mikeastarb Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Hey all, I've finally gotten around to getting a mix started again. I've done one WIP already and got some feedback on it from a few friends and now I'm ready to get things out there to the community and see what comes of it. Specifically, I'm really new to working with EQ. I've done some research online and read some threads about EQ over on reddit.com/r/wearethemusicmakers and I've got this track to show for it. I'm not sure how it sounds to others though. I'm working on a cheap audio interface with Skullcandy headphones and I'm not sure how the sound is being colored by those things. I'm also really unsure what to do with other effects though (reverb/compression) so, I've left those things out to not mess up what I've done so far. To my amateur ears, it sounds fantastic (especially when compared to WIP.1) but, my ears don't really know what to listen for that reverb/compression could make even better. Anyway, if you feel like you can help me out with some feedback, please do. I would be really grateful if you did Thanks for reading and listening Bramble's Chillout Room (working title) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 How convenient, I'm not home AND I brought my skullcandy earphones, so I'll hear EXACTLY what you have. For reverb and compression, just experiment with them on your own with an empty project file and then bring that into this mix later. The first resonant filter sound is cool, but it sounds weird hard-panned left. Maybe panned left 75% would be better? Same with the following saw wave. Make sure you've sidechained the kick to the bass. Just don't overdo it; turn down the release on the sidechaining a bit and don't make the threshold too low or ratio too high. The low end is currently really muddy. The bass is cluttering the low end because the kick isn't sidechained yet. The kick is hard to hear because of that, and so are the little resonant filter sweeps. The portamento saw at 1:58 is a bit out of place. Maybe don't do overlapping notes so much. The soloing afterwards is somewhat disjointed from the mix; it's meandering quite a bit, so adjust the notes some more so that it sounds integrated with the backing. 3:24 is a bit jarring as it suddenly became bare as a builddown, but it wasn't foreshadowed. 3:36 - the bass is panned hard left, which is weird, like before. Try panning everything 75%, not 100%. IIRC, it'll sound correct on headphones and borderline correct on speakers since headphones are more impacted by panning. Since the timbres are so different on either side, it's unbalanced and awkward. There's some interesting sound design in this, so it's got potential! You most definitely need new headphones, though. Like $60-$120 range. I'd suggest Sony MDR-V6 or Grado SR-80i, either for $100, I think. Grados are arguably a bit better, though, after I tried and stayed with the Grado SR-60i. Not sure about the Sony MDR-V6, but it's comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeastarb Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Awesome! Thanks for such an in-depth review. Right now I'm working with side-chaining the bass to the kick. I have the two things panned left and right (the bass/pad/thing on the left and the bass/guitar/thing on the right so they wouldn't interfere with each other. I'm thinking I might just completely cut one of them to take some pressure off the low end. Any suggestions on that? Would the 75% pan still be enough to separate the two? How would you foreshadow that builddown? I feel like there needs to be a transition there but have no idea how to start that "this is going to drop off" feeling. Thanks again for the write up, and thanks for the headphone tips. I've been meaning to get a nice pair to work with so I can get a better idea of the flat sound rather than whatever Skullcandy tells me sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Personally, I'd recommend you avoid having any lead panned so far left or right. I don't think I've ever heard a song where the lead wasn't panned center. Right now, it's like you have some leads panned opposite to the backing. Don't pan the guitar and bass on opposite speakers though. Pan the bass center and double track the guitar(s). ...You had guitars? I didn't hear any. I heard sustained and plucked saw waves, vibrato sine wave bells, triangle waves (during the part with the odd pulsating tremolo thing in the right speaker, before the portamento saw wave), and some other plainly synthetic sounds. Double tracking is hard-pan left and right with two signals, but for the sake of making it wide yet not too wide, try 90%. Basically, you have one track panned left 90%, one panned right 90%, and both having complementary tones. 90% feels just right on headphones, and the 10% difference played on speakers is almost no difference. Then when you've done that, just high pass the guitar above about 200Hz, and low pass the bass above about 300Hz, then sidechain the kick to the bass, so that it'll push the bass down for every time it plays, until it's done playing, reducing some muddiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeastarb Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 You are right, its all synth sounds. I just don't know what the names of anything are :/ thanks for the advice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeastarb Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 https://soundcloud.com/mikeastarb/brambles-chillout-room-wip-3 Took some advice from a few sources and this is where the track is currently. This is really the best work I've ever done and, to my novice ears, it sounds fantastic but, I know there's still room for improvement. Any suggestions or advice about where to go from here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Well, it definitely sounds cleaner. The dryness is a huge problem but you know about it. I think the kick should be layered. It's a moderately good acoustic kick, but it needs a bit more strength than that. Try to go for a sample that has that thump. The solo at 2:12 is better, but the pad playing alongside is pretty narrow in terms of sound design quality. It would probably work best panned center, though. It currently sounds somewhat panned right, but I'm not entirely sure. Not really digging the constant cymbals starting at 2:48, as they're playing a bit too often. For example, at 3:14, it's pretty much playing on every significant beat, rather than as bridges between multiples of 4 bars. I think this could work out better once the reverb and delay is added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argle Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 this sounds weird but I almost expected Geddy Lee to come in during the intro to your song. I think the song should have more atmospherics across the board, feels a little empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrypnyk Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The drums don't work, both in terms of samples and arrangement. Sample wise they're too acoustic sounding for a song trying to be electronic, and arrangement wise they're too erratic they sound incredibly sequenced and choppy. They also don't drive the song, they really sound like they're in the way of it and I would suggest muting them just so 'I' could focus more on the rest of the instrumentation and production. As for the rest of the instrumentation, most of the synths sound rather bland and uninteresting. That one pad/fx synth that starts at the beginning and sounds like a crash transition in a warbly effect for example serves little to no purpose other than to take up space through-out the track, and take up space it does. Also at several points in the track you have multiple instruments fighting for the center of attention, leaving it sounding muddy and disoriented. I do like some of your re-arrangements, and you do have moments of nice ideas with them. Personally would have ended this at around the 3:50 mark, the last minute adds noooooothing. It's interesting cause v3 is a lot easier to listen to compared to v2 (the panning hurts), yet v2 sounds a lot sharper... had more of a bass sound too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeastarb Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions everyone there still is a lot of work to be done here. Looks like taking out the bass synth wasn's such a good idea after all. I've had a lot of comments on the blandness of the synths so, I'm looking into making them a bit more interesting. This track is probably going to go back and get some new arrangement to keep the sound full but not muddy, then get some new Eq attention (now that I have a better idea of what I'm doing). I feel like I should know this but, what do you mean by atmospherics? Are you thinking that I should be putting in another pad or two or should I be looking into reverb? Also, any suggestions for how to keep things playing but, shift them to the background so they're not trying to compete? Is it as simple as just lowering the faders on it or should I be bringing in more reverb to send them further towards the back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeastarb Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 So, I went back to the drawing boards with this one. In short, I'm still learning how to use my DAW and once I decided on the changes that needed to be made, I had realized that I had things set up in the project horribly and that it would be easier to learn from the past and start fresh. Anyway, there's a really detailed write up in the description of the song for what sounds I'm using and a little more about the composition and arrangement. I have taken into account a lot of advice I've gotten when restarting this project. Keeping the low end clear (or clearer to my ears) while keeping the sound pretty full. I've also got some reverb going on with it and have used it to generate a building/climaxing feel. Or that's how it comes across to me. Again, to my amateur ears, this sounds fantastic. I've really come to like this version more than my last but, I know that I'm still learning and still have plenty of places to improve. If there's something that really sticks out to you as being bad, please let me know. I would also really appreciate if you could suggest specifics on fixing whatever it is because, frankly, I have minimal knowledge about what I'm doing (a lot of throwing music at the wall and seeing what sticks). I'm sure I've left something out of this that I meant to throw in... Oh right! No ending to the track currently. I'm still playing around with what I want to do. If anyone has any loose suggestions for how to wind a track down, any advice is helpful. Thanks for listening, commenting, reading, critiquing, etc. Brambles [WIP.4] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The percussion in general is a bit quiet, but especially your kick. It's buried. Sidechain the kick to the bass if you haven't already. There's a guide on youtube about sidechaining by zirconst if you need it. The 8-bit (square?) lead (the kind you typically hear doing really old school synth arps) and the square/saw hybrid bass in the beginning are really that generic. There's nothing interesting that can be appreciated about those particular sounds, as nothing was really done to modify them more dramatically from the basic 8-bit quality synth sounds. Not to mention a lot of them are really similar in timbre. It's not nearly as bad as a whole bunch of detuned saw waves trying to harmonize though. After I finished listening, I heard the first song in Bits n' Bobz by Case Portman. You might find that inspiring for your style on this particular song. Like what Skrypnyk said, it sounds like you're still using an acoustic drum kit with electronic instruments. Try vinyl or Roland TR samples, or something to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeastarb Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'll start looking for some Roland samples and see what I can find for free online. If you, or anyone, can point me in the direction of a good set of samples, or a nice soundfont for some electronic drums, that would really be appreciated. I'll also try adding some more effects onto those chippy sounds to make them sound a bit different from each other. I'm worried that adding in effects is going to destroy my low end but, it's all a trial and error process I suppose. Thanks for the reply, and for all the advice you've given Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I'll start looking for some Roland samples and see what I can find for free online. If you, or anyone, can point me in the direction of a good set of samples, or a nice soundfont for some electronic drums, that would really be appreciated.I'll also try adding some more effects onto those chippy sounds to make them sound a bit different from each other. I'm worried that adding in effects is going to destroy my low end but, it's all a trial and error process I suppose. Thanks for the reply, and for all the advice you've given goldbaby.co.nz has some great drum samples, and definitely some for electronic music. They all cost around $30, but you can get free sample packs with about 1/8 the size, which is still a good amount. When you say "effects to modify their sound", it makes me think of external plugins for effects. By "change the sound", I mean go into the VST UI and edit the sound from in there, via synthesis techniques. Turning knobs and such. Right now I'm working with side-chaining the bass to the kick. I sure hope that's a typo, because you should be sidechaining the kick to the bass. Otherwise it's backwards at this particular moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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