How do I get around the 16 midi channel limitation?

[Brian]

My external digital piano only has 16 channels (actually 14 and the drum channel [10]; channel 2 is not usable for some reason). I'm sending midi data from FL Studio to the piano, which plays back the notes in real-time, and is then recorded to the ADC and into FL Studio. I need more channels, but I'm out of it. Any suggestions on how to overcome this? Any workarounds? I don't want to have to bounce the tracks; I'll need to be able to edit notes on the fly.

[Kanthos]

There's no way to get more than 16 channels out of your keyboard, so don't bother thinking about that route.

Firstly, find out if your DAW has a freeze function. It's not the same as bouncing to audio since you can unfreeze whenever you like and it'll be simpler (usually just hitting the Freeze/Unfreeze button rather than recording the incoming audio as a track and disabling the MIDI yourself). You aren't editing the MIDI on so many tracks at once that freezing wouldn't work, are you? If you are, you probably want to rethink your workflow, at least as far as how your digital piano fits into it.

You could try using one or more virtual instruments to approximate the sounds from your keyboard but allow for easier editing. Of course, if your computer can't handle doing that or you have no VSTs anything like the sounds on your keyboard and can't afford any, this route won't work, and you're back to bouncing or freezing.

But basically, those are the only alternatives you have: use other sound sources or use bouncing/freezing so that recording audio at different times lets you record more than 16 tracks from your keyboard.

[Flexstyle]

FL doesn't have freeze. So that's kinda out of the question. Unfortunately, you're probably going to have to just do some straight recording, and hope you can work with what you've got, unless I'm totally off-base.

[dannthr]

Two options:

Split the project up, record separately and then combine them.

- This means writing as if you had two keyboards, then load separate multis for each take. Feasibly, you could have as many tracks as you wanted this way.

Use program changes.

- You have to remember that in the OLD DAYS, we didn't have anything BUT hardware MIDI devices and we created program change data that is part of the MIDI standard protocol which allows a single MIDI channel to handle many instruments within a bank. Depending on how your banks are set-up, you can make a single MIDI track in your sequencer switch control over different channels OR you can make a single MIDI track in your sequencer switch patches within a selected bank.

This can be an easy way to manage a large scale song assuming you don't have more than 16 channels playing at once.

If your device is not reading channel 2, however, you may need to send it into a shop to get repaired--at least something to consider--my old JV1080 needs a new internal battery.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Bounce your audio and save your MIDI data somewhere else (in a channel that's not MIDI. Like open a Sampler channel and stick it in there) That way it's in the same project, and if you don't like your bounced audio, you still have the MIDI data and can just copy and paste right back in to edit it.

I'm doing this with Cinematic Strings: Monster Staccatos sample library because my computer sucks (and Cinematic Strings is crazy on CPU). I write the string parts I want, bounce the audio, and stick the MIDI in some obscure pattern number in some sampler channel with nothing loaded inside. It plays the wav of the string parts and I don't have to keep Monster Staccatos open or have to send MIDI to it.

[dannthr]

For Brian's information, "freezing" is not the simple operation for him, he's not using a VST.

He would have to RECORD a performance, and then switch out the MIDI track used.

He does not have to put his MIDI performance into some sample track--all he has to do is mute/unmute tracks individually.

Let's read the OP first, then respond...

[Nabeel Ansari]

For Brian's information, "freezing" is not the simple operation for him, he's not using a VST.

He would have to RECORD a performance, and then switch out the MIDI track used.

He does not have to put his MIDI performance into some sample track--all he has to do is mute/unmute tracks individually.

Let's read the OP first, then respond...

Okay, he said he sends MIDI from FL to his piano back into FL as audio.

So why not bounce the audio to free up the MIDI channel and store the data somewhere else so he can put something else in there? I don't understand how it's not a "simple operation".

You hit the record button.

[dannthr]

Okay, he said he sends MIDI from FL to his piano back into FL as audio.

So why not bounce the audio to free up the MIDI channel and store the data somewhere else so he can put something else in there? I don't understand how it's not a "simple operation".

You hit the record button.

When you use the wrong term, it can confuse people new to the operation of a DAW. Don't call it freezing.

Freeze is a VST specific operation.

There is no need to move the MIDI channel information to a nonMIDI track, all you have to do is MUTE the MIDI channel and it will no longer send MIDI data to the outboard keyboard.

Don't give people ridiculous operational advice when they're just learning how to use these things, it confuses them for the long-term.

[Nabeel Ansari]

When you use the wrong term, it can confuse people new to the operation of a DAW. Don't call it freezing.

Freeze is a VST specific operation.

There is no need to move the MIDI channel information to a nonMIDI track, all you have to do is MUTE the MIDI channel and it will no longer send MIDI data to the outboard keyboard.

