Another Stickerbrush/Bramble

[THIEF]

I'm incredibly new to this and am currently trying to tackle some of the basics, so I thought I'd dive in with a piece I know really well and try to make it something special if I can. Any and all suggestions are more than welcome!!

Of course this track is in the VERY early stages. I'm basically just trying to get the instruments I want involved so I can figure out what I want to play over it, and to see if its something that sounds like it would eventually make it on the site. The instruments I have in mind so far are:

-ukulele (for strumming chords)

-ocarina (melody)

-low D Irish whistle

-bamboo flute (that I made!)

-cajon (possibly)

Once I find some samples I like I'm also adding a trap set for some tasty grooves and obnoxious rocking out toward the end, naturally.

Here's my WIP:http://picosong.com/YmAK

Source:

Edited February 7, 2014 by THIEF

[Phonetic Hero]

Feedback incoming, but first things first... Your handle wouldn't happen to be a reference to Link's Awakening, would it?

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I'm only using earbuds at the moment but those opening guitar like samples don't sound very pleasant at all. Also, humanization is going to be a big thing with this one. You might be a person that worries about all that afterwords, but do make sure those samples sound real - especially the percussion seeing as this is more of a percussion song.

Also make sure everything is sort of spaced out with reverb well, that's usually a big step to making things sound pretty real.

Also those drums being panned to the right can be kind of distracting, you might considering centering those more or balancing it out with something in the left ear.

[THIEF]

Feedback incoming, but first things first... Your handle wouldn't happen to be a reference to Link's Awakening, would it?

if by "handle" you mean my username then yes, yes it is! Glad someone caught that haha

I'm only using earbuds at the moment but those opening guitar like samples don't sound very pleasant at all. Also, humanization is going to be a big thing with this one. You might be a person that worries about all that afterwords, but do make sure those samples sound real - especially the percussion seeing as this is more of a percussion song.

It may be your earbuds that makes it sound so off. All of my sounds so far (except for the strings) are live samples from EWQL RA. Or maybe the headphones I'm using are just really bassy.... I'll look into it. As for humanization I try to do it as I go along. The staccato panflute is the only instrument that I can't seem to change the volume level for each note for some reason, so once I figure that out it should sound a lot better. I want to have each measure start out at a good volume then decrescendo.

Oh and the "guitar like sample" is a banjo, lol. I may need to mess with the settings to make it sound more distinctly.... banjo

Also those drums being panned to the right can be kind of distracting, you might considering centering those more or balancing it out with something in the left ear.

I haven't panned anything right or left, its all set to center

Edited February 7, 2014 by THIEF

[Phonetic Hero]

Haha, I KNEW it! Coincidentally, I just finished up my first playthrough where I actually stole something, so I picked it up pretty quickly

The guitar sounds more like a banjo, I dunno if it's the instrument or the processing. Sounds pretty dull, like a lot of the higher register has been filtered out on the EQ

The instrumentation is pretty good, I think the biggest problem right now is the dryness and the lack of humanization (especially on the bamboo chiffs in the beginning). Everything except for that flute (shaku? sounds great, whatever it is, nice going on that one!) sounds pretty dry, and imo this is a source that deserves humongous ambiance, it just begs for huge and spacious mixing. The guitar would benefit from some delay (I'd go with an eighth note sort of delay in this instance, but that's me) or just an instrument switch altogether, and almost everything could do with some more reverb and saturation/depth in my opinion. It sounds pretty flat and confined as it is

I've heard EWQL gets some things very right, and others very wrong, and I actually think this is a good example of utilizing some of both. Not every library is going to be 100% good all the time. In fact, I just bought another orchestral library myself and am experiencing some issues with narrow use/purpose. With more organic sequencing, you REALLY have to pick and choose your instruments wisely when realism is the goal. Some of the sampled instruments will be great, others, not so much. You've got to learn to utilize what's good, and either get rid of the bad or get creative with it to construct a context in which it would fit. Honestly, in this case, I think the guitar isn't really cutting the mustard, and I'd just switch it out completely. The chiffs I think will be ok with some work, you'll just have to be careful and pay attention to velocities to get a more realistic sound (maybe some creative processing as well). They're also a prime example of something that would benefit from some delay saturation once you get the humanization down, but try to work on the humanization before doing anything else with them.

I know you said you're pretty new to this stuff, so if you need clarification on anything, I'd be happy to clear up any confusion!

