PRODYON - bad news, GREAT SALE, next two days only

[djpretzel]

http://www.prodyon-virtual-gear.com/goodbuy.html

Some issues with VAT... insane prices on same great libraries; I bought shortnoise 2 for much more and still thought it was worth it.

[Necrox]

Unbelievable... Thanks for posting this!

Edit: Is this legit?

Edited December 31, 2014 by Necrox

[Moseph]

Purchased; thanks for posting this.

This is the second indie sample dev I've seen have to curtail its operations as a direct result of the new VAT legislation. I hope things get straightened out in a way that eases the burdens of compliance for small businesses.

(The other is Nucleus Soundlab, which as of Jan 1st is suspending sales to EU customers until further notice.)

Edited December 31, 2014 by Moseph

[Nutritious]

Thanks for the link, Dave. Gonna pick up Short Noise today. Actually, since this is a German company, I'm assuming it's shutting down midnight local time. So that means a little under 7 hours from now.

Looking at the VAT discussion in KVR audio and it looks like a real mess. I wonder how it impacts businesses like Impact Soundworks or OC Records selling to European customers?

[lazygecko]

They could fix that whole VAT mess by having a revenue threshold just like on regular taxes. But EU gonna EU.

[Nutritious]

Was just talking to Andy about this. This VAT legislation only applies to countries *in the European Union*, ergo, ISW and OCRecords have absolutely nothing to do with it.

The problem is *not* that American companies now have to observe VAT for European customers (because they don't have to, that's not changing), but rather that a EU company can no longer charge a singular VAT rate for their own country that they live in. Rather, they now have to observe VAT for every possible EU country that a customer can buy from.

So if I made a company called "Phantom Soundforge" and I was based in the UK, and I had a buyer in Spain, one in France, and one in Germany, I now have to deal with the tax regulations and procedures of three separate governments. For every different country a buyer is in, I have to deal with this. Before, I was just a UK company, and dealt with UK VAT.

But if I was US-based, I don't have to do anything. I'm an American business, and I deal with the American government. The European government has no jurisdiction on me, even if customers from there are buying my products. Those customers pay american tax, if I sell the kind of goods that warrant taxes.

From everything I've read, that's simply not the case. Reference:

http://rsmi.com/publications/border-crossing/490-europe-how-european-vat-impacts-us-companies.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/11295953/How-the-EU-is-throttling-online-business-with-idiotic-VAT-reform.html

It's not just EU businesses that will be affected, either – anyone wanting to sell into the EU will have to comply with the rules via their payment processor, and enter a Kafkaesque world where they have to comply with as many as 75 different tax and reporting regimes. Already, payment processors – such as Selz and SendOwl – are offering the option to exclude EU customers to prevent sellers having to deal with this farrago.

https://econsultancy.com/blog/65810-new-eu-vat-regulations-threaten-small-businesses-vatmoss/

This one seemed particularly applicable:

This rule will literally affect millions of people worldwide (not just the EU/UK). A teenager in the USA who records a song and sells it online to someone in France will be incriminated if they don't register for VAT in said country, even if they don't have a job!

Apparently, the whole point of this was to enforce sales tax upon large US internet-based vendors (like apple itunes and amazon) that were able to previously avoid it. Unfortunately, there's no lower threshold to exlude small companies from being burdened with these requirements, which is what is causing the current uproar. Many people are saying this will actually have the effect of driving businesses towards big resellers or payment processors who have the manpower and scale to comply with the regulations.

Now, enforcement is obviously a completely different story. Like you mentioned, the EU lacks jurisdiction against US companies (at least those without a presence in the EU I believe). I've read speculation that a treaty would have to be signed by both countries for that to change.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Interesting, I think the poor wording of the information being spread around is not helping anyone either.

That certainly sounds pretty awful.

[big giant circles]

Seems there's a problem with their site and you can't actually buy these anymore. I guess I missed the sale?

[Nutritious]

Seems there's a problem with their site and you can't actually buy these anymore. I guess I missed the sale?

Yeah, he basically said he had to shutdown as of 1/1/2015 to avoid the VAT/MOSS mess and wasn't sure at this point whether or not he'll be able to offer his products for sale in the future.