Don't give people ridiculous operational advice when they're just learning how to use these things, it confuses them for the long-term.

My apologies on the vocabulary mix-up.

But what? Have more than one FL Studio MIDI Out go to the same MIDI channel? That's about as cluttered as my suggestion.

If he wants to keep using more than 16 MIDI Channels, things are gonna get messy when he has a whole bunch of MIDI Outs everywhere with some muted and some not. He can just have the 16 to know which ones he's using and then put the MIDI Data of an instrument he doesn't want to write for anymore (recording the audio for it, freeing up a MIDI Out) in some obscure pattern number that he's never gonna get to (only by going to it to retrieve the MIDI information). What you're suggesting is workflow clutter.

I semi agree that adding another MIDI Out (or some channel that doesn't send MIDI) for saved MIDI data is a bit "ridiculous", but adding a MIDI Out for every additional instrument he wants to send to one of 16 MIDI channels is just as cluttered as my suggestion is ridiculous.

If you're wondering how I got this from your post, he wants to use more than 16 MIDI channels. Muting one of them just reduces the number he can use, causing him to create another. That's the only way your suggestion works.

[dannthr]

Not at all, merely group your sessions properly.

If FL Studio has folders, create a folder for each session. 16 Channels each session (or in Brian's case 15, as he can not access 2), then mute a whole folder, record an audio channel for each folder (at least).

If FL Studio does not have folders, then group your tracks clearly.

Whatever FLStudio has for you to organize, whether its color coding your tracks, or simply just ordering them logically.

Organization is ALWAYS an important key element to any good session.

I regularly deal with 50+ channel sessions, it's just par for the course.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Not at all, merely group your sessions properly.

If FL Studio has folders, create a folder for each session. 16 Channels each session (or in Brian's case 15, as he can not access 2), then mute a whole folder, record an audio channel for each folder (at least).

If FL Studio does not have folders, then group your tracks clearly.

Whatever FL Studio has for you to organize, whether its color coding your tracks, or simply just ordering them logically.

Organization is ALWAYS an important key element to any good session.

I regularly deal with 50+ channel sessions, it's just par for the course.

I guess it could work that way, but the thing is that would only work if you had the patience to group and name everything. It takes more time, but I agree that it's a bit more efficient/"legible".

There's nothing wrong with my suggestion, though, but if it's too hard a concept for newbies then I'll step out of the thread. Good day.

[dannthr]

I guess it could work that way, but the thing is that would only work if you had the patience to group and name everything. It takes more time, but I agree that it's a bit more efficient/"legible".

There's nothing wrong with my suggestion, though, but if it's too hard a concept for newbies then I'll step out of the thread. Good day.

That is why professionals use templates.

[Nabeel Ansari]

That is why professionals use templates.

Word.

Okay, well my suggestion is still sitting in the thread for the OP. Guess I'm done here.

[Brian]

I like to keep things organized. On an orchestral score, they are organized from top to bottom starting with woodwinds and ending with strings. In order to overcome this, I could change the instruments during the song. However, there's more to it than just changing patches and banks. There are other CC midi data that needs to be changed respective to that instrument.

It's a trade-off. Either it's organization and speedier workflow, or getting around this limit. But 15 min of music, 500+ measures, and over 20 instruments is ridiculously cumbersome to keep track of. It's a medley.

Not at all, merely group your sessions properly.

If FL Studio has folders, create a folder for each session. 16 Channels each session (or in Brian's case 15, as he can not access 2), then mute a whole folder, record an audio channel for each folder (at least).

If FL Studio does not have folders, then group your tracks clearly.

Whatever FLStudio has for you to organize, whether its color coding your tracks, or simply just ordering them logically.

Organization is ALWAYS an important key element to any good session.

I regularly deal with 50+ channel sessions, it's just par for the course.

This may be the ticket If I have two tracks that share the same channel, will it automatically switch to the new midi settings of the other track (assuming they aren't playing simultaneously)?

Edit: To answer my question, no. Muting didn't even work (channel conflict still occurs even when it's muted). I even tried changing the Bank LSB (CC#32) settings via automation, still no (problems with switching instruments). I may have to run 2 FL Studios. The ends will be the same, but the means will be kinda disorganized and separated. Bounce the tracks from FL 2 and import them into FL 1. Any changes that need to be made would then have to be edited in FL 2 and rebounced again and again

Wait this sounds like a rewiring situation. FL2 as slave and FL1 as host, or something like that. During playback I can disable Midi output from FL2 and listen to the audio tracks from FL2 + Midi from FL1. This saves me from having to export/import the wav files. Brilliant! but... I don't know how to do this lol:tomatoface:

[Gario]

Not familiar with FL, specifically, but whenever I needed to change a function on a MIDI I would set a program script to a different number (0-127) at the particular time frame in question. Not sure if that's viable or not, but that's how I worked around the midi channel limit, back in the day when I wrote MIDIs. I'm sure someone around here could verify if that's possible on FL.