EDIT: Ah, just read through more carefully haha. So are you planning to replace a lot of the instruments with live performances? And also, Even though your instruments may not be panned, the default "centered" position may not actually be center with some of those sampled instruments. Check the levels on a stereo meter with those drums, because aspects of them are definitely coming through more left or more right

Edited February 7, 2014 by Phonetic Hero

[Argle]

I like it when it gets going at 1:30. The arrangement starts to sound natural then. The mixing definitely seems off. Staccato parts are quite mechanical. More reverb, please.

[THIEF]

I see.... I know what you mean about the staccato pan flute chords, they were bugging me too actually, just couldn't figure out why I couldn't change the volume levels. I decided it was the particular instrument, so I chose a different panflute sound, which I can't tell if I like or not, even if the volume is better- the reason I'm unsure is that it automatically emphasizes different pitches/notes, which helps humanization, but it also means I'm not entirely in control of what it sounds like.... so idk.

I added some more reverb to everything. I think I'm pretty set on the banjo, I like the raw, thuddy.... banjo-ness... of the sound. Of course that means I'll need to find a way to pretty it up in parts, specifically the chords, whether I just find something else to layer under it to make it more warm, or add some effects or something (once I learn how). Speaking of the banjo, when I added some dynamic changes to the chords it also took over the ostinato, so I'm looking into a way around that.

EDIT: Ah, just read through more carefully haha. So are you planning to replace a lot of the instruments with live performances?

I don't necessarily want to replace any of these instruments with live ones, but I want to add ocarina melody for sure, and work in my low D whistle as well which would fill up a lot of the sound. I think the whole project will start coming together a lot better once I understand how those live tracks fit with everything else, then I can concentrate on the rest of the music complimenting and carrying the melody... at least that's how its going to work in my head, haha.

I'm about to start writing out some more auxiliary percussion parts that should make it a little less dull, then I'll post an update.

The more I think about it, the more I want to add some electronic sounds, maybe some dub-step style bass stuff and effects, but try not to stray too far from the feel of live music if possible. Actually I'm thinking of having a bass drop to break into the drumset stuff, and that's probably where I'll have some live upbeat ukulele strumming or guitar

Thanks for the replies! this is already proving helpful

Edited February 8, 2014 by THIEF
new thoughts.

[Anorax]

I like it when it gets going at 1:30.

I was listening to OP's WIP for the first time when I read your comment. I was going to find out where 1:30 was, but then I heard it right as I read this comment and it was fairly obvious where I was at that point.

I think I'm pretty set on the banjo, I like the raw, thuddy.... banjo-ness... of the sound. Of course that means I'll need to find a way to pretty it up in parts, specifically the chords, whether I just find something else to layer under it to make it more warm, or add some effects or something (once I learn how). Speaking of the banjo, when I added some dynamic changes to the chords it also took over the ostinato, so I'm looking into a way around that.

Here's something with the banjo that just might help humanization - try studying and emulating banjo playing styles (clawhammer vs finger picked) and how chords are performed with each. This might help a lot here.

From what I know of banjo* (which is next to nothing), clawhammer is usually played alternating between the root of the chord and the rest of the chord (say, on one beat "C" would be played, then the next beat "E" and "G" would be played, and back and forth). Finger picking is more of a broken chord style, each note of the chord is played independently of the others.

*I basically just BSed this paragraph. I have no idea if this is how these styles are played/notated. Take with a grain silo of salt.

I will say though, at 1:30, I like the dynamics you applied to the mallets (Marimba? Definitely not xylophone, unless you wrote this part on the really low end of the xylophone sample's range). I think you could build more off of the mallets, maybe use them for more than just the rhythm and chords. I am not in any way saying don't use them for rhythm+chords, you do this well already and it would be detrimental to take it away at this point, but just to build off of them.

You have some really good ideas, it's just all about execution at this point. What DAW do you use?

Edited February 8, 2014 by Anorax

[THIEF]

Here's something with the banjo that just might help humanization - try studying and emulating banjo playing styles (clawhammer vs finger picked) and how chords are performed with each. This might help a lot here.

From what I know of banjo* (which is next to nothing), clawhammer is usually played alternating between the root of the chord and the rest of the chord (say, on one beat "C" would be played, then the next beat "E" and "G" would be played, and back and forth). Finger picking is more of a broken chord style, each note of the chord is played independently of the others.

That actually makes a lot of sense lol I'll have to do some studying tomorrow!

