Ff7 shinra

[HoboKa]

CURRENT: http://www.mediafire.com/?e5ilhoh1n8etdy7

Source tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bITrS-GQjAw

Yeah this is pretty conservative at the time being - wasn't too sure where I wanted to go with this, but I was inspired to work on it nonetheless >.< ...and now it has evolved into something I was definitely not expecting.

I NEEDZ TEH FEEDBAKZ. Pweez :3

[Monobrow]

Yo:

The intro is pretty cool. I think maybe the 2 repeats may be a bit too long.

:26 comes in... There's some dissonance there. Also it's not in the same key as the intro, which kind of throws you off a bit (not in a good way).

The brass samples IMO don't really work, they are just too jarring in comparison to the atmosphere. If anything, I'd cut them out of the mix, or at least, save them for later after a build. Try a synth there instead, something that really builds before you introduce your later synths. I also hear a choir there, behind the brass... IMO that would probably sound better (and not lost) if the brass were cut.

Also, one of your notes in the ShinRA progression is incorrect, and is supposed to play a step up from the previous note. (1:02/1:03)... Whether it's intentional or not, IMO it's not a good choice.

Also that synth that is playing eighth notes up and down, it seems kinda corny in comparison (again), to the vibe of the rest of the song. Try some different settings, experiment with a better replacement there. Also I think the soloing it kinda has throughout the middle of the song may be a bit half-hearted... Don't be afraid to get some faster note-soloing in there, just feel it out.

The guitar comes in, IMO it does work w/ the vibe you have, so kudos there... Might want to work on the EQ though, it's a bit overpowering.

Overall, not bad!... Keep working on it and see what you can come up with!

[HoboKa]

Yo:

The intro is pretty cool. I think maybe the 2 repeats may be a bit too long.

:26 comes in... There's some dissonance there. Also it's not in the same key as the intro, which kind of throws you off a bit (not in a good way).

The brass samples IMO don't really work, they are just too jarring in comparison to the atmosphere. If anything, I'd cut them out of the mix, or at least, save them for later after a build. Try a synth there instead, something that really builds before you introduce your later synths. I also hear a choir there, behind the brass... IMO that would probably sound better (and not lost) if the brass were cut.

Also, one of your notes in the ShinRA progression is incorrect, and is supposed to play a step up from the previous note. (1:02/1:03)... Whether it's intentional or not, IMO it's not a good choice.

Also that synth that is playing eighth notes up and down, it seems kinda corny in comparison (again), to the vibe of the rest of the song. Try some different settings, experiment with a better replacement there. Also I think the soloing it kinda has throughout the middle of the song may be a bit half-hearted... Don't be afraid to get some faster note-soloing in there, just feel it out.

The guitar comes in, IMO it does work w/ the vibe you have, so kudos there... Might want to work on the EQ though, it's a bit overpowering.

Overall, not bad!... Keep working on it and see what you can come up with!

Well - it's good to have feedback, even if it feels like a cement truck had dumped its load on your shoulders lol. Wow...that sounds wrong, oh well. The keychange at :26 is in the source tune, which I also found a bit jarring, so I may switch that up per suggestion.

The note change in the Shinra progression was indeed intentional; I'll consider changing it back.

The synth soloing was written at 4 am last night lol. I'm surprised it turned out cogent at all - if not corny, as you've said - though I'm gonna probably keep it for the E-guitar segment at 2:35; I may also change the sample - also, I will try some faster notation, probably at the apex of that 4-bar segment.

But on a side-note, I was a bit dissapointed that you didn't dig the retro sample; cuz to me, it reminds me of some of the older OCR remixes (and thus has a nostalgic VG feel to it)...can't remember their names off the top of my head - but I think Mako Eyes used a similar sample as my retro-synth.

I'm relieved that the guitar samples worked for u though, cuz they are the best of my rather limited library (and I don't feel like torrenting 80gigs worth of hyper-advanced VST crap lol). All the other crits that I didn't mention in my response are also helpful, so...

Thanks for the feedback Mono

[HoboKa]

http://www.mediafire.com/?e5ilhoh1n8etdy7

[Darangen]

Mono made a lot of good points.

As is, this is still a pretty conservative track and probably wouldn't be up to OCR's standard in that light. Here are a few things that you could do to start liberating yourself from the original feel to get this to be less conservative:

1) Change up the drums. You can still have the same feel, but having the same pattern almost to a tee makes it hard to think of anything but the original. Drums can make or break a great track as they're often what gives the energy to the song, so making sure you have a fitting beat is very important. Change it up a bit, make it less static.

