Sign in to follow this  
ShadowRaz

Orchestral (&) Melodic Dubstep/Drumstep production

Recommended Posts

Hello.

 

I have gotten really interested on producing both orchestral and rather melodic dubstep/drumstep styles lately and have tried to fit them them all into single tracks, and i was wondering are there people here interested on same category? I would be interested on hearing of such productions and discussing about them in general

What about just producing only orchestral and or only melodic dubstep or drumstep? I was suggested to come visit here from DSF ninja community in hopes of advice for building full on orchestral music, well i have in fact already tried to compose some full orchestral pieces already on my own, but my compositions have been rather short so far so i have mostly only made them as intros on my tracks with virtual instruments mostly from Native Instruments and then just started making beats and sound designs after that with an faster tempo, here is my latest example:

 

So any opinions or advice on that? I got already one useful advice on which i totally agreed: the part on around 1:50 in the track, on which i stop the orchestral intro and started making the verse and chorus, i first lower the tempo even lower down from 110bpm for few seconds and then lift it up to around 160bpm so i can make faster almost drumstep style track, but that precise part does sound kind of.. off, because the super saw sound design sounds weird while speeding up.. so should i make the part on which i change the tempo totally quiet and/or at least faster or with different sounds.. or should i just try to make full orchestral tracks as in keeping the 'intro' of my tracks out and making dubstep and drumstep and orchestral separate, trying to fit too much into single tracks can be kind of.. weird.. what do you think?

Well then again on my own opinion, i like to try to fit lot's of stuff into my productions because for example the orchestral intro does bring rather exciting feeling into the track but then when it changes into dubstep/drumstep, it does have some sort of other feeling which makes me enjoy making the production.

What about mixing and mastering? I have sucked at it especially earlier on and have tried to practice it more alongside with sound design and build practice and am not super familiar with chords either in general how they actually work, so far i've mostly just tried playing them on my midi keyboard or adjusting them otherwise in piano roll which would sound about right. 

My choice of DAW is Fl Studio 12 which seems to be my kind of workstation in all other parts except it being really hard on my CPU (annoying lag sometimes when there is lot's of stuff happening at the same time and CPU peaks at 100% usage) so don't know if any other would be better on that part but not in the set of mind on changing daw as FLS has best workflow for me at least and am familiar with it so i am trying to only get my productions sound better to people in general and i think that changing daw ain't the solution for that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah definitely should make more exciting tracks by making enough modulations. Literally just checked http://www.musictheory.net/ once more and boy have i been in the dark for long on the fact how easy some basic chords are truly to actually know what they are rather than just making what sounds about good.. as in basic 3 key Major chord scale goes every fourth and seventh added from the starting note and Minor every third and seventh.. feel like an idiot.. should have checked earlier on from the moment i started up producing music and dreaming of being a good musician so that i could make music that people would enjoy while enjoying composing it. 

But about adding dynamics.. seriously i would appreciate if you knew any proper links to websites or have your own instructions on how i could truly master better. So far i have noticed that adding soundgoodizer does bring fatness and some brightness into the track, but it also tends to bring some amount of distortion to everything especially if i add too many of them. Also i have tried to dial down all the peaking but still i can't seem to get my compositions sound good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/20/2016 at 2:14 AM, ShadowRaz said:

So far i have noticed that adding soundgoodizer does bring fatness and some brightness into the track, but it also tends to bring some amount of distortion to everything especially if i add too many of them. Also i have tried to dial down all the peaking but still i can't seem to get my compositions sound good.

Yeah, I don't ever use Soundgoodizer because I don't think it sounds that good. Plus, it has four unmodifiable presets (except for how much of the effect is in effect), which inherently limits your capacity to adapt to multiple contexts. For instance, if you apply a specific distortion and compression algorithm to particular drum samples and it sounds good, different drum samples being treated with the same distortion and compression algorithm won't necessarily sound good.

Instead of using Soundgoodizer, I would suggest that you should practice distortion and compression techniques using other plugins that actually have tweakable settings, then A/B compare to see if you actually like the results or if you want to change the settings to get something better. Some people have trouble accomplishing what they intend when it comes to production because they picture it one way (perhaps as ideal results) and it turns out differently, and that may be one confusion here.