I will say though, at 1:30, I like the dynamics you applied to the mallets (Marimba? Definitely not xylophone, unless you wrote this part on the really low end of the xylophone sample's range). I think you could build more off of the mallets, maybe use them for more than just the rhythm and chords. I am not in any way saying don't use them for rhythm+chords, you do this well already and it would be detrimental to take it away at this point, but just to build off of them.

Thanks. Its actually a kalimba (thumb piano). I used to play marimba/vibes in an independent drumline so I'm pretty familiar with the instrument(s).

What DAW do you use?

I'm using FL Studio, mostly just because I had it a few years ago and at least know the basics. I don't even know of any other DAWs to be honest.

So the piece is eating up my CPU so much I can't get a good playthrough anymore. I did some reverb and humanization work and I want to update the thread, but I guess I have to figure out a way around this problem first. I'm probably buying a mic tomorrow to record the ocarina melody, and the ukulele and possibly guitar, which may have to replace some of the instruments I have so far in order to free up some space, if that's even how it works. I know EWQL samples use a lot of power. There's even a banjo here in my apartment I could use, but the highest string....peg.... thing.. is broke, so I'm not sure I even want to go there.

Actually, here's the newest version anyway: http://picosong.com/YuTM

Excuse the slight glitchiness.

Edited February 8, 2014 by THIEF

[Phonetic Hero]

So the piece is eating up my CPU so much I can't get a good playthrough anymore. I did some reverb and humanization work and I want to update the thread, but I guess I have to figure out a way around this problem first. I'm probably buying a mic tomorrow to record the ocarina melody, and the ukulele and possibly guitar, which may have to replace some of the instruments I have so far in order to free up some space, if that's even how it works. I know EWQL samples use a lot of power. There's even a banjo here in my apartment I could use, but the highest string....peg.... thing.. is broke, so I'm not sure I even want to go there.

That's weird, I've heard EWQL is supposed to be pretty light... What version of FL are you using? You might be maxing out the available application RAM as opposed to your CPU, and if that's the case, there's a way to open the program with extended RAM. You might find this helpful, I've had to refer to it more than once

[Anorax]

ah. Should've known the kalimba. It didn't really sound like a marimba (but then again, the marimba my school has doesn't always sound like a marimba either so there's always that)

So the piece is eating up my CPU so much I can't get a good playthrough anymore. I did some reverb and humanization work and I want to update the thread, but I guess I have to figure out a way around this problem first.

I don't know if FL offers the ability to freeze tracks (it should, and if it doesn't then that's a huuuuge drawback). If it does then try freezing the more CPU-intensive tracks as you go along. (Just in case you didn't know, freezing a track makes your DAW temporarily bounce the track to an audio file for use during playback, so that the instrument and effects aren't being used by the CPU).

Edited February 10, 2014 by Anorax

[timaeus222]

So the piece is eating up my CPU so much I can't get a good playthrough anymore. I did some reverb and humanization work and I want to update the thread, but I guess I have to figure out a way around this problem first.

Either use the "FL.exe" file for FL 11 instead of the "FL (extended memory).exe" file from FL 10 (both of these let you use more than 4 GB RAM), or get more RAM for your computer.

[THIEF]

I got frustrated with trying to get my project in FL Studio to play right and started messing with my mic in audacity. This is the sort of feel I wanted to go with, obviously mixed better, and I want some of the other instruments from my FL Studio version, especially the drums and kalimba, and pan flute if I can make it work right. Anyway, I thought I'd share this to give a better idea of what I'm trying to do in case anyone has suggestions on how to mix this with.... whatever you call non live instruments.

http://picosong.com/YNXX

Its sloppy yeah, but I didn't really plan anything out, and I've never recorded before

[Anorax]

If you had the right version of FL, you could record straight into your FL project. I don't know if you do or not (you very well could), so what you can do in either case is record in audacity (with a metronome) and import into FL.

Did you record all the instruments in this version? I like what you did with this, even if it is unplanned. This is pretty good for a first attempt at recording! Only thing I really noticed was some cable noise at the very beginning.

[THIEF]

Its been a LONG time, but I've finally taken up interest again in making this into something. I basically have to re-record all of the tracks, but I guess for now I can throw stuff together for arrangement ideas, then write out what I like.

All I've done here is add a few bamboo flute tracks for the melody, but its giving me an idea of where I want to go I think... idk.

http://picosong.com/cr5b