iLok???

[HoboKa]

Seriously...I wanted to buy E/W Symphonic Silver Complete

Edited

Everything's going fine 'till I throw it into the cart and see a message saying that this product requires an iLok 1 or iLok2; so I look it up and see that its a USB dongle that some people have called it Satan in a flashdrive. Seriously, I understand the need to protect intellectual property, but this is going too far. I don't want a device that puts foreign software into my PC just to authenticate a licence that may or may not REMAIN authenticated after buying it. What gives!!??

Is there any alternatives that don't require iLok - top of my head is Vienna, but even then I'm unsure

[Meteo Xavier]

I don't want a device that puts foreign software into my PC just to authenticate a licence that may or may not REMAIN authenticated after buying it.

If you don't want foreign software on your PC, why are you buying music programs? What is this idea that a license won't remain authenticated? I don't understand.

I've had an iLok version for years, and I would call any trouble associated with it minimal. The biggest reason it would be an issue is if your PC had a small number of USB ports to put it in. Mine rests in one in the back and I've had no trouble with it at all since then. The main reason people bitch about it is because they don't have anything larger to bitch about at the time they're bitching. I don't know all the ins and outs of iLok use, nor do I have anything else that would require an iLok, but with my history of music software problems, if I can get it to work without much problem, than it's really not that big of a deal in practice.

As far as an alternative, you didn't mention a price range, but if you're talking Vienna, the sky must be the limit. Check out Da Capo. http://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/dacapo/

Edited December 1, 2013 by Meteo Xavier

[Argle]

Vienna requires elicenser which is slightly better than iLok. Still, you're paying extra to inconvenience yourself. You could give the Kirk Hunter orchestra a look if you want non dongle Kontakt samples. Also ProjectSam? Not sure if they use a dongle.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Argle

[Meteo Xavier]

Da Capo is currently 40% off too. Like $165.

Yes, I'm fighting temptation...

[HoboKa]

If you don't want foreign software on your PC, why are you buying music programs? What is this idea that a license won't remain authenticated? I don't understand.

I've had an iLok version for years, and I would call any trouble associated with it minimal. The biggest reason it would be an issue is if your PC had a small number of USB ports to put it in. Mine rests in one in the back and I've had no trouble with it at all since then. The main reason people bitch about it is because they don't have anything larger to bitch about at the time they're bitching. I don't know all the ins and outs of iLok use, nor do I have anything else that would require an iLok, but with my history of music software problems, if I can get it to work without much problem, than it's really not that big of a deal in practice.

As far as an alternative, you didn't mention a price range, but if you're talking Vienna, the sky must be the limit. Check out Da Capo. http://www.sonokinetic.net/products/classical/dacapo/

Woah man, relax.

I just don't like the thought of dropping another $49.00 for something I don't trust; if you won't take any of my word with a grain of salt, well then read this stuff - I'm sure there's a few more threads elsewhere in the interwebs with people bitching about something "small" like this. It could be that most people don't have an issue with this 'product', but I don't feel well enough informed or comfortable enough to drop another $50 on this mystery dongle money-grab - so I needed somewhere to vent my frustration - it's not like I took it out on you personally.

Anyways, the alternative you mention 'Da Capo' does look pretty cool and yeah I checked out the shop cart section - no iLok required, so this looks like a better option for me. Thank you, on that regard.

EDIT

Vienna requires elicenser which is slightly better than iLok. Still, you're paying extra to inconvenience yourself. You could give the Kirk Hunter orchestra a look if you want non dongle Kontakt samples. Also ProjectSam? Not sure if they use a dongle.

Aight, I'll check 'em out, thanks Argle. Didn't know about that elicenser with Vienna, so that'll prob be another no-go for me.

Edited December 1, 2013 by HoboKa

[dannthr]

Seriously...I wanted to buy E/W Symphonic Silver Complete

Edited

Everything's going fine 'till I throw it into the cart and see a message saying that this product requires an iLok 1 or iLok2; so I look it up and see that its a USB dongle that some people have called it Satan in a flashdrive. Seriously, I understand the need to protect intellectual property, but this is going too far. I don't want a device that puts foreign software into my PC just to authenticate a licence that may or may not REMAIN authenticated after buying it. What gives!!??

Is there any alternatives that don't require iLok - top of my head is Vienna, but even then I'm unsure

I can appreciate that a USB dongle is undesirable, but I've never had a problem with them.

It's pretty standard for any music professional to have both an ELicenser and an iLok.

