Donkey Kong Country 2 - Forest Interlude (Orchestral Arrangement)

[Pumpkin King]

I don't really think this is a "remix" exactly, but more just an orchestral version of the tune (sorta the same with my version of Aquatic Ambience on my youtube channel). However, I'd still like to share it to see what people think.

Source tune:

My arrangement:

[Pumpkin King]

Alright, I had to re-upload this back to youtube due to some problems I hadn't noticed. Now it's finished... at least I believe so, haha. Enjoy.

[Skizor]

First of all i like this, in my opinion DK music is one of the best in VGmusic.

Question time =)

Which DAW did you use to make this? And did you program the synths yourself?

Noticed a slight melody change at 1:40, kinda got disoriented here, but it's cool. I like when people gets creative with the melody.

Now, since this is an orchestral arrangement, i was hoping for a big climax at 2:14.

That part in the Original mix, I find very uplifting and tense. But in this mix it was more like a break for me and it lost my attention.

Maybe, build up to that point more. Have a break up to it, and launch it of with the whole ensemble. And maybe keep the original melody here?

Keep up the good work =) Now im going to listen to your arrangement of Aquatic Ambience =D

peace

[Pumpkin King]

First of all i like this, in my opinion DK music is one of the best in VGmusic.

Question time =)

Which DAW did you use to make this? And did you program the synths yourself?

Noticed a slight melody change at 1:40, kinda got disoriented here, but it's cool. I like when people gets creative with the melody.

Now, since this is an orchestral arrangement, i was hoping for a big climax at 2:14.

That part in the Original mix, I find very uplifting and tense. But in this mix it was more like a break for me and it lost my attention.

Maybe, build up to that point more. Have a break up to it, and launch it of with the whole ensemble. And maybe keep the original melody here?

Keep up the good work =) Now im going to listen to your arrangement of Aquatic Ambience =D

peace

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback!

So I used Garageband for this. That's all really. I have these Jam packs with it that I'm always using. As far as programming sounds, it was more just editing the attack and decay of the strings and all for a nice flow. And a bit of reverb plus some delay, among other random stuff.

For the part at 2:14, I see what you're saying. It was more of a break than a high moment in the song, somewhat. I think that mostly had to do with the string patterns behind the main melody. But I could, say, repeat that verse twice... with the second verse implementing all of the instruments for the xylophone/marimba melody, including a stronger, more powerful chord pattern with the flowing strings in the back. But that may differ a bit with the current structure of the song. It's an idea, and I'll keep it in mind when I do more of these, for sure. I do think I should be taking more risks if I want to do a remix. It's just with some songs, especially things from DKC, I feel that I should stay mostly true to the source track, mainly because so many of the songs from the DKC series were so well done... and I just would like to hear some of them orchestrated. I wouldn't want to do anything completely different, unless I'm covering it on the piano.

[Rozovian]

Source is obviously there. This feels mostly like an elaborate midi rip, with so much source verbatim. It's more like source+strings rather than the usual source+drums. Idon't think it's different enough for ocr.

Could have more dynamics in the strings. Piano is really bright, especially when compared to the xylophone combo. At other times the strings try to dominate when it's clear that you already have a different lead. Then there's the late lead layers (2:37) that seem excessively loud and bright - which makes sense, they need to stand out against the strings... Why are the strings so freaking loud?

Instrument placing could be given some more thought; you have some sweet sound choices here but they kind'a seem like they've got some random reverbs and stuff on them, not a deliberate placement (I'm talking depth/distance here, not pan, altho that can also be used).

So yeah, sounds are ok but the mixing seems to have been used mostly just to make things loud, not to actually give instruments their own place in the mix. Read up on mixing techniques, separating tracks, and experiment with not having every track so loud.

Drums could be cleaned up, they seem like a raw preset kit with some eq on it, nothing more. You can copy the entire track and just remove notes from the copy and original - this practically gives you multiple outs on the drums, so you can process them separately.

It doesn't feel humanized much, the notes seem to stay at the same velocity and all seem quantized. You'd need to make them more human to have a shot at getting on ocr.

ARRANGEMENT / INTERPRETATION

- Too conservative - sticks too close to the source

PRODUCTION

- Too loud - possibly; the strings certainly are

- Unrealistic sequencing - needs to be more dynamic and human

- Overcompressed (pumping/no dynamics) - can't say for sure because I don't have an mp3, but the loud parts may well be pushing it

- Mixing is muddy (eg. too many sounds in the same range) - some instruments get buried under others, the strings are at fault again

STRUCTURE

- Not enough changes in sounds (eg. static texture, not dynamic enough) - dem strings, primarily

So no, not ocr-suited stuff yet. Clearly you've got ears for this, the sound design is pretty cool with good instrument choices and some nice layers. Now you gotta get your mixing and writing skills on par with that. Shouldn't be hard for you.

[Pumpkin King]

Hey thanks for the review, much appreciated!

Firstly, I knew it was very close to the source. I did the same thing when I did my version of Aquatic Ambience (and hey, even Flight of the Zinger... just did that one). I just wanted to see what people thought so I could get more ideas when I do this again.