Change some notes! This could be approached from many angles including adding an original lead somewhere, changing the chordal progression underneath, or something more daring like going from a minor to a major key (usually very hard to pull of well). The synthy lead around 2:35 is a good start in this direction, but work on it some more still. I like the idea but it could be done much better, try adding some modulation/automation to bring it to life a bit more.

Other things that would obviously help out a lot are:

- Real guitars (2:35ish)

- Better drum sounds (Keeping the feel of the originals kick is fine, but layer it with some other sounds to beef it up)

- A better transition from the intro to the first section (:25ish). The stop-and-go thing that is happening now is odd.

- A moving bass line. (I'm listening on work speakers, but I don't hear much in the bass department at all)

Keep at it and don't give up, it's a good start! This is one of my favorites from FF7

[HoboKa]

Mono made a lot of good points.

As is, this is still a pretty conservative track and probably wouldn't be up to OCR's standard in that light. Here are a few things that you could do to start liberating yourself from the original feel to get this to be less conservative:

1) Change up the drums. You can still have the same feel, but having the same pattern almost to a tee makes it hard to think of anything but the original. Drums can make or break a great track as they're often what gives the energy to the song, so making sure you have a fitting beat is very important. Change it up a bit, make it less static.

Change some notes! This could be approached from many angles including adding an original lead somewhere, changing the chordal progression underneath, or something more daring like going from a minor to a major key (usually very hard to pull of well). The synthy lead around 2:35 is a good start in this direction, but work on it some more still. I like the idea but it could be done much better, try adding some modulation/automation to bring it to life a bit more.

Other things that would obviously help out a lot are:

- Real guitars (2:35ish)

- Better drum sounds (Keeping the feel of the originals kick is fine, but layer it with some other sounds to beef it up)

- A better transition from the intro to the first section (:25ish). The stop-and-go thing that is happening now is odd.

- A moving bass line. (I'm listening on work speakers, but I don't hear much in the bass department at all)

Keep at it and don't give up, it's a good start! This is one of my favorites from FF7

Okay, looks like I've got my work cut out for me lol. Not sure how to fix the E-guitar thing, I'll prob have to call a few favors on that one. The other crits are definitely within my reach though and I'll do my best to fix the issues.

Thanks for your feedback Darangen! (BTW, mega fan of your remixes too =p)

[Ethan Rex]

That kick sounds a little punchy in the beginning. good orchestral elements for the most part. the drums are noticeably lacking in production: get some better samples or layer drums better (especially that kick). I'm not too excited about the synth either, but its not terrible. e-guitar works well.

reading over the comments, i agree with a lot of what was said here. arrangement is very conservative; Darangen gave some good tips on mixing it up. it also wouldn't hurt to take the chord progression of the source and solo a bit to keep things interesting. If this is finished writing-wise, i'd let the piano sustain for a bit more at the end; right now the end seems abrupt.

Keep up the good work!

[hewhoisiam]

First off. I'm not dead. Just been away a few days. I'm making myself finish something, so not moving on made me burn out for a few months. I should have something up by the end of the week (or else)

Anyway, the track.

Drums - Get kinda stale in places. I'd add another drum track entirely, using the same synth. Put your kick, snare, and the hats that will repeat a lot on one track, then use the other for ghost notes (snare off beats) kick fills (not 2 and 4) Then when you want to change little things like for a transition, it's really easy. I'm starting to do this with my tunes. If you want to layer the sounds, you can do this inserting another synth and just fix the sounds you want.

If you want to help out that bass drum, EQ the lows down a bit and the mids up, less thud more body.

Some crescendo effects could really make those dark orchestral sounds pop. They're good now, but they could be great with some dynamics.

This could use some subtle additions early on to keep it interesting the whole way through. A synth echoing melody or a soft arpeggio, something in the background.

The end needs a bit of writing done imho. I get the effect you're going for, but it's kinda boring. The slowdown now with the drums and piano grinding to a halt doesn't do it for me. I picture the drums cutting out before it being too slow, and the piano spiced up a lil.

