fxsnowy Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 So my band makes video game hip hop music. An indie game maker asked to have our music be part of a video game his 13-year old son was making. We agreed. The game got released, and a guy reviewed the game on his website. When he got to the soundtrack, he praised it, but criticized one of our songs song saying that we stole the riff of the "final fantasy battle theme", slightly altering it. We did use the final fantasy battle theme as a solo, but as an homage to the game we love. The song is about video games (we use megaman samples throughout the song), so we thought it would be a perfect fit. Is this ripping off music? Are we in trouble? Link to the song: https://soundcloud.com/seizuremachine/bit-hop solo at 1: 58 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Well, they're actually quite similar. At 1:58 - 2:33, the only difference as far as I can tell is one note (0:15 in the original, 2:08 in yours) and the rhythm overall (I don't count the arpeggiated sustains as different to the note without the arpeggiation). Even the fast run at 2:31 - 2:33 is pretty much the same note-for-note. I have to sort of agree with the reviewer, though he may have been too serious; that "solo" is 17.4% of the whole song, and it isn't a major contribution. Anyone else have a view on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxsnowy Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Well, they're actually quite similar. At 1:58 - 2:33, the only difference as far as I can tell is one note (0:15 in the original, 2:08 in yours) and the rhythm overall (I don't count the arpeggiated sustains as different to the note without the arpeggiation). Even the fast run at 2:31 - 2:33 is pretty much the same note-for-note. I have to sort of agree with the reviewer, though he may have been too serious; that "solo" is 17.4% of the whole song, and it isn't a major contribution. Anyone else have a view on this? I never claimed it was safe just because we altered it a tiny bit. I thought it was safe because 1. It is just a solo 2. The song is about video games, and 3. The style is chiptune. But yea maybe it wasn't such a good idea to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 1. It is just a solo Not a consideration in copyright law. And it's hardly a solo, it's the verbatim melody. A solo is improvisational and unique. 2. The song is about video games Not a consideration in copyright law. If I write a commercial song about Billie Jean, and use the Billie Jean lyrics in it during a "solo", I'm still going to get sued. 3. The style is chiptune. If I cover Billie Jean in chiptune form and sell it, it's still copyright infringement. The only circumstances where you can quote other people's music in your own is any time you can invoke Fair Use, and even that varies situation to situation at the whim of the copyright holder. Square Enix? They're real stingy about copyright. However, Fair Use does not cover commercial use regardless, so if this game is being sold, you're violating copyright law and there's nothing that can protect you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxsnowy Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Not a consideration in copyright law. And it's hardly a solo, it's the verbatim melody. A solo is improvisational and unique. Not a consideration in copyright law. If I write a commercial song about Billie Jean, and use the Billie Jean lyrics in it during a "solo", I'm still going to get sued. If I cover Billie Jean in chiptune form and sell it, it's still copyright infringement. The only circumstances where you can quote other people's music in your own is any time you can invoke Fair Use, and even that varies situation to situation at the whim of the copyright holder. Square Enix? They're real stingy about copyright. However, Fair Use does not cover commercial use regardless, so if this game is being sold, you're violating copyright law and there's nothing that can protect you. Hardly a solo? I was talking about my song, not the battle theme. I took a main riff from the battle theme of FF and used it as a solo. If I used it as the main melody of the song then it would be clear I am ripping them off. Ok so I guess as long as I don't sell that song I should be fine, but since the game with the song is being sold it should be changed. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Hardly a solo? I was talking about my song, not the battle theme. I took a main riff from the battle theme of FF and used it as a solo. If I used it as the main melody of the song then it would be clear I am ripping them off. Ok so I guess as long as I don't sell that song I should be fine, but since the game with the song is being sold it should be changed. Thanks It doesn't matter if it's a main melody or a sub-section of your song. It doesn't matter if it's the focus or if it's in the background. In your song, the melody is clearly presented in a foreground element (the tremolo chip lead thing). We're not talking about an improvisational jazz solo where you accidentally played a few notes from the FF battle theme; you are quoting (not referencing) the FF battle theme in the foreground lead instrument for about 22 whole seconds starting at 1:58. There's no room for error here, it's clear that it's the FF battle theme, so it's copyright infringement. Keep in mind I'm not saying this to be a dick, but I'm giving you a hard time specifically because you need to imagine how you'd explain this in a legal situation were you to get sued. If you understand that mindset, you can avoid doing this kind of thing in the future. It's only because this is for a commercial purpose that it matters so much; if this was just some freeware game, it's still technically infringement, but it's not "wrong" per se, so long as you don't get caught and told to cease and desist. Free fan games use copyrighted game music all the time. fxsnowy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxsnowy Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 It doesn't matter if it's a main melody or a sub-section of your song. It doesn't matter if it's the focus or if it's in the background. In your song, the melody is clearly presented in a foreground element (the tremolo chip lead thing). We're not talking about an improvisational jazz solo where you accidentally played a few notes from the FF battle theme; you are quoting (not referencing) the FF battle theme in the foreground lead instrument for about 22 whole seconds starting at 1:58. There's no room for error here, it's clear that it's the FF battle theme, so it's copyright infringement. Keep in mind I'm not saying this to be a dick, but I'm giving you a hard time specifically because you need to imagine how you'd explain this in a legal situation were you to get sued. If you understand that mindset, you can avoid doing this kind of thing in the future. It's only because this is for a commercial purpose that it matters so much; if this was just some freeware game, it's still technically infringement, but it's not "wrong" per se, so long as you don't get caught and told to cease and desist. Free fan games use copyrighted game music all the time. Yea I understand, I guess referencing was the wrong word. Another Question. The reviewer also complained about megaman samples, which we have throuout the whole song. The samples are just sound effects. Is that a problem too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yea I understand, I guess referencing was the wrong word. Another Question. The reviewer also complained about megaman samples, which we have throuout the whole song. The samples are just sound effects. Is that a problem too? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Yea I understand, I guess referencing was the wrong word. Another Question. The reviewer also complained about megaman samples, which we have throuout the whole song. The samples are just sound effects. Is that a problem too? Technically speaking, sound design is copyrighted as well in video games, so yes, it's a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxsnowy Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Technically speaking, sound design is copyrighted as well in video games, so yes, it's a problem. Ok. But I'm curious then how can remixers like Joshua Morse release a full video game remix album and profit out of it? Wouldn't that be copyright infringement as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Ok. But I'm curious then how can remixers like Joshua Morse release a full video game remix album and profit out of it? Wouldn't that be copyright infringement as well? Not if they have obtained a license for all of the songs on the album they release. The same goes for cover tunes of pop songs. fxsnowy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabeel Ansari Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Ok. But I'm curious then how can remixers like Joshua Morse release a full video game remix album and profit out of it? Wouldn't that be copyright infringement as well? They pay for that right by getting a license. fxsnowy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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