I actually quite like the idea of a USB dongle since it makes your software quite portable, which is great, and I appreciate the need for them from a software side.

It's not really a big deal--I have both--and so far, they've been solid for me.

I wouldn't consider them worth preventing you from purchasing software.

[HoboKa]

I can appreciate that a USB dongle is undesirable, but I've never had a problem with them.

It's pretty standard for any music professional to have both an ELicenser and an iLok.

I actually quite like the idea of a USB dongle since it makes your software quite portable, which is great, and I appreciate the need for them from a software side.

It's not really a big deal--I have both--and so far, they've been solid for me.

I wouldn't consider them worth preventing you from purchasing software.

this is one bullet that I don't want to bite. I'll need 2 think about it I s'pose. Still feeling a little choked though - I'll get over it sooner or later I guess x.x

[theshaggyfreak]

I have a few of these dongles myself for various programs and have never had a problem with them. Hell, I think my iLok is about 8 years old now.

[HoboKa]

I have a few of these dongles myself for various programs and have never had a problem with them. Hell, I think my iLok is about 8 years old now.

Well that's good 2 hear. Regardless, I'm starting off with NI and will work my way up to more fancy shmancy things later. Can't rely on Sampletank and Alchemy Player to get the things I need done for OCR and beyond, so Native Instruments seems to be the best bang for my buck, esp. with big promo sales going on now

So far haven't been bothered to get an iLok by NI so I seem fine for now =p Who knows maybe I'll grab one later...just not a priority.

So um yeah thanks for the support and feedback shaggyfreak and every1 else...yes even Meteo

EDIT

I'm overdrawn for about um.. $50~ till my next paycheque (it's a secret for what I purchased ). Luckily I have a good overdraft plan at the bank otherwise I'd be boned lol.

Edited December 1, 2013 by HoboKa

[lazygecko]

Dongles are dogshit. They're an artificial hassle and cost increase (let's not forget paying for shipping and waiting for the damn thing to arrive as well, if you're purchasing something which is a digital download). It's punishing legit customers and probably making the products more cumbersome to use than the pirate equivalent (stuff like EastWest is going to get cracked regardless of what protection they throw at it). I don't buy products using iLok based on these principles.

[Moseph]

AFAIK, iLok2 hasn't been cracked yet. Though there are only a handful of companies that require the second gen model; most let you use first gen as well. NI seems pretty committed to not locking down Kontakt, so they're a good company to support if you oppose hardware keys.

I used to be super-opposed to hardware keys as well, which is the main reason I originally bought SONAR rather than Cubase years and years ago. But then I needed an orchestral library, and the only real options at that point were Vienna and EWQL, both of which require hardware keys. So I said "fine, then" and got Vienna and never had any problem with the key.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Moseph

[Flexstyle]

I got nothin' against iLok-based stuff. It's been super-easy to work with for the past five years for me.

[Moseph]

Actually, now that I think about it, I did recently pass up the opportunity to buy a plugin on sale that required an iLok2 because I have an iLok1 and didn't want to buy a new one just for a $50 plugin.

The thing that's changed about my approach to hardware keys is that before, I would have been like, "stop trying to inconvenience me/screw me over, EastWest," and now I'm like, "I like you, EastWest, and if you feel a key is necessary for your business model then I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because I want you to keep producing libraries."

Edited December 1, 2013 by Moseph

[avaris]

I got nothin' against iLok-based stuff. It's been super-easy to work with for the past five years for me.

Ditto here as well.

[HoboKa]

Ditto here as well.

I guess you guys have no problem with throwing $50 down the drain >:3

AFAIK, iLok2 hasn't been cracked yet. Though there are only a handful of companies that require the second gen model; most let you use first gen as well. NI seems pretty committed to not locking down Kontakt, so they're a good company to support if you oppose hardware keys.

I used to be super-opposed to hardware keys as well, which is the main reason I originally bought SONAR rather than Cubase years and years ago. But then I needed an orchestral library, and the only real options at that point were Vienna and EWQL, both of which require hardware keys. So I said "fine, then" and got Vienna and never had any problem with the key.

Well spoken Moseph. EWQL won't be making any money off me >:3

Edit over9000

Dongles are dogshit. They're an artificial hassle and cost increase (let's not forget paying for shipping and waiting for the damn thing to arrive as well, if you're purchasing something which is a digital download). It's punishing legit customers and probably making the products more cumbersome to use than the pirate equivalent (stuff like EastWest is going to get cracked regardless of what protection they throw at it). I don't buy products using iLok based on these principles.