It's conservative, but this is the biggest criticism leveled at me, so uh

[HoboKa]

Thanks for input crits hewo and Rex. Got some useful tidbits and ideas from both things, and hopefully I'll get the energy to actually work on my remix again

As it stands, I feel there is a lot of work - particularly on the conservatim (yeah I made that word up...ooh and it rhymes with verbatim:tomatoface:).

Oy, I find that I have all these great ideas, but when I do remixes for OCR, I feel so confined and a lot of my ideas seem to explode in the hanger before I even put them to the test. Dunno why I keep on tormenting myself, but anyways =p, I'll give it another whirl.

[Darangen]

Keep pressing forward

A lot of times trying to get what's in your head into your music software can be frustrating, but it gets easier with time. Just remember to have fun, and if it stops being fun just walk away from it for a little while and come by with a re-freshened mind. Sometimes that's all you need, a little break.

As for feeling confined, I would recommend not focusing so much on meeting certain standards and focusing more on expressing yourself the way you want to. If you want to make something close to the source, you should. If you want to be expansive and do a lot of personal interpretation with the source, go for it. While it's good to have goals, whether that be getting your mix posted here on OCR or just making something you want to be able to share with your friends, it's more important to enjoy what you're doing so make sure at the end of the day you like what you're doing.

[HoboKa]

Keep pressing forward

A lot of times trying to get what's in your head into your music software can be frustrating, but it gets easier with time. Just remember to have fun, and if it stops being fun just walk away from it for a little while and come by with a re-freshened mind. Sometimes that's all you need, a little break.

As for feeling confined, I would recommend not focusing so much on meeting certain standards and focusing more on expressing yourself the way you want to. If you want to make something close to the source, you should. If you want to be expansive and do a lot of personal interpretation with the source, go for it. While it's good to have goals, whether that be getting your mix posted here on OCR or just making something you want to be able to share with your friends, it's more important to enjoy what you're doing so make sure at the end of the day you like what you're doing.

Yeah, it's a pretty tough balance for me to meet (i.e. the balance between enjoying remixing and catering to everyone's opinions here). And it's pretty taxing emotionally and sometimes even physically - which of course, is mostly of my own doing as I tend to over-analyze everything. Still, I feel I can contribute to this website regardless, if my brain would just focus properly ><

For what it's worth, thanks for your support Darangen. It's kind of a surreal feeling to have a veteran remixer giving me a pep talk

(BTW, what's with your sig =P)

[Darangen]

My sig is in relevance to http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38309&highlight=killer+studio+chops - kind of an OCR joke now. djpretzel posted the picture and I couldn't get enough of it, so I put it in my sig

[Chimpazilla]

Hey Hobo,

I know exactly how you feel. I feel your words! I just went through this myself recently too. You will get a thicker skin if you stick around here. Just remember that if people are giving you crits, they are trying to be helpful, not trying to tear you down. If you can look at it that way, that's half the battle right there. And if they used sweet, sugar-coated babyish words, they would be treating you as a noob and not a peer, this is not what you want... so thicken up that skin and get used to it, 'cause it's all good.

I know sometimes the crits sound harsh and they hurt. That's OK, I think everyone reacts that way. Here's what to do after that cement truck dumps on your head. Go for a walk, feed the cat, whatever, but get away from the screen and let the words settle. After an hour or so, the sting fades and the suggestions made will stick in your head. Then the next morning in the shower, "aha!" you'll suddenly have an idea of how to implement that suggested change. Dry off, proceed to your computer and implement the change.

I have a new strategy for composing. Start with a basic idea, and lay out the very basic groundwork for your arrangement, then post it here or ask a good friend who knows what he/she is doing. Get crits on that part first, as this is the foundation of your project, and once that is working well, only then work on other aspects, then get more crits, etc. until you've put the frosting on the cake and it's finished. If you work (and get feedback) in stages, you'll have an easier time fixing what is wrong before getting so deeply into it that it's a huge pain to fix... make sense? Anyway, this seems to be working for me.

Also... if a remix just isn't working for you, if it is causing you pain even if it seems pretty good so far, don't be afraid to put it to the side and try some other ideas. Sometimes this will kick start the old project, other times the new project may just be better in every way. And a few days break in between all of this is a really REALLY good idea, even if you feel desperate to keep hacking away at it, your brain needs the break, go do something else for no less than 24 hours.

The main thing to remember is that everybody feels this way at some point or other, regardless of skill level. You are not alone! We all get past it.

Happy thoughts!