I definitely agree that there is a lack of dynamics. Especially with the strings. Hell, I only used Garageband for this. And the sound that I used, which I liked, was only possible at a certain velocity (maybe over 110). If the velocity were to be any lower, then the sound would completely differ... and wouldn't sound nearly as epic. So I used quite a bit of automation, along with altering of attack and decay at certain spots. And I guess it is pretty loud, but I thought that gave it more of an epic feeling (which is what I always go for... something atmospheric, too). But I'm sure things could be toned down. So I will say that it is nice to get a different set of ears to hear more opinions; to get some more feedback. As far as the dynamics of everything else, yeah... not too much differentiation in terms of velocities and all. I tend to be way more dynamic when doing piano covers (makes sense obviously, but still).

And yeah, with the drums, it was simply a cool kit that I liked, along with other multiple percussive kits, and just some eq adjustments and delay effects. So I realize that this wasn't really humanized overall, but I guess that wasn't what I was going for, in a way. Again, it would be different if I were to do a piano cover, or were to perform in the song, but I was just trying to simply orchestrate the song using Garageband. There are many limitations fo sho.

Again, I really appreciate this. I would definitely like to learn some mixing techniques and use that to my advantage. I'd probably need to upgrade from Garageband though. I would like to use Logic one day. As far as writing skills, trust me, I have writing skills... haha. I write music all the time. I guess with vgm, sometimes I like to stay true to the source since I guess in my mind, I don't want to completely alter a certain tune that I already love.

[Follow James McCloud]

Logging in for the first time in years to say. Amazing. Very well done, thanks for this!

[Pumpkin King]

Logging in for the first time in years to say. Amazing. Very well done, thanks for this!

Thanks a lot man! I'm really glad you liked it.

[Rozovian]

As far as writing skills, trust me, I have writing skills... haha. I write music all the time. I guess with vgm, sometimes I like to stay true to the source since I guess in my mind, I don't want to completely alter a certain tune that I already love.

That's fine. Not every mix needs to (or even should) be on ocr. For ocr tho, you'd need an arrangement that differs and shows some personality.

Anyway, what I meant with writing, which I guess I should have made a little more clear, isn't just putting letters in order. Writing music is like using a pen to write (you know, like back when ppl used paper ). Not only do you have to know how to know the language - how to convey the idea, how to spell, how to form sentences and articles - you also need the fine motor control to make the writing intelligible. Writing in a DAW takes both general music skills, a writing skill I take it you have if you do piano skills; it also takes midi-writing skills, which are more about how to get the most out of your instruments. This includes velocity, timing, length, midi cc (like modulation, expression, sustain etc), and more.

There's also the matter of making sure your pen works well (sharpening the pencil/refilling ink/whatever). This is analogous to screwing with the instruments and effects, using automation where necessary to make the instrument sound good.

I used GB a lot before moving on to Logic. I'm not up to speed on everything the current version does (back then, it had the track instrument and effects in a window rather than a sidebar, and had limited automation), but I've played with the new version from time to time, and the writing tools are, imo, not good. Editing velocity and timing is clunky, so humanizing is a pain... unless I've missed some convenient shortcut or modifier key.

In other words, I meant writing, not writing.

(ps. remixing guide in my sig, contains both basics and various more advanced things, feel free to read it)

[Pumpkin King]

That's fine. Not every mix needs to (or even should) be on ocr. For ocr tho, you'd need an arrangement that differs and shows some personality.

Anyway, what I meant with writing, which I guess I should have made a little more clear, isn't just putting letters in order. Writing music is like using a pen to write (you know, like back when ppl used paper ). Not only do you have to know how to know the language - how to convey the idea, how to spell, how to form sentences and articles - you also need the fine motor control to make the writing intelligible. Writing in a DAW takes both general music skills, a writing skill I take it you have if you do piano skills; it also takes midi-writing skills, which are more about how to get the most out of your instruments. This includes velocity, timing, length, midi cc (like modulation, expression, sustain etc), and more.

There's also the matter of making sure your pen works well (sharpening the pencil/refilling ink/whatever). This is analogous to screwing with the instruments and effects, using automation where necessary to make the instrument sound good.

I used GB a lot before moving on to Logic. I'm not up to speed on everything the current version does (back then, it had the track instrument and effects in a window rather than a sidebar, and had limited automation), but I've played with the new version from time to time, and the writing tools are, imo, not good. Editing velocity and timing is clunky, so humanizing is a pain... unless I've missed some convenient shortcut or modifier key.

In other words, I meant writing, not writing.

(ps. remixing guide in my sig, contains both basics and various more advanced things, feel free to read it)

Yeah, I just wanted to share this song here anyways since I know there's a community here that loves vgm. And so I could get good feedback from guys like you to help me in the future.

But anyways, I gotcha. With the velocities, automation, etc., I didn't use them as much as I could have. Haha, honestly, I just didn't spend too much time on this song. Well... I did, but it was two days worth, spending a few hours arranging everything. I did do quite a bit though, in terms of midi writing. Just not enough obviously, but I'm still happy with this.

And I do know that editing velocities and timing can be pretty clunky on garageband, too. Things tend to get extremely slow and inconvenient, the longer or more complicated the song is. Compared to programs like pro tools and reason, it's not as good. I know that. I have an original song that I've been working on that is over 10 minutes in garageband, and highlighting midi notes and doing whatever to them can take forever. But I dunno... maybe all that has to do with my macbook. Oh well.

And I'll be reading your guide in a bit, for sure.