General tips for instrument choice?

[digitalxero]

How do you typically pick out your instrumentation for a piece?

I'm looking for any advice on this, since I've been struggling a bit trying to figure out what goes well together. When I go through the samples/synth sounds individually they all sound fine on their own, but when I start trying to put them together it'll not always sound that great, and I'm not sure what I can do to adjust it the way I want. I understand that generally speaking you'll want different parts like a lead, rhythm, harmonic, and background(?), and that different genres/styles will usually call for different types of instruments, but beyond that I'm not really sure what to consider. I feel like I've been slowly improving with each attempt, but I'm not at a point where I'm content with the result yet.

I realize this is pretty subjective and probably a somewhat vague question, but I figure that any advice is better than nothing

[DarkDjinn]

How do you typically pick out your instrumentation for a piece?

I'm looking for any advice on this, since I've been struggling a bit trying to figure out what goes well together. When I go through the samples/synth sounds individually they all sound fine on their own, but when I start trying to put them together it'll not always sound that great, and I'm not sure what I can do to adjust it the way I want. I understand that generally speaking you'll want different parts like a lead, rhythm, harmonic, and background(?), and that different genres/styles will usually call for different types of instruments, but beyond that I'm not really sure what to consider. I feel like I've been slowly improving with each attempt, but I'm not at a point where I'm content with the result yet.

I realize this is pretty subjective and probably a somewhat vague question, but I figure that any advice is better than nothing

This book is great: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Dictionary-Orchestration-The-Series/dp/0739000217

I have it and I consult it when looking for ways to enhance my music. It's very detailed and includes pages of info on each orchestra instrument, including a description of the sound and how each instrument is best used .

[timaeus222]

I pick my instruments based on the mood I want to evoke and the frequencies that are empty at the time. It really depends. I think it'll help quite a bit if you synthesize your own sounds so you can ingrain how it is a sound is made, and that way you can try synthesizing them in your head as you imagine them, and look for what you're imagining. In time, it can become straightforward to think about how you want realistic instruments to sound before you pick them out and process them (because real instruments are usually less complicated than synthesized sounds, if you already have a base sample ).

Edited December 9, 2014 by timaeus222

[DusK]

I use real instruments, because real instruments are the shit. Don't fuck around.

Really, though, what Timmy said. If you feel like a certain instrument doesn't sound the way you think it should be sounding, you can always use effects like EQ, reverb, etc.

Just not too much. If you have to go overboard, what you thought might work just really won't.

[AngelCityOutlaw]

The dynamics of the melody are one thing to consider. The thing about guitars and pianos and why composers have historically favored them for composing is that they can easily play just about any basic articulation. Legato, staccato, etc. and be translated to another instrument. Often, especially with orchestral stuff, I start by playing the melody on just guitar or piano and then see what instrument(s) would be most suitable given the dynamics and range of the phrase.

Like Tim said, frequency content. As awesome as that bass or whatever you have might sound by itself, it might not mix so well with whatever is playing lead at the time and sometimes EQing doesn't cut it and your best off to just choose a different instrument.

[timaeus222]

The dynamics of the melody are one thing to consider. ... Legato, staccato, etc. and be translated to another instrument.

...

Like Tim said, frequency content. As awesome as that bass or whatever you have might sound by itself, it might not mix so well with whatever is playing lead at the time and sometimes EQing doesn't cut it and your best off to just choose a different instrument.

Oh yeah, that's another good point. Sometimes there's a particular type of instrument that you know you want to use, but maybe you have multiple samples or VSTs that can give you the tone character you want. For example, if you realize a piano would really make the song, you have choices between a hard-toned piano, a multi-velocity-layer ultra-realistic piano with a range between soft and hard tones, or maybe one from a specific set that's just really unique (like Roland SC-88, or FluidR3, or somethin').

Also, you could even go more specific into the sound's playing capabilities. Do you want it to sound legato? Retrigger? For example, I would generally use legato for synth leads, or retrigger for a pitch-envelope bass or a cinematic "pulse" bass (not a pulse wave, but in the sense of straight quarter notes in a horror genre, perhaps), or something like that. (If you're using a real instrument, that can be read up on, since flutes can't only be played staccato, cellos can't only be played legato, etc. but that's obvious)

Edited December 10, 2014 by timaeus222

[digitalxero]

I think it'll help quite a bit if you synthesize your own sounds so you can ingrain how it is a sound is made, and that way you can try synthesizing them in your head as you imagine them, and look for what you're imagining. In time, it can become straightforward to think about how you want realistic instruments to sound before you pick them out and process them (because real instruments are usually less complicated than synthesized sounds, if you already have a base sample ).

I have tried making some of my own synthesizer sounds, to varying degrees of success. I guess I'll need to keep at it though until I can really start to understand it. I've read that when first starting out a subtractive synth is the simplest way to go, and after you're comfortable with that then you can move on to other forms like FM or wavetable (I've looked at some FM, and while it looks cool I will say it just looks like black magic to me right now).

