pokemoneinstein Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Inspired mostly by "Skyward," I decided to take a crack at remixing the Ballad of the Windfish. I think it's coming along nicely so far, though it certainly has its flaws. But I'd like to get opinions on how you all think the first minute or so is sounding, since I'm still relatively new at this. Thoughts, anyone? Original: Link (v1): http://www.box.com/s/2pct4mf99bq7huqqjafx Version 1.2: http://www.box.com/s/tvupkmb0gmkilkqli8dh Version 1.3: http://www.box.com/s/73e69713c17dd0f8bac7 Version 2: https://www.box.com/s/626be9cf23480b131969 Version 3: https://www.box.com/s/878392f48680e0edc6fb Version 1.2 changes: Essentially took most, if not all of Jean Of mArc's suggestions Version 1.3 changes: Started to work on the bridge Version 2 changes: First version of the completed song; added cameo themes: Kakariko Village, Great Sea, Clock Town, Mabe Village, Island in the Sky, Outset Island, Hyrule Market Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Of mArc Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hey pokemoneinstein! Thanks for posting! I always love a good piano solo; they tend to make for some great arrangements; hence why one is released for every Final Fantasy game. The first thing that stood out to me was how mechanical the piano in the bass sounded. It seemed almost as if it were one dynamic, and every single eighth note plays a bass note at exactly the same tempo. Usually piano solos have a certain sense of "tempo breathing", in which the tempo has a bit of give to it. If you are only in "arrangement" mode and aren't concerned about that yet, then that's fine. I did hear more depth in the main melody, though, which was nice. My other concern was with the strings. You obviously have a cool swooshing idea going on their, probably representing the waves, which is a good idea. However, they sound so artificial to me that it actually takes AWAY from the piano sound to me, rather than contributing to it. Also, there are a few moments when the strings almost overtake the piano when its playing the melody. I would recommend only allowing the strings to come out whenever the melody is not in progress, unless the melody is holding down a note or resting. I would recommend listening to some similar music, and if possible its sheet music, to get some ideas and inspirations for how you can continue on with this. Some of the music of Jon Schmidt comes to mind. Anyway, this shows promise, and I think you have a good style for the mix in mind. I hope my notes, and those of others, can help you to improve on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thank you so much for that. I've always been bothered by the bass, but I couldn't put my finger on it. And the other criticisms are very helpful, as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I've added Version 1.3. I'm starting to work on a bridge, but there's something lacking. I'm thinking of keeping the strings and vibes there, but I wanted to go back to just pure piano. But if feels like there's something lacking or just not right, and I'm not sure what. Anyone got any ideas to help me out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Of mArc Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Hey pokemonistein, Wow, this is already a huge improvement over your first version! I think your musical sense is there, so it was just a matter of knowing how to convert that into a digital medium, which can be a challenge at times. Improvements: - The bass is much more organic playback-wise than it was before, especially with its dynamics. - The tempo has a bit of give to it, which is nice. - The volume difference between the treble sounds about right. - The strings are much more subdued than they were before. - The vibraphone is a great addition, it really adds some brightness to the mix! From here: - The some separation of frequencies between the vibraphones and other parts may need to occur. - The strings are almost TOO quiet now: they could probably come up just a tad. - The bass, though much improved, is still much more active than the main line, which means it can be hard not to distract us from the melody. At the same time, without it this arrangement wouldn't have that rhythmic motion it now enjoys. Perhaps a different instrument, other than the piano, could be used for the bassline? Maybe a stringed instrument, or even the vibes? If you'd really like the piano, perhaps make it more subtle while the melody is playing? - I feel like this whole mix could benefit from being raised a few keys, as it feels a bit on the lower end to me... but that's left to personal preference. If it's not too hard, give it a shot and see what you think. As for your bridge, going high in the melody is a great idea. Why don't you bring the bass up higher at this point as well? It doesn't have to stay there, but the contrast would add more interest to the bridge, and identify it as being different than what came before, which is always the goal of a bridge. As for its composition, I'll wait to see how you flesh it out before commenting any more. I think this mix could benefit from other peoples' input as well... where is everyone!? Either way, keep it up! I'll continue to check out your revisions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Alright, thanks for all of your advice! Now when you suggest bringing up the bass in the bridge, are you talking about an octave or just a few keys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Of mArc Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Alright, thanks for all of your advice! Now when you suggest bringing up the bass in the bridge, are you talking about an octave or just a few keys? Probably an octave so that it sounds harmonically consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 I tried both. i think I'll play around with instrumentation a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 I finished the song, if anyone here still cares. Please have a listen, all comments and criticisms are more than welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Of mArc Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hey pokemonistein, I'm listening to it right now, and I care! I'm too tired to give good feedback at the moment, but I can say that I like what I'm hearing! It certainly sounds like an improvement over the original, and the