but it's not as easy as Brandon makes it seem. If you don't have a good mic and a decent preamp in a good, treated room where you're able to push the amp hard enough to get the speakers to move air, you're not going to get a good sound. Brandon's clip sounds like a tube amp, yeah. It sounds lively and organic, but there are touches of comb filtering and phasing from using two mics and not taking the time to make sure they're in phase, there are bad reflections from the room, and the tone itself is very boxy like the speakers had no room to breathe. Sure, you can run it through a bunch of equalizer and compression plugins, but then your tone will just end up being as digital as any modelling software.

What I like to do is run my amp heads into something like a THD Hotplate, which is an attenuator and a dummy load. This let's you turn on the amp while not having speakers connected without blowing up your amp. You take the line out of the Hotplate and plug into your DAW, then use quality speaker cabinet impulses like those from Redwirez. Then you get the organic qualities of a living, breathing tube amp, the ability to crank it to 10 without bothering the neighbors, and you get the benefit of professionally recording speaker cabinets in a controlled studio space using microphones and other outboard gear that you could probably never be able to afford in a lifetime.

How to fix? :3

I never noticed that stuff

Also that second thing you talked about sounded cool

[Sixto]

How to fix? :3

I never noticed that stuff

Also that second thing you talked about sounded cool

The mic issue can be a pain to fix. Set your main microphone exactly where you want it, then move your second mic into place. If the second mic is even the tiniest bit closer or further away from the speaker, you'll be out of phase. Another way to fix it is in your DAW by manually moving the track left or right until the two tracks match up perfectly. You'll have to really zoom in and make the tiniest adjustments.

The attenuator thing is very cool. THD Hotplates cost around $300-350 for 8 ohms. There is also something called a Weber Mass which is usually under $200. Both work very well.

[suzumebachi]

Shit, I never would have thought of recording line out from an amp and running it through a cab sim... That's like best of both worlds. When I first got into recording guitars I tried line out from one of my amps and it sounded dry and horrible, but I didn't know about cab sims and stuff (if they even existed) at the time.

The only half decent amp I have anymore though is an older Ibanez 100w stage combo. Awesome for gigging but not the best studio amp to say the least. So I dunno how much good that would really do me.

[LuIzA]

interesting, I'll have to look into the Hotplates.

that's actually the very reason I never use more than one mic on an amp when I do record with mine... it can be very beneficial, yes, but I don't have the time or the patience to do stuff like that.

[Nabeel Ansari]

So Guitar Rig 4 isn't good for heavy metal kind of guitars?

This disappoints me, because I know own Guitar Rig 4 that came free with an expensive interface... but I WILL make this happen!

I WILL SHOW YOU ALL THAT I CAN CREATE GREAT METAL RHYTHM GUITAR TONES WITH GUITAR RIG 4! *proceeds to gloat to self and walks away mumbling*

[Brandon Strader]

So Guitar Rig 4 isn't good for heavy metal kind of guitars?

This disappoints me, because I know own Guitar Rig 4 that came free with an expensive interface... but I WILL make this happen!

I WILL SHOW YOU ALL THAT I CAN CREATE GREAT METAL RHYTHM GUITAR TONES WITH GUITAR RIG 4! *proceeds to gloat to self and walks away mumbling*

You can make a good tone with GR4 depending on your guitar. It sucks with my 7-string and I find the modeling in other sims is better. :3

I think Fishy uses GR4, I could be wrong -- his tone is pretty great.

Also if you were serious and weren't actually joking about making metal, you'd be the coolest kid in school. Just sayin'.

[The Dual Dragons]

So Guitar Rig 4 isn't good for heavy metal kind of guitars?

This disappoints me, because I know own Guitar Rig 4 that came free with an expensive interface... but I WILL make this happen!

I WILL SHOW YOU ALL THAT I CAN CREATE GREAT METAL RHYTHM GUITAR TONES WITH GUITAR RIG 4! *proceeds to gloat to self and walks away mumbling*

You can make great sound with Guitar rig, we only use guitar rig for our stuff. But if you're going live a lot, I wouldn't rely on Guitar rig.

Peace!

[LuIzA]

how about Guitar Rig for bass sounds?

[The Dual Dragons]

how about Guitar Rig for bass sounds?

Sure, should be fine. Since it's primarily designed for both electric guitar and bass.

[Nabeel Ansari]

You can make a good tone with GR4 depending on your guitar. It sucks with my 7-string and I find the modeling in other sims is better. :3

I think Fishy uses GR4, I could be wrong -- his tone is pretty great.

Also if you were serious and weren't actually joking about making metal, you'd be the coolest kid in school. Just sayin'.

Wasn't jokin, actually- I purchased a new audio interface and it came with Guitar Rig 4 Pro. I'm not that great at guitar yet, but the amp software makes me sound better than I really am which has caused me to practice a LOT more often.

You can make great sound with Guitar rig, we only use guitar rig for our stuff. But if you're going live a lot, I wouldn't rely on Guitar rig.

Peace!

Thanks for the response, now I know it's not hopeless. xD Because I heard that sick Mortal Kombat remix from you guys I'm actually not disappointed anymore.

[LuIzA]

Sure, should be fine. Since it's primarily designed for both electric guitar and bass.

I know, I'm wondering what people who tried it think.