[Darangen]

Start with a basic idea, and lay out the very basic groundwork for your arrangement, then post it here or ask a good friend who knows what he/she is doing. Get crits on that part first, as this is the foundation of your project, and once that is working well, only then work on other aspects, then get more crits, etc. until you've put the frosting on the cake and it's finished. If you work (and get feedback) in stages, you'll have an easier time fixing what is wrong before getting so deeply into it that it's a huge pain to fix... make sense?

Solid advice, that's what I usually do as well. I don't always post for feedback unless I'm trying something new that I'm not too familiar with, but starting with basic layout and building on that is how I do things.

[hewhoisiam]

My sig is in relevance to http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38309&highlight=killer+studio+chops - kind of an OCR joke now. djpretzel posted the picture and I couldn't get enough of it, so I put it in my sig

...This thread is locked?! Why would you lock such an awesome thread?!

And stick with it, my last break took months. I'm making sure I don't burn out that bad ever again. I've seen your stuff off and on here at OCR, I don't just pour honey in your ear when I say that you're improving a lot (and pushing out more work than me:tomatoface:)

[HoboKa]

Hey Hobo,

I know exactly how you feel. I feel your words! I just went through this myself recently too. You will get a thicker skin if you stick around here. Just remember that if people are giving you crits, they are trying to be helpful, not trying to tear you down. If you can look at it that way, that's half the battle right there. And if they used sweet, sugar-coated babyish words, they would be treating you as a noob and not a peer, this is not what you want... so thicken up that skin and get used to it, 'cause it's all good.

I know sometimes the crits sound harsh and they hurt. That's OK, I think everyone reacts that way. Here's what to do after that cement truck dumps on your head. Go for a walk, feed the cat, whatever, but get away from the screen and let the words settle. After an hour or so, the sting fades and the suggestions made will stick in your head. Then the next morning in the shower, "aha!" you'll suddenly have an idea of how to implement that suggested change. Dry off, proceed to your computer and implement the change.

I have a new strategy for composing. Start with a basic idea, and lay out the very basic groundwork for your arrangement, then post it here or ask a good friend who knows what he/she is doing. Get crits on that part first, as this is the foundation of your project, and once that is working well, only then work on other aspects, then get more crits, etc. until you've put the frosting on the cake and it's finished. If you work (and get feedback) in stages, you'll have an easier time fixing what is wrong before getting so deeply into it that it's a huge pain to fix... make sense? Anyway, this seems to be working for me.

Also... if a remix just isn't working for you, if it is causing you pain even if it seems pretty good so far, don't be afraid to put it to the side and try some other ideas. Sometimes this will kick start the old project, other times the new project may just be better in every way. And a few days break in between all of this is a really REALLY good idea, even if you feel desperate to keep hacking away at it, your brain needs the break, go do something else for no less than 24 hours.

The main thing to remember is that everybody feels this way at some point or other, regardless of skill level. You are not alone! We all get past it.

Happy thoughts!

The sad thing is, I'm not new here, and I started off on a pretty bad foot. Your remixing strategy does make sense though and I'll give it a whirl - wow I think I've been here since 2007 - but I do have a remix that will be posted soon-ish :3

Also Darangen, I found the thread that you linked to be somewhat depressing, at least the first page of it, so I didn't really get far into it. Maybe it's cuz I can relate to the poor sod who created the thread lol.

[hewhoisiam]

I have so many bad troll things that will never see the light of day because that thread is locked!

I used to have killer studio chops , Then I took an arrow to the knee!

Yo Dawg! I heard you like music degrees?!

But, it's not sad that you've been here. That's what we like to call dedication!

[Chimpazilla]

The sad thing is, I'm not new here, and I started off on a pretty bad foot. Your remixing strategy does make sense though and I'll give it a whirl - wow I think I've been here since 2007 - but I do have a remix that will be posted soon-ish :3

Sounds like you should be giving out this kind of advice then, not requiring it, haha! Hope it made you smile anyway. And congrats in advance on the nearly posted mix, I'll keep my eyes open for it. With any luck I'll be right behind ya.

[HoboKa]

Sounds like you should be giving out this kind of advice then, not requiring it, haha! Hope it made you smile anyway. And congrats in advance on the nearly posted mix, I'll keep my eyes open for it. With any luck I'll be right behind ya.

I wouldn't want to be right behind me :3 ...so...bloated today.