Dongle DRM is dogshit indeed.

OKAY, so I guess my mind is set: I'm boycotting any products that require an iLok - I may be limiting myself in some ways, but eh, I can deal with it. As for the rest of you guys who have no issue with using an iLok, well... 'to each their own'. No disrespect intended. Plz don't hate me avaris and Flex q.q

Edited December 2, 2013 by HoboKa

[avaris]

Hoboka you do realize Moseph bought an iLok key...?

Also if you really like the EWQL product and want to get something with your iLok key, for $50 and comes with an iLok2:

http://www.slatedigital.com/products/rc-tube

Also there is no reason to hate on companies using iLok. It is a big f'n pain in the ass to code/maintain your own software protection scheme. Look at it from their perspective. Some of these companies don't have many programmers. Plus coding DSP and software protection are two totally different things.

If you were a developer would rather make awesome plugins or a software protection scheme? And to be honest managing your licenses on an iLok key is wicked easy and seamless. Way easier than going through some ridiculous call and response system on the internet, ala Korg.

As with anything each their own. I don't mind the $50 buy in bc most of my favorite plugins are iLok based. Soundtoys, Kush, Slate Digital, EWQL, etc...

[Flexstyle]

Yeah, basically just everything Avaris said. Moseph was praising hardware keys, not bashing them, if I'm reading it correctly.

I'll just be over here continuing to make music when my system goes offline due to an ISP hiccup. Plus, I got my iLok for free when I got ProTools 7 way back when. Seriously, don't make life harder for yourself just because of some baseless pseudo-moralistic crap. It's cool if you don't want to fill a USB slot, but anyone who says it's any more of a hassle than that is just drinking some messed-up Kool-Aid.

[Moseph]

I'm mildly in favor of hardware keys at this point, but I understand where HoboKa's coming from since that was the stance I took six or seven years ago.

Obviously, I love software that doesn't have to be authenticated at all (like most Kontakt libraries). At this point, though, I'd sooner have things registered to an iLok than authenticated some other way -- at least then I know at a glance how the license works: install wherever I want, and just move the key around. With other forms of authentication, I have to deal with re-authenticating when I install on a new computer, and deleting things off of old computers so as not to be in violation of install-on-only-two-systems clauses, and remembering login details for online accounts tied to the software, and searching my email archives for serial numbers, and so forth. It's just potentially a huge pain in the ass to have to deal with this for all of my software when moving to a new system, and the iLok setup circumvents that particular inconvenience entirely. Six years ago when I had very little audio software to worry about reauthorizing, that point would never have occurred to me, but now it strikes me as a pretty good argument in favor of hardware keys.

Recognizing this has shifted my view from seeing hardware keys as an inconvenience to seeing licenses in general as an inconvenience to which hardware keys are one of several approaches. You still have to deal with a license in a non-iLok situation. Without an iLok, you have to notify the software vendor (that is, re-authenticate) when you replace or substantially modify your computer system, or even uninstall and reinstall. With an iLok, you negotiate the license once and are given a physical object that represents the license, and nobody cares what you do to your computer. Why get bent out of shape about the hardware key? Rather, why not be annoyed that without a hardware key you have to get permission from the vendor to reinstall software that you've been legitimately using for years?

To look at it another way, if some company offered to consolidate and manage all of my software license agreements so I wouldn't have to screw around with them beyond the first authentication, I'd think a one-time payment of $50 would be a pretty good deal. And that's basically what iLok is doing.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Moseph

[HoboKa]

I'm mildly in favor of hardware keys at this point, but I understand where HoboKa's coming from since that was the stance I took six or seven years ago.

Obviously, I love software that doesn't have to be authenticated at all (like most Kontakt libraries). At this point, though, I'd sooner have things registered to an iLok than authenticated some other way -- at least then I know at a glance how the license works: install wherever I want, and just move the key around. With other forms of authentication, I have to deal with re-authenticating when I install on a new computer, and deleting things off of old computers so as not to be in violation of install-on-only-two-systems clauses, and remembering login details for online accounts tied to the software, and searching my email archives for serial numbers, and so forth. It's just potentially a huge pain in the ass to have to deal with this for all of my software when moving to a new system, and the iLok setup circumvents that particular inconvenience entirely. Six years ago when I had very little audio software to worry about reauthorizing, that point would never have occurred to me, but now it strikes me as a pretty good argument in favor of hardware keys.

