BlackPanther Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Here's an example of what I'm talkin about: Ok the song is "Kill Everybody" by Skrillex for those who don't trust the link or whatever haha. Anyways what I want to get out of this is parts like 1:21 where shit gets really "disjointed" is the only way I can describe it. I need help breaking down and analyzing how those sections work. It's like commonplace to do that stuff now, but for whatever reason I can't figure out how they do it so well. Sometimes, a lot of those synths and fx carry no, what I'm gonna call, "tonal relevance" when they're implemented into songs so I get really confused on how artists even begin to think of stuff like that. Where should I begin if I want to start doing things like that? If this is still confusing, Wolfgang Gartner does it, Deadmau5 does it, even our very on PR does it in a lot of his stuff and you can hear it in A_rival's(AE) new song so listen to those guys xD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidd Cabbage Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 You're thinking about it the wrong way - these sections aren't about tonality. It's about bringing in different timbres. This is pretty much solely sound design, not music in pitches or harmony, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorax Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Well, for one thing, at 1:21 Skrillex adds the actual dubstep bass. I also think that he (she? they?) added a EQ limiter. That could be part of it. But I think that they first added the dubstep bass rhythm first, then built the rest around it here. Now, if your asking how they do dubstep bass, my answer is I don't know. But they basically cutoff the volume to add emphasis to the bass. That's the only way I can describe the "disjointed" sound your describing. And I am still not sure if this song should be called "electro house" or dubstep, because it may start out with Electro House/ DnB, but it's mostly dubstep. And I think IBBIAZ has it nailed down on your question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPanther Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Hmmmm. I think I understand what you're saying. Does that mean that there is still a melody going on, but with different colors going on to keep things sonically interesting? Please help me, I feel sooo... I don't know... "dumb?" with music right now lol . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kidd Cabbage Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Yes. The simplest way to understand it is to take a melody or rhythm, chop out each note, and put each note on a different sounding synth/instrument. That'll get the point the across to your ears. The trick is making it sound good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tefnek Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Make some sick bass patternz in Massive (preferably with the wobble), cut them up, paste them together. Then marvel at your electro dubstep genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPanther Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Oohhh. Ok ok, all of you guys have been super good help. And it's good to hear from you again Jack hehe. Thank you so much guys =D. Edit: Guess that means more dungeon time and less human interaction time again xD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorax Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Make some sick bass patternz in Massive (preferably with the wobble), cut them up, paste them together. Then marvel at your electro dubstep genius. ... That's one way to do it... No, seriously. I see what tefnek is saying.It doesn't mean I can do what he says because I don't have fruityloops or even the awful Reason and I don't have Massive either because I am a very cheap person Even if you don't have Massive, you can achieve this crazy bass crap with a good deal of synthesizers, if you (sort of) know what you're doing. When you're talking about the "disjointed" section, then IBBIAZ is right 100%. you cut up a melody and divide each note between different synths, and even split the chords too. Then split up the melody with the dub bass (that's what I am going to call it. Dub bass.) That should be what you are looking for. EDIT: In the three minutes it took for me to type this, you put your reply below. EDIT: Edit: Guess that means more dungeon time and less human interaction time again xD. Always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPanther Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 So if I do it Jack's way in regards to basslines and stuff, does that mean I would actually be recording the bass sound then feeding it back into whatever DaW I'm using so I can process it further? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrototypeRaptor Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Yes. The simplest way to understand it is to take a melody or rhythm, chop out each note, and put each note on a different sounding synth/instrument. That'll get the point the across to your ears. The trick is making it sound good. yup. goes back to Berg/Webern's concept of klangfarbenmelodie (what a word) where basically, you compose using timbres rather than pitches. however, since skrillex and his audience is still largely tonal, the trick is to do it so that it sounds... not like a 12 tone row, haha so, take a melodic idea, cut it up, and start adding things in the gaps. I keep trying to demonstrate this in a video, but it's rather difficult to say why exactly you choose to put a certain sound where... just takes some experimentation. you can also try to "sing" these sound effect passages out loud, then try to recreate them on your synths... this is actually how I start most of my fidget stuff. also, try not to go overboard with the cutting once you start... for an idea of its proper use listen to wolfgang rather than skrillex...he sounds like you're changing a radio station to a house beat most of the time. edit: here's one of my new favorite tracks that demonstrates a more melodic style of splicing, rather than skrillex's kitchen sink approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicThHedgog Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 This song theory wise,is not even close to being dub step, just really agressive electro house and it sounds sick. and by disjointed, im not sure if it lacks connection, just a bit more broken down (and people stop naming genres after synths, people have been using lfo synths b4 half of the kids in these fourms were born) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPanther Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 yup. goes back to Berg/Webern's concept of klangfarbenmelodie (what a word) where basically, you compose using timbres rather than pitches.however, since skrillex and his audience is still largely tonal, the trick is to do it so that it sounds... not like a 12 tone row, haha so, take a melodic idea, cut it up, and start adding things in the gaps. I keep trying to demonstrate this in a video, but it's rather difficult to say why exactly you choose to put a certain sound where... just takes some experimentation. you can also try to "sing" these sound effect passages out loud, then try to recreate them on your synths... this is actually how I start most of my fidget stuff. also, try not to go overboard with the cutting once you start... for an idea of its proper use listen to wolfgang rather than skrillex...he sounds like you're changing a radio station to a house beat most of the time. edit: here's one of my new favorite tracks that demonstrates a more melodic style of splicing, rather than skrillex's kitchen sink approach There's this one guy who goes by the handle nzmusic101 on youtube. I've been checkin out some of his videos and he's got a pretty good approach to what I was talkin about. All it takes now is to absorb the stuff from this thread and his videos and I should be making gold in no time haha xD. Thanks again guys =D. @Sonic - Not quite sure what you meant with labeling genres after synths lol =/. I like Mord Fustangs approach. I hope people go back to that because while I do enjoy skrillex's style, it does get out of hand sometime. I like more melodic approaches like the guy you linked us to. Thanks for showin me that PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 You don't have to cut up, even. Just record 4 channels of say, 1 minute of playing, and use automation on the volume. Like this: sounds like this: http://www.theheartcore.com/patch/mad_automation.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPanther Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Ah, good shit. I gotta get reacquainted with automation, I don't use it enough obviously >_>. Thanks Yoozer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC Ricers Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I also think about how these types of sections get produced. For me I'm more curious about managing the workflow with all the different sounds than the producing of the sounds themselves. For instance, if I listen to a Datsik track I sometimes think "How many voice tracks would he use for this section?" And then lay that down on top of a dozen or so percussion hits and samples. I just HATE having to scroll up and down a lot with channels/tracks. There are some timbres that only get used as half-second shots and I would rather integrate all the little odds and ends into one single track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrototypeRaptor Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I just HATE having to scroll up and down a lot with channels/tracks. There are some timbres that only get used as half-second shots and I would rather integrate all the little odds and ends into one single track. you would hate seeing some of my project windows.... also, once you're happy with a section you can always bounce it so that it is just a single track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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