Jens Wulvik Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 No orchestra I know is 1GB only. EDIROL HQ Orchestra is around 200 WTF?! You made it sound like 200Gb but it's 200Mb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Hah, I've heard orchestral music through GM midi that sounds better than orchestral music done with EWQLSO Platinum. It's all in how you write it. I got EWQLSO Silver, and I fucking SUCK at using it. No samples can replace good ol' fashioned MUSIC... Orchestral music (to me at least) is a very delicate genre that is completely unforgiving of a lackluster composition. Learn theory and learn it well before tackling such a beast. As for me, brainless metal will keep my fanbase happy and my lack of musical ability hidden! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenzark Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Though it might be obvious, or maybe not, classical music education will definatily help on this point. Making good classical music is all about knowing the rules; and how to break them to create good music. That's how it seems to me, abit anyways. Not trying to say that you can't create anything good without knowing music theory, because I definatily believe you can - but it'll be a help to know the basics, such as cadances, I - IV - V, and so on. Even if you have no musical powers inside of you, you can create okay sounding music just knowing those basic rules. Good luck anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Well, orchestral music can't be just "okay". Most people these days use that genre to be dramatic and larger than life. You can't be just okay if you're trying to move people through music. I mean cmon, next you'll tell me that it's possible to be a bad composer and become the most popular figure in the videogame music scene! HAH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenzark Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Well, orchestral music can't be just "okay". Most people these days use that genre to be dramatic and larger than life. You can't be just okay if you're trying to move people through music. I mean cmon, next you'll tell me that it's possible to be a bad composer and become the most popular figure in the videogame music scene! HAH! Well, take what I said with a bit grain of salt, then. You don't have to take it literally. I believe that people that are okay CAN make good classical music, but most likely not. Classical music can be the most powerful of all the genres of music, and is very subtle. Theory controls the music oh-so-much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souliarc Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Annnnnnd for those unaware of the Free Orchestration Course: Principles of Orchestration, there it is, if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted August 12, 2006 Share Posted August 12, 2006 Well, orchestral music can't be just "okay". Most people these days use that genre to be dramatic and larger than life. You can't be just okay if you're trying to move people through music. I mean cmon, next you'll tell me that it's possible to be a bad composer and become the most popular figure in the videogame music scene! HAH! Well, take what I said with a bit grain of salt, then. You don't have to take it literally. I believe that people that are okay CAN make good classical music, but most likely not. Classical music can be the most powerful of all the genres of music, and is very subtle. Theory controls the music oh-so-much. You so obviously missed that joke... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenzark Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Well, orchestral music can't be just "okay". Most people these days use that genre to be dramatic and larger than life. You can't be just okay if you're trying to move people through music. I mean cmon, next you'll tell me that it's possible to be a bad composer and become the most popular figure in the videogame music scene! HAH! Well, take what I said with a bit grain of salt, then. You don't have to take it literally. I believe that people that are okay CAN make good classical music, but most likely not. Classical music can be the most powerful of all the genres of music, and is very subtle. Theory controls the music oh-so-much. You so obviously missed that joke... Hahaha, I guess I did Sorry about my lack of humor. I've been taught for two years of a teacher who's methods and thinking resembled very much what you just said, so I guess you'll have to excuse me abit there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zylance Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I've been using EWQLSO Silver for a while, and really the only thing I can write with those strings is lil poppy / disco strings. But really, the sample set is realllllly nice, well worth the money. I just can't do the orchestral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Before you start thinking about samples, first start thinking about what you want to do. You want to write for orchestra. This requires an entirely different mindset than writing a trance or rock song. In comparison, thsoe genres (trance especially) are very simple in structure (for the most part, but there are exceptions), while orchestral music is much more complex. Writing orchestral music is not easy. It can also be downright frustrating at times. First off, here is what is required (basic list): 1. A good ear. The musical ear is more important in orchestral music than in other genres. 