Recognizing this has shifted my view from seeing hardware keys as an inconvenience to seeing licenses in general as an inconvenience to which hardware keys are one of several approaches. You still have to deal with a license in a non-iLok situation. Without an iLok, you have to notify the software vendor (that is, re-authenticate) when you replace or substantially modify your computer system, or even uninstall and reinstall. With an iLok, you negotiate the license once and are given a physical object that represents the license, and nobody cares what you do to your computer. Why get bent out of shape about the hardware key? Rather, why not be annoyed that without a hardware key you have to get permission from the vendor to reinstall software that you've been legitimately using for years?

To look at it another way, if some company offered to consolidate and manage all of my software license agreements so I wouldn't have to screw around with them beyond the first authentication, I'd think a one-time payment of $50 would be a pretty good deal. And that's basically what iLok is doing.

Oops, sorry about misreading your first post - I have a knack for being too hasty and jumping the gun; please don't think any less of me for that. I have a few coping problems that I'm (finally) working on improving (i.e. better diet, sleep, meds and all that jazz) - it doesn't justify my little paranoid rants but, there it is. At least Avaris and Flexstyle had the good grace to inform me before I went on an even bigger misinformed rant , so thx for that guys.

*ahem* anyhoo, I guess I see the benefit of having all of your licences on a single platform; however, my anxiety compels me to ask "What happens if I lose the iLok, or if it breaks/malfunctions? Will they (the developers) listen to my sob story, or just say tough luck, I've gotta purchase all new licences for products I already own, on top of the new iLok."

...this question sounds stupid on paper and even stupider when said aloud, doesn't it?

Edited December 2, 2013 by HoboKa

[lazygecko]

Pretty sure I've read of several precedents where people have trouble with their iLoks, and they won't get reimbursed, and that's one of the major reasons people have an issue with it.

[Flexstyle]

*ahem* anyhoo, I guess I see the benefit of having all of your licences on a single platform; however, my anxiety compels me to ask "What happens if I lose the iLok, or if it breaks/malfunctions? Will they (the developers) listen to my sob story, or just say tough luck, I've gotta purchase all new licences for products I already own, on top of the new iLok."

...this question sounds stupid on paper and even stupider when said aloud, doesn't it?

Not necessarily. My understanding is that you can get a replacement, but it is a process. Thankfully, I've never had to deal with that process, so I'm still a happy camper--plus, I don't actually ever move my iLok around, so it's ALWAYS on my main studio rig. That concern is a legitimate one, I think.

Thankfully, it's a stable piece of hardware, and the only concern I have is related to its physical, latitude-and-longitude location, which I religiously protect.

[Argle]

There was some big clusterfuck with iLok this year IIRC. As someone who owns an eLicenser though I can't say no way to how to dongles, since I eventually relented. When I look for new stuff I always look for non-DRM/serial number stuff first, then challenge/response, lastly dongles. So far the only concession I've made is VSL. I try to reward companies who don't use odious DRM.

[avaris]

There was some big clusterfuck with iLok this year IIRC.

Yeah that was this year. They released an update for the iLok software that didn't work on some peoples computers.

[Kanthos]

iLoks also are problematic should you wish to resell something. If I want to resell something on an eLicenser key, I just need to get a second key (or have the purchaser bring one, if we're meeting in person), and I can transfer the license from one key to another. With an iLok, I think there's a fee in addition to any restrictions the software vendor might place (eg. you can't legally resell EWQL products).

[Nabeel Ansari]

Yeah, iLok is a complete piece of crap. $50 for this little tiny thing that I can LOSE. I don't care about license/hardware/software morality. I do care that I had to pay $50 for this glorified usb drive with a few megabytes of memory in order to use my new software which I already paid $200 for.

Went home for the weekend, accidentally left it at school.

Couldn't use any of my samples, and if I wanted to, I'd have to pay another ridiculous heap of cash to subscribe to a service that gives me a temporary license if I justify that I lost the iLok.

I have two computers and I take one wherever I go. "Leave it in your computer"; no thanks buddy.

And yeah, pretty much every testimonial in support of iLok is "i left it in the same usb slot for the past x years and it didn't explode so it's pretty great." pretty much ignoring the actual inconvenience of using a tiny piece of removable hardware to have your studio function.

NI doesn't have this problem. They realize expensive DRM hurts business way more than the invisible "hit" by piracy.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Neblix