Teminus Est (Epic Orchestral)

[XPRTNovice]

So, this is my first attempt at an orchestral original. Was going for an epic cinematic thing (I think). This is a severe case of rectal extraction. Looking for any and all feedback...I have my own opinions on sections, of course, but I'll withhold them for now.

https://soundcloud.com/xprtnovice/terminus-est-wip2

:banghead:

Edited June 29, 2013 by XPRTNovice

[Phonetic Hero]

I love this sort of thing dude. The first :20 feels really.. weirdly empty. And I get that that's sort of what you were going for, but this kind of empty is just disorienting. It could be the EQ on stuff, but I also have shit headphones at the moment. The percussion is in dire need of variation too, and the whole first half goes without any strictly high end percussion, which is very atypical. The piece would benefit greatly from some cymbals, gongs, hats, etc.

The whole thing feels a little spastic and directionless at times too; even with cinematic music, there's some repetition of ideas or variations on them, especially if it's an isolated track (a film soundtrack as a whole has some wiggle room because it's got more potential for motif development). It sounds like you're trying to use that main percussion groove to tie the piece together, but instead it causes it to stagnate a bit rather than propelling it forward

I really dig the percussive variation at 2:19, mostly because it reminds me of the Pitfall: the Mayan Adventure OST (my personal favorite game soundtrack). That section works great as a bit of rising action

There's some nice complexity and texturing throughout the progressions, but don't be afraid to bring out a more prominent melody as well. Cinematic music gets a bad wrap for being non-melodic these days, and it doesn't have to (and in my opinion, shouldn't) always be like that.

Just my two bits, hope it's helpful in some way

[timaeus222]

The rhythm gets bit lost in the beginning. It took me a few rewinds to figure out the time signature was 6/8 with a 5/8 at the fourth iteration. I don't want to have to tap my finger and count the beat like that just to get a groove going.

Intro has just high and low brass and cinematic percussion (djembes?). Low end is muddy for the tubas and french horns, and I can't hear the individual notes. If your samples aren't doing it for you, write simpler notes for those low brass instruments.

1:08-1:56 gets really cluttered. French horn notes are bleeding into each other, and I can't distinguish the trumpet notes from the trombone notes (are you even using trumpets? Yeah, I actually had to ask). Basically, too many moving parts at the same time. It's like babysitting 3 or 4 hyper kids all with differing personalities.

1:56 sounds separate from what came before, so you'll be needing a transition there. 2:27 sounds a bit blocky to me. The straight eighth notes in the trombones and trumpets (and french horn?) disrupt the pacing a bit.

2:53-3:39 has the same problem as 1:08.

Sounds to me like you're trying to use brass for everything, when you can totally use strings for some parts if you have them.

This could be the inspiration you need.

http://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/dinosaur-dna

[XPRTNovice]

Sounds to me like you're trying to use brass for everything, when you can totally use strings for some parts if you have them.

Sounds to me like I have no idea what the hell I am doing! As usual I am stumbling in the dark. Sometimes I wish I went to music school instead of all this saving-the-world bullshit...

Thanks for the feedback you guys. I wish I understood how to fix half of it...

[Chimpazilla]

Hey Joe! I have to agree with PH and T here... there are some nice sounds used, and man this is interesting, with a neato haunting/troubling vibe... but it does feel a bit rambling and directionless. I'm having trouble grabbing onto a theme here, which leaves it somewhat unmemorable. Some repeated phrases would help a lot. The percussion is very static, much more variation work is needed (ugh, I know...). And some more instrumentation is needed for sure, what about some mallets somewhere? Or some harp passages? Definitely strings could be used more than they are. Nice start, but hhhmmm... :-/

[timaeus222]

I wish I understood how to fix half of it...

Hey, no worries. I'm pretty new to the orchestral scene too. I can infuse orchestral instruments into my electronic music, but writing an entire orchestral piece is pretty tough. Mainly because of the many parts you have to write at once every step of the way; if only sampler engines could intelligently detect how many voices you have and distribute them to the right instruments based on pitch, right?

[Chimpazilla]

writing an entire orchestral piece is pretty tough. Mainly because of the many parts you have to write at once every step of the way; if only sampler engines could intelligently detect how many voices you have and distribute them to the right instruments based on pitch, right?

I have to agree... writing orchestral-only arrangements using midi instruments seems to be a skill all unto itself... and a daunting one at that! Takes soooo much practice and knowledge and just plain effort to get it right. I much prefer hybrids myself.

There are some who are superduper good at this though, like this guy!

[mickomoo]

I love the main expression. the first like 40 seconds for me are damn near awesome

0:15-16: odd drumming error idk if it's the velocities or timing

Some of the transitions are oddly blank, idk how to explain it, like around 0:50 (but I love how it picks up at 1:08. Also hated the "empty" transition to the low string at 1:56. I think it's that I'm not feeling eased into it.

Also I don't know what to say about the cluttering the others mention (I have absolutely the same problem in my work) but if you must have several distinct voices in the same section, how I've gotten around that is panning within the instance of my vst then paning the actual tracks to give the overall play a wide spacious feeling. It's something that doesn't always work but when it does it's great.

I feel the transition at 2:10 deviates from the motif and groove you had going and when you bring it back at 2:52 it just doesn't feel natural, it felt like everything between then felt like filler. I don't know if I'm projecting my own compositional woes onto you, but this is why my "best music" is either unfinished or shorter than 2 minutes. The longer it is, the more likely I am to add stuff that potentially deviates from my main rhythm or melody. Especially if the song's core is a key rhythm or phrase (as seems to be the case with yours)

Anyway I feel you pain. I never studied music so our process might be similar. That said, don't be too hard on yourself. I've been composing midi for about 3 years and the greatest fun was just dicking around composing things resembling music. But very surely (and slowly) you will improve if you take the time to listen more to others, do a bit of theory here and there, etc. Imo the song as it is now is fairly coherent and "passable" I've made and heard worse stuff so don't be hard on yourself, just know you can only go up from here (which isn't a bad place)

P.S. Can this fit scenes from Shadow of Legends?

Edited June 30, 2013 by mickomoo

[timaeus222]

I have to agree... writing orchestral-only arrangements using midi instruments seems to be a skill all unto itself... and a daunting one at that! Takes soooo much practice and knowledge and just plain effort to get it right. I much prefer hybrids myself.

There are some who are superduper good at this though, like this guy!

I'm actually emphasizing not the ability to write it all, but the ability to think of it all and then writing enough of it in before you forget it!

Two mind-blowing orchestral pieces:

- I actually managed to find time to recreate ~30 seconds of this one pretty decently; of course, I didn't have the same libraries, but I heard enough to rewrite it note-for-note. It was this song that let me realize the difference in quality between EWQL and LASS. What a difference $1000 makes...

https://soundcloud.com/stephen-anderson/i-am-the-sentinel-credits - This guy is so pro... His bass mixing is spot on, his brass is perfectly in your face, AND he actually replied to some of my soundcloud comments.

Edited June 30, 2013 by timaeus222