2. Knowledge of intermediate music theory. You need to know about complex rhythms and chords. Being able to read music is a definate plus. 3. Basic knowlege of orchestral instruments. In a rock band you have three basic instruments. Guitar, Bass, and drums. The orchestra is a lot different. There are about 15 standard instruments in the orchestra, most split into diferent parts (Ex. 1st and 2nd violin). You not only have to know what these instruments are, you have to know their ranges, For instance a trumpet playng a Bb1 (middle C = C3) will make it sound unrealistic, as standard trumpets can't go that low. Here is a basic instrument list: Violin Viola Cello Contrabass Flute Oboe Clarinet Bassoon Bass Clarinet F Horn Trumpet Trombone Tuba Timpani Percussion You are not tied to these. Others can be added, such as piccolos, bass trombones, and english horns. Also, a chior may be present. The ranges will be listed in a link I am about to give you. 4. Know how to orchestrate (how to use the instruments). This is the hardest part. You can study this stuff in college for years. But, there are resources out there that are much cheaper, even free! Garritan is publishing for free Rimsky-Korsokav's "Principles of Orchestration" with examples. Start here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=77 Also, one element often overlooked in orchestration these days is the timpani. The timpani are VERY limited in what they can do during a piece. Many game composers do not know this. A good timapni resource (with a Super Mario Bros. example! ): http://members.cox.net/datimp/mus1.html (this page assumes you can read music) 5. An instrument, preferably A piano or keyboard. While not 100% required, This is really helpful. It allows you to play with ideas before pluggin them into your sequencer. 6. Samples. Samples are last on the list. I would start with soundfont first and then move up once you have honed your skills a bit. That way you do not spend a lot of meny up front. Though if you wish to buy a library off the bat, then I reccomend either GPO or EWQLSO Silver. GPO is a bit more featured than silver, but it also has a special way of working that you have to learn in order for it to sound as good as it can. You MUST start listening to orchestral music. Buy score soundtracks to movies. Buy classical albums. Listen to them. Also, if you know how to read music, study scores are great. I have one for Beethoven's 8th and 9th symphonies, as well as one for Holst's "The Planets." Study score are great because they allow you to see the music visually. Following along in the score while listening is a great way to help you learn orchestration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Wulvik Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Is it possible to store the samples on CDs or DVDs instead of occupating space on the harddrive with EWQLSO Silver edition?? Is this possible with garritan pers. orch.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Uhh... I think in theory it's possible, but I REALLY doubt DFD streaming would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Wulvik Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Isn't garritan pers.o. using kontakt samples?? It should be possible to load kontakt samples from CD, right?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 No, GPO uses GPO samples. It uses the Kontakt player, however, which has DFD capabilities. Now, DFD depends on having at least a decently fast rate of data reading, which I don't think you're going to get from a CD drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgfoo Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 DFD wise with GPO, you'd probably be fine without it if you have a decent amount of RAM. Actually, when the GPO Kontakt player first was updated so that it had DFD, Garritan himself recommened turning it off because GPO wasn't optimized for it and it worked better loading the samples into RAM. I'm not sure if they changed that or not in one of it's newer updates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jens Wulvik Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 If I can load samples into RAM, I'm fine. Got 1024mb ram, often load samples into ram with some VSTs. RAM is not the problem, but hardrive space is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 I just realized how bad I am at timpani writing, but how lazy I am to learn it. I can't wait to buy GPO. For some reason what I've heard from comparitive demos of GPO and EWQL samples, GPO would more fit my style of writing. I'm glad DZComposer stuck in the disclaimer that not all trance or rock songs are that simple in structure. I've been playing trumpet in band for approximately 8 years now and that is the majority of "theory" experience that I've acquired. It's good to listen to orchestral music, but don't listen to classical composers all day and try to mimic them. Listen to all kinds of orchestral music until you become familiar with some often-used textures and tricks, and use that to create your OWN style. Also, orchestral music may be the most complex "genre" to write, so it tends to get ripped apart the most. There are so many different aspects that need to have attention paid to. However, I've noticed that orchestral instrumental performance and orchestral composing is the biggest attraction for elitests, know-it-alls, connoisseurs, whatever you want to call them. Some like to have you copy classical theory by the dot and will not be satisfied until you do so. Don't let these people destroy your goal. However, you must also focus on taking advice and not getting angry and dismissive. Keep in mind that you would be "new". Never get cocky either, as it halts improvement. Instead, be confident. Too many people take music in as a competition, especially orchestral, from what I've seen in real life. "I know more than YOU do! Therefore you know nothing." Remember it's an artform about you, not about being better than the other guy. Anyway take this with a grain of salt. I really don't have nearly enough experience or talent as an orchestrator to be preaching those things, but they're the fundamental practice of anything that requires improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souliarc Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Some like to have you copy classical theory by the dot and will not be satisfied until you do so. Don't let these people destroy your goal. However, you must also focus on taking advice and not getting angry and dismissive. Very good guidance. I hope to be attending music school in the future and i've been quite worried about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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