development is nice too. I'll try to give more when I'm awake enough to do it well. Good work man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Great, can't wait to hear what you say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Eww, horrible choice of source vid. Good thing I've heard more than enough of the original. Source is obviously there, and it's a cool take on it. I like it. I like the choice of background sounds. I like them more than the piano, actually. The piano's loud notes are a bit too loud. You might wanna even out the velocities / compress the audio a bit to get it under control. The worst offenders are the ones that jump out, like at 0:35. Really, the piano is the only problem I have with it. The low range is robotic and controlled, while the upper range is too dynamic. The piano could use some brightening too, whether a subtle touch of EQ or through controlled multiband compression. In any case, I'd want the piano under control before I'd pass this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Believe me, I've looked for a better one. It's not a big deal, though, since this theme is so well-known. Alright, I brightened the piano a teensy bit and evened out the louder notes (all of them I could find, anyway). And can you clarify what you mean by "too dynamic"? I'd argue that if there were any major problem, it'd be that it repeats itself with no variation form the first time around at the very end. And the velocities of the low notes are pretty varying, so I assume you meant that they were mostly eighth notes. I humanized the timing, but I think it actually sounds much worse. You're the expert here, so maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. Regardless, here's the new version: With bass timing altered: https://www.box.com/s/33dbd30c79f7fa53c70e Without bass timing altered: https://www.box.com/s/411cf44d7481a7aeedb5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Of mArc Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hey pokemoneinstein, Sorry it's taken me so long to get to this; was on a trip to see the family. I'm glad to see someone else give feedback about this piece besides me. First, it's really nice to hear it all in a completed form. The length feels about right, it has both source and original material, and it develops well, so good job on getting all that just right. My only complaints would actually be the same as Rozo's. When he is saying it's "too dynamic" I think he means there is too big of a difference between the soft notes and the loud notes. This has less to do with volume than it has to do with pressure, I think. It sounds like the piano player is slamming finger down on certain notes, especially compared to the other notes. It's not too "loud", just a bit too "hard", if that makes any sense. Not sure how much control you have over that with the software you use. A note that I noticed as an example is the "hard" note at 0:22. Because the piano is so prominent, even small variations in strength have a big effect, it doesn't need to have a big difference to be noticed, so don't think that narrowing the difference between the two will make your piece less dynamic than before. I really like all the little embellishments you've got in there, with the strings and bells. They are all well-placed and suit the piece wonderfully. Actually, I wouldn't be afraid to add a bit more of it, if you're up to the task. Not necessary though. Either way, you've got a pretty solid, relaxing, enjoyable mix here, and I'm adding it to my library whether it makes it on OCR or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 Well thanks very much for that! It makes total sense. What do you think of the different bass line versions I posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Anybody? Bass note feedback? Please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Eww, horrible choice of source vid. Good thing I've heard more than enough of the original. Source is obviously there, and it's a cool take on it. I like it.I like the choice of background sounds. I like them more than the piano, actually. The piano's loud notes are a bit too loud. You might wanna even out the velocities / compress the audio a bit to get it under control. The worst offenders are the ones that jump out, like at 0:35. Really, the piano is the only problem I have with it. The low range is robotic and controlled, while the upper range is too dynamic. The piano could use some brightening too, whether a subtle touch of EQ or through controlled multiband compression. In any case, I'd want the piano under control before I'd pass this. I was about to write up my assessment and then saw one written up by Rozo - and he pretty much covered all of the points I wanted to raise in this mix. Left hand part of the piano definitely sounds robotic, and it becomes more and more apparent as it goes on, as it repeats pretty much through the entire mix. I also didn't quite love the piano sound, and I would try all of the production tweaks that Rozo recommends. I also felt that while there are parts that are just piano, and parts where you have strings, there was little in terms of intensity changing, the mix feels like it has the same level of intensity throughout. I think you can definitely make the mix a bit more dramatic and emotional. Right now the mix sounds somewhat repetitive and you could definitely change that by making the parts where strings come in more dramatic. Don't be afraid to bring some bass in on those strings either, even layer it with a synth bass so that they have more of an impact. While I understand that you are going for a mellow arrangement, my opinion is that right now it is a little too subdued and could use some tweaking. I really like where you are going with this, reminds me of The Fountain soundtrack, which is a good thing! EDIT: Listened to the version where you changed timing on the bass note - that's a bit too much. It needs to be more subtle. I am far from being the top authority on sequencing piano parts in a humanized fashion, but it not only timing, it is also velocities, samples, and EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokemoneinstein Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 New version: https://www.box.com/s/878392f48680e0edc6fb Critiques, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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