Sheesh, it's been close to five years, already...

[Brian]

Not familiar with FL, specifically, but whenever I needed to change a function on a MIDI I would set a program script to a different number (0-127) at the particular time frame in question. Not sure if that's viable or not, but that's how I worked around the midi channel limit, back in the day when I wrote MIDIs. I'm sure someone around here could verify if that's possible on FL.

Sheesh, it's been close to five years, already...

Yes, this is possible by editing the events or via automation. Though In FL it's represented as percentages and not 0-127 (yuck). I have no problems with changing the Prgm patches, but Bank LSB (CC#32) doesn't seem to work. Bank LSB (CC#32) for my piano is used to change instruments of the same Prgm patch. ie. Grand Piano 1 (Natural) and Grand Piano 1 (GM) both share the same patch #, but their Bank LSB is different (122 and 0 respectively). I have a manual containing all the CC# and midi data.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Yes, this is possible by editing the events or via automation. Though In FL it's represented as percentages and not 0-127 (yuck). I have no problems with changing the Prgm patches, but Bank LSB (CC#32) doesn't seem to work. Bank LSB (CC#32) for my piano is used to change instruments of the same Prgm patch. ie. Grand Piano 1 (Natural) and Grand Piano 1 (GM) both share the same patch #, but their Bank LSB is different (122 and 0 respectively). I have a manual containing all the CC# and midi data.

You can change the min and max of an automation clip. You can't broaden it, but you can narrow it down. If the patches you want are within 100 patches of each other, set the difference between the min and max to about (my calculator says) about 78.7% (so do 79 cuz FL doesn't do decimals. Don't worry, won't raise past 100 patches), raising the min and lowering the max to the minimum and maximum patches of range you want for that specific clip. That way, each percentage value from 1-100 gives you 100 patches in your Bank LSB or whatever (for instance i can get patches 15 through 115 as the range in my audio clip). Also, make sure you're setting the Bank LSB as a MIDI Control Knob in your MIDI Out screen for the channel you want to change.

You're gonna have to either do some algebra to find out what each patch number equates to in percentage, or just trial and error it to hell.

[dannthr]

Brian, you have two possible issues on your hands.

1) You already know that your keyboard is a bit broken, if you're certain it receives bank change data on #32 and it is not properly receiving it, then there may be something wrong with your keyboard (more than it just not receiving data on MIDI ch 2).

2) Mute should work, if FL Studio does not mute all MIDI data in that track, then that is a failure of the FLStudio software archetecture--if that's the case, hack it however you have to for now, but keep your eye out for a new DAW.

Finally, in regards to your questions about using separate MIDI tracks. You will want to initialize all your MIDI tracks at the beginning of the track with significant MIDI adjustments (vol, patch, etc, etc). MIDI is a stream of musical data and your keyboard does not "know" that you have changed to a new MIDI track. It will retain on each channel the last settings it was given.

[Nabeel Ansari]

2) Mute should work, if FL Studio does not mute all MIDI data in that track, then that is a failure of the FLStudio software archetecture--if that's the case, hack it however you have to for now, but keep your eye out for a new DAW.

Mute does work for MIDI Outs, I don't know why it doesn't work for Brian.

I just checked, too, if muting would stop sending MIDI data through a MIDI channel.

Brian, make sure you're muting the channel in the step sequencer (the little green light/button) and not just turning the volume down. You need to deactivate the channel, not suppress it.

[Brian]

I found out channel 2 is reserved for something else on the piano, it's not broken.

I just found a way to use double the amount I have! In Midi Settings under Output, there was two ports I could use. I simply set the first one to port 0 and the second to port 1, and it worked!!! They are treated independently of each other. I just hope I don't use up the second one

[Nabeel Ansari]

I found out channel 2 is reserved for something else on the piano, it's not broken.

I just found a way to use double the amount I have! In Midi Settings under Output, there was two ports I could use. I simply set the first one to port 0 and the second to port 1, and it worked!!! They are treated independently of each other. I just hope I don't use up the second one

So you didn't know there was more ports on your piano?

I was assuming when you said only 16 you meant ONLY 16.

[Brian]

So you didn't know there was more ports on your piano?

I was assuming when you said only 16 you meant ONLY 16.

Yeah sorry about that. I didn't know lol. 16 per port (minus the channel 2 on port 1). So I have total 30 channels + 1 percussion channel (10).