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Truemas

Questions about Musictheory

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See TLDR for the short version + the midi i am talking about.

I just checked the music composition&production forum and i was suprised that there are so few Threads but then i read the sticky of zircon that there has been some stuff sorted out.

I hope that it is ok to ask such kind of questions here, since i want to seriously start remixing and to apply my theory into practical experience.

For my background:

- I play drums for 11 years (recently much e-drum

- I used wikipedia and "the principals of orchestration" course of garritan online (i read it whole!) to get theoretical knowledge

- I got a midi keyboard which i am playing to develope melodys and chord progressions.

Right now, for this sake of learning progress i started a Zelda remix of Song of Storms. I am heavely influenced by the remix of big giant circles feat. Jeff Ball (the string arrangements in particular!) and wanted to try to approach that remix by listening to the original and that remix.

In the beginning all went fine. Since the song seems to have its emphasis around the "D" i approached it with a Dorian Church Mode but when i came to the second part of the melody , not one of my chords that i tried seemed to fit. I wanted to do it without a midifile but i thought for checking out whats going on it would be of a great help but i got even more confused when i looked at it in cubase.

The notes in the 7th and 8th bar of the "Tango accordion" and "accordion" make no sense to me. I thought about different other scales ( like the harmonic minor scale even though the melody doesnt sound arabic)and came to the conclusion that it must be some song writing technique that i am not familiar with other doesnt comes to mind ( i should have known when i picked a Zelda Song. Oh, what fool i have been!). Only the step from bar 8 to 9 makes sense for me because it is a 5th leading to the prime. When i hear the midi it sounds "right" but it still could be the wrong approach.

Thats the point where i come to my TLDR:

TLDR: Can someone figure out what happens in the 7th and 8th bar of the 2 accordion instruments in this midi regarding the harmony. For which scale (or church mod) is this song written?

Midi: http://www.justmidis.com/00-MIDI/2/000000004738/Song%20of%20Storms

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Honestly, to me that melody just looks like D minor (aeolian). I think even just a straight up D minor chord should work. I'll check again and then edit this post....

EDIT: Yeah, the ocarina melody to me definitely is just regular ol' D minor. The chords that are beneath would appear to come from the Dorian mode.

You could honestly harmonize this many different ways, just like any melody. Just look at the notes of melody and what chords from that scale would fit. For example, D, E and F work over a D minor triad. In this case you could say the the E note is a non-chord tone. A passing tone up to another chord tone.

EDIT 2: In fact, the whole first three bars of the ocarina can be harmonized with a Dm7 chord.

Edited by AngelCityOutlaw

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To further elaborate, here is my quick re-harmonization of it

http://www.mediafire.com/?c9bp1ttrl8r5nv8

Here is a break down of the harmony:

Dm7, then Dsus4, then Dsus2. After that, the piano plays that faster run of the ocarina melody, but harmonized in thirds. Then, it hits an A minor chord. A unison of a "C" note follows and then ends on a D minor chord. This is just one of literally limitless ways to harmonize it.

Hopefully something I've said helps with the remix and harmonizing the melody.

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This site has a nice sheet of Song of Storms:

http://cruiseelroy.net/2008/04/ocarina-music-1/

The harmony is pretty simple though, the first four chords (Dm, Em, F and Em) can be thought of being in D Dorian. Then, you have Bb, F, Bb, A for the next four chords, and that is D minor. Essentially, the song uses Bb for a few chords instead of B, it isn't a huge alteration.

Edited by jnWake

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Thank you guys very much for your answers ( in advance because i just opened my browser and i am now going to analyse what you wrote)!

The only thing that didnt made sense for me was the Bb at the 7th and 8th bar, but lets see if i am getting it now with the approaches of you two. I will report later on what i have learned.

Edit: It is almost embarrassing... D minor makes total sense. I think i must have been totally mentally tired after spending 8 hours of working with cubase. I am also trying to speed up my workflow and i ran into problems with pitchbending and note expression. (Havent found a solution yet)

I will try the d minor approach now and the two examples you guys gave me. Up to now i have been a little hesitant regarding sus-chords because i have thought of them as "difficult" but i think that my perceptions are wrong and i should learn to take them into consideration more often to archieve the result of that whats in my head.

Edit 2: @jnWake: I just explored your suggested sheet (the Kakariko Windmill) and studied the chords. The author (if that sheet is written by him and not by Koji Kondo) also took the dorian approach where the Bbmaj7 chord would not belong to. Approaching this in Dm as also AngelCityOutlaw mentioned makes more sense to me but leaves me with an A chord which has an C# that doesnt belong to the Dminor scale... I dont get this progression of chords and i really would like to understand it so i can use it later for composing.

Edited by Truemas

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Thank you guys very much for your answers ( in advance because i just opened my browser and i am now going to analyse what you wrote)!

The only thing that didnt made sense for me was the Bb at the 7th and 8th bar, but lets see if i am getting it now with the approaches of you two. I will report later on what i have learned.

Edit: It is almost embarrassing... D minor makes total sense. I think i must have been totally mentally tired after spending 8 hours of working with cubase. I am also trying to speed up my workflow and i ran into problems with pitchbending and note expression. (Havent found a solution yet)

I will try the d minor approach now and the two examples you guys gave me. Up to now i have been a little hesitant regarding sus-chords because i have thought of them as "difficult" but i think that my perceptions are wrong and i should learn to take them into consideration more often to archieve the result of that whats in my head.

Edit 2: @jnWake: I just explored your suggested sheet (the Kakariko Windmill) and studied the chords. The author (if that sheet is written by him and not by Koji Kondo) also took the dorian approach where the Bbmaj7 chord would not belong to. Approaching this in Dm as also AngelCityOutlaw mentioned makes more sense to me but leaves me with an A chord which has an C# that doesnt belong to the Dminor scale... I dont get this progression of chords and i really would like to understand it so i can use it later for composing.

Remember that nothing is set in stone with tones and modes. Changing the V chord from minor to major is a classic alteration in classical and modern music and is done because A7 is a dominant chord while Am7 isn't.

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Yeah, you are right. I just got that revelation ( actually i remembered it ) that you can use a major-chord as dominant-chord to increase the pull to the prime.

It is true that the rules of music theory are very loose but the reason why they are there ( so i was told ) is that it fits the taste of our ears, and for the start i want to understand theese basics.

And thanks again for your reply i should get something done now!

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