Something else I've heard, particularly for trying to learn a specific synth, is to listen to some of the presets and try to reproduce them without looking at the parameter settings. It does feel a bit daunting though when starting out. I think I have to agree that real instruments do seem less complicated

The dynamics of the melody are one thing to consider. The thing about guitars and pianos and why composers have historically favored them for composing is that they can easily play just about any basic articulation. Legato, staccato, etc. and be translated to another instrument. Often, especially with orchestral stuff, I start by playing the melody on just guitar or piano and then see what instrument(s) would be most suitable given the dynamics and range of the phrase.

Never actually thought about this (contextually, at least). I did know that different types of instruments will allow for different articulations, but I hadn't thought of picking an instrument specifically for its dynamics and articulation. I'd like to attempt some orchestral stuff at some point, so that'll definitely be useful to know.

[timaeus222]

I have tried making some of my own synthesizer sounds, to varying degrees of success. I guess I'll need to keep at it though until I can really start to understand it. I've read that when first starting out a subtractive synth is the simplest way to go, and after you're comfortable with that then you can move on to other forms like FM or wavetable (I've looked at some FM, and while it looks cool I will say it just looks like black magic to me right now).

Something else I've heard, particularly for trying to learn a specific synth, is to listen to some of the presets and try to reproduce them without looking at the parameter settings. It does feel a bit daunting though when starting out. I think I have to agree that real instruments do seem less complicated

Yeah, I agree, the structure of a subtractive synth is fairly straightforward to understand, if you take the time to read up on it (I didn't when I first started ).

Basically, you usually start with an oscillator (might be called VCO for voltage-controlled oscillator), which is a module that gives you a starting waveform, such as saw, square, triangle, sine, or maybe noise; send the output through a filter (might be called VCF for voltage-controlled filter) that attenuates/cuts out some frequencies or changes the width of the frequency band (small width = resonance, high gain = brings the pain; no gain, no pain! ); and optionally modulate/modify with things like a low-frequency oscillator (LFO; inaudible) or an envelope (ADSR; attack, decay, sustain, release).

I think if you get used to imagining what happens through that process, even just how the input sounded and how the output could sound, you can think up sounds and decide "okay, to make this sound, I should probably do this, then this, then this." or "I have this sound somewhere... it's on the tip of my tongue... now where was it?"

FM is a little funky (also an inside joke, 'cause you can make e. pianos with it!), and the theory on that was pretty hard when I tried to read up on it (I ultimately just figured it out by experimentation). It's essentially when a waveform gets stretched and compressed according to the slope of another waveform over time (stretching = positive slope, compressing = negative slope). What you get is a sound that becomes buzzier as the frequency increases; some might call it "gritty" in some cases, or "glassy" in other cases. It gets even more interesting when you change the pitch of either the incoming oscillator or the FM oscillator, since that changes how the wavelengths of the waveform line up a bit, creating less "standard" modulations.

Wavetable is more or less just a way to draw your own waveforms, or use predrawn waveforms. It's not much more than having more interesting "basic" waveforms to begin with in a synth.

Edited December 10, 2014 by timaeus222

[digitalxero]

FM is a little funky (also an inside joke, 'cause you can make e. pianos with it!), and the theory on that was pretty hard when I tried to read up on it (I ultimately just figured it out by experimentation). It's essentially when a waveform gets stretched and compressed according to the slope of another waveform over time (stretching = positive slope, compressing = negative slope). What you get is a sound that becomes buzzier as the frequency increases; some might call it "gritty" in some cases, or "glassy" in other cases. It gets even more interesting when you change the pitch of either the incoming oscillator or the FM oscillator, since that changes how the wavelengths of the waveform line up a bit, creating less "standard" modulations.

I like your explanation, but when I said FM was black magic I wasn't entirely referring to just the concepts behind it. What I meant was some of the insane sounds you can produce with it, eg. the trumpet preset in Sytrus. These sounds are awesome, and I really want to learn more about how they work. However, I also want to make sure I have a good handle on how subtractive synths work before I start trying to take on more complex ones

Wavetable is more or less just a way to draw your own waveforms, or use predrawn waveforms. It's not much more than having more interesting "basic" waveforms to begin with in a synth.

After having seen a little more of it I totally agree -- wavetable is pretty much standard waveform++ (although that doesn't stop you from being able to do really cool things with it).

[Nabeel Ansari]

Color.

Sound is about color. The only way to choose your instruments in a way that pleases you more is to listen to music and see what instruments sound like in various circumstances. With orchestration, listen to your favorite orchestral pieces, and see what instruments are played in what octaves, what's being double for the melody, etc.

The art of orchestration is choosing the colors you see fit and then fleshing them out. Want high and soaring? Double violins with flutes/piccolo. Want really punchy and bright? Trumpets and horns, maybe accented with a percussive hit. Want mellow and solemn? Horns work, along oboes and bassoons which are *wonderful* for that.

Obviously synths are a different ball game, sure. Your understanding of color/texture still helps you, as you have a general idea of what kind of sound fits your track. Glassy? Bright? Edgy? Mellow? Thick and rough? Thick and smooth? Etc. etc. You need to know what you want before you pick your instruments. If you don't know, cycle through the colors at random and seeing what fits. Eventually you'll develop the ability to know what you want without trial and error.