Untitled Metal Remix, Shinobi 3 - Whirlwind

[dmkeshim]

Hey OCRemix, first post ever. Me and two other guys are working on a variety of music, both remixes and originals, but this first one we want to submit for comments and suggestions. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

https://soundcloud.com/stochasticband/whirlwind

Thanks!

[timaeus222]

The balance is completely off; the bass is way too loud, and as a result, the guitars are buried, as well as the drums unfortunately. The only drums I can hear are hi hats, cymbals (barely for some reason), kicks (very barely), and toms (barely but a tiny bit better than the kicks).

For now, turn off the bass and make sure other things are balanced, and then put the bass back, mute it, then turn up the volume slowly until it's enough.

It's good that the shakuhachi is realistic, but it's hard to hear.

Edited June 5, 2013 by timaeus222

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Yeah, the balance of the instruments is pretty wonky like Timaeus said.

Also, around 1:52, that vibrato is bad. I'd re-record that for sure.

[strutting_crow]

Yeah, the balance of the instruments is pretty wonky like Timaeus said.

Also, around 1:52, that vibrato is bad. I'd re-record that for sure.

Thanks a lot, I'm down to re-record the vibrato.

[strutting_crow]

the bass is way too loud

Yeah, we really wanted that audible bass...

[Byproduct]

Yeah, we really wanted that audible bass...

Even if you want it loud, I'm not sure if the highest frequencies of the bass are necessary in that amount. To me it sounds only like distorted noise/static.

Of course there's no one right way to make a mix, but if I were you, I'd cut off the highest end of the bass to leave room for those other instruments. I think it'd help the mix a lot.

[RisingTide]

The content and substance of the music is really good, I like it. The arrangement is strong and varied. The mix needs some refinement to make every part work together, though. If you're looking for some direction, here are some humble suggestions:

- Rhythm guitar should be double tracked to make it sound more "3D" and distinct

- Compress the drums to bring them out a little bit more

- The orchestratal synth sounds really good in the opening, I would not change that. However, the slow attack and long reverb makes it a little muddy when the song starts to "move" after that. I would speed up the attack and reduce the length of the reverb to open some space for other instruments.

- I would take some of the high EQs down a bit on the bass, although it doesn't seem that loud to me.

[dmkeshim]

Thanks for the feedback! It's really helpful to get opinions from people who actually know what they are talking about.

@RisingTide, when you say double track the guitar, do you mean recording the same part twice, or copying part in two tracks and panning each to L/R extremes? I actually chose the latter method on this first go around. I've recorded with bands that have used the former technique, but I feel that can mud up the sound... ideas?

@Byproduct, so the sound I am going for is a gritty slightly distorted upper range on the bass and a deep rich low end. I think I've achieved it acoustically, but reproducing digitally has been a challenge. More or less, I am trying to replicate a sound similar to that of Nightwish. A good sample can be found here:

. And actually, any tips to improve on that would be appreciated.

I've re-balanced the drums, it's sounding a bit better, I will try adding some compressors to make them stand out a bit more. Thanks all!

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Thanks for the feedback! It's really helpful to get opinions from people who actually know what they are talking about.

@RisingTide, when you say double track the guitar, do you mean recording the same part twice, or copying part in two tracks and panning each to L/R extremes? I actually chose the latter method on this first go around. I've recorded with bands that have used the former technique, but I feel that can mud up the sound... ideas?

You must record two separate takes. If you just copy/paste it, you will get mono; which is the opposite of what you want.

and it shouldn't mud up the sound. If it does, it probably needs EQ in low end.

Edited June 8, 2013 by AngelCityOutlaw

[Byproduct]

@Byproduct, so the sound I am going for is a gritty slightly distorted upper range on the bass and a deep rich low end. I think I've achieved it acoustically, but reproducing digitally has been a challenge. More or less, I am trying to replicate a sound similar to that of Nightwish. A good sample can be found here:

. And actually, any tips to improve on that would be appreciated.

One option, which I like, is to have the bass fully on (only) when there's a quieter part going on in the song. It then makes a nice detail to listen to. And when the song picks up again, with full drums and horns and guitars and whatnot, then you can cut off the highest frequencies of the bass to make room for the other instruments.

Of course you can have the bass fully on all the time as well - I think it is in that Nemo song - but it takes a lot of time and skill with EQ and stereo image if you want to mix it properly in there.

If you have several instruments competing both for the same frequencies and the same place in the stereo image, then the track will easily sound muddy/unclear and some instruments become quiet and distant (as opposed to properly 'in your face'). I think that's what's going on with this track, but unfortunately I don't have a good enough ear to tell which instruments specifically.

You must record two separate takes. If you just copy/paste it, you will get mono; which is the opposite of what you want.

and it shouldn't mud up the sound. If it does, it probably needs EQ in low end.

You can also use a chorus effect (I particularly like waves doubler, but there are plenty of free ones around as well), and if needed, also a stereo separator for that chorused sound. That way you can get a real wide sound from just one take. Two takes may sound better though (haven't really compared so I don't know).

Anyway, I agree that the guitars sound mono-ish and may benefit a lot from some widening.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Byproduct

[timaeus222]

You can also use a chorus effect (I particularly like waves doubler, but there are plenty of free ones around as well), and if needed, also a stereo separator for that chorused sound. That way you can get a real wide sound from just one take. Two takes may sound better though (haven't really compared so I don't know).

I would suggest doing two actual takes, and not using chorus. Two unique takes makes it much more realistic than one take with chorus.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

Yeah, in metal you want that "wall of sound" with guitars. The only real way to achieve that is genuine double-trackin'.

[dmkeshim]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, we have updated the mix, recorded some additional content, and reposted the song. There may be a couple misplaced notes in this draft, but I am planning on ironing those out before finally submitting.

Does this sound more balanced? Compression was added to many of the percussive sounds, added some EQ to all of the channels, doubled up (sometimes quadrupled) the guitar parts for a richer and thicker sound, and attempted to balance the rest of the mix. Thanks!

https://soundcloud.com/stochasticband/whirlwind

[Garpocalypse]

Yeah, in metal you want that "wall of sound" with guitars. The only real way to achieve that is genuine double-trackin'.

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/adt_by_vacuumsound

If you want to give this plugin a shot for your rhythm guitars it will help clean them up and make them wider. I used it on my Supremacy remix along with some Density mk III for a little M/S processing and there was a huge jump in the quality of the rhythm guitars. It takes one take and artificially double tracks it for you.