Since you're writing drumstep, I think these plugins can help:

- Fruity Blood Overdrive (dial in the edits SLOWLY; I think you can hold Ctrl and click-drag to turn knobs finely. That way, you can hear more of the intermediate changes in the sound and hone in on ones you might not hear had you not been turning the knobs so finely)

- endorphin (digitalfishphones), a dual-band compressor (treble+bass). I use that for my drums all the time, such as for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually my demo version of Ozone 6 just ended so gonna try to do my stuff without it thanks anyways, no way i can afford it knees deep in shit with money problems and as for pirating it.. meh.. and thank you timaeus222, just downloaded endorphin and tried fruity blood drive already, i really like the add color knob as it really does add color rather subtly, also listened to your Born from the Ashes, it's cool how soft the sounds are

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't give you much technical advice, but I really like it, or where it could go. I'm not a dubstep fan at all, but this combination of sounds is nice, quite relaxing. The only real complaint I have is the mixing, as you mentioned, because when the dubstep starts it sounds quite suppressed. Could do with being a little crisper.

By the way, a nice reference point might be Frank Klepacki's Grey Goo soundtrack if you haven't heard it already. He mixed orchestral and electronic, including some dubstep style stuff, that sounds quite brilliant.

Protect and Destroy

Eliminate

Bring the Hailstorm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey thank you man, really appreciate the compliment. Just trying to fix the same track now on few areas and send it as a demo but also new stuff under construction. I recently made an remake of Brig's single I'm in Love which was really good practice on growl/drone sound design and also on mixing and mastering areas:

 

I'm not like super heavy brutal dubstep enthusiastic either but still i like making growls and such basses on tracks because otherwise they tend to stick around on rather "boring" area sometimes or at least too ambient and repeating for too long, lacking the drop so to speak

Listened to the Grey Goo Soundtrack, really cool compositions, and basses are not that bad actually but that wobble he likes to design is rather cliche for my opinion. But yeah there are several types of dubsteps for people liking different kind of stuff.

Instrumental Core has awesome stuff also on dubstep and orchestral combination area, i would suggest if you haven't listened to him yet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trying to make something new on top of Feel It project, it's slightly easier because don't have to start everything from scratch as it was kind of an big project and also i can use some of the the same sounds and stuff. Not sure about that growl on the intro though, Verse is at the beginning and there ain't chorus or drop yet. Was planning on making something similar as in I'm in Love but still different.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds pretty cool. I like the opening. Not sure what kind of synth you're using for those 'growls' and whether its just vibrato you control or not, but if so I think it'd be nice to hear it flatten out and join the orchestral notes. So during that opening segment, rather than just having it as some kind of rhythm it could smooth into the strings and fade out, like some distant, calling, and slightly disturbing, voice.

Also for me, during the final verse, having those strings being cut off feels too much when there's already a synth doing the same thing. Maybe this is a genre staple that I just don't quite get, but I feel like there should be more a through line there... or perhaps removing some of the string notes to make it more simplified and kinda of just announce each beat would make it more dramatic, if that's the intended effect.

Not that I really know what I'm talking about but hopefully it sounds convincing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kind of get what you mean by that whereas the growl should kind of blend in more. Some sort of reverb echo after small fading on it's own before stopping the note perhaps, that particular track is on much better shape already as in the entire track. And the growl by the way, no vibrato at all, it's just my current style basic sound design on Serum which contains 2 different monster oscillators on A and B and mostly control them by merely one macro which modulates wavetable positions on both oscillators and also filter and levels and Bend+/- on other and sometimes FM/AM (from the other osc to the other) to the first osc. Sometimes i link even some EQ modulations into same automation clips but not always. Either separately or not at all, Effects i use depend so much on the sound designs, as in are they necessary or not so that they would sound at least somewhat cool.

All into one macro control makes things easier on playlist because otherwise it would be rather frustrating to control each one individually. I also use the same technique if i am using several sound designs like in I'm in Love remake, linking controllers into one automation clip as i can control my sound designs easier that way to work with each other as they are in several layers. For example 2 basic growls, one on Serum and other on Massive working together or one of either individually for those RRAUURROOAA-BOOOAA-EIOOHYVÄ-OOHYEAAHH (:D hard to describe) growl sounds and two slightly different designs on Massive for drones as it has performer which makes drone design easier than in serum which then requires automation clips. I noticed that for growls, vocoder sample modulation does not affect as much as i hoped, so usually i leave them totally out but not always.

Man i am still missing some really awesome orchestral libraries as i can't afford them. Hopefully i can soon enough get some updates/upgrades on software and hardware if i can get some cold hard cash from my work and then truly start working on music productions with better things. I just have no idea where i should send them as demos as in to Monstercat perhaps? Man do i suck at being social and stuff sometimes, like seriously i have no idea how i should "promote" my work or anything else for that matter at least sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, have to change my words compared to previous post that the growl on the intro was not monster oscillators but rather reesey mess and animal, i remembered totally different thing from other sound designs on Serum but otherwise basically the same thing with the modulations and stuff, anyways i sent the "finished" project to monstercat as a demo but they were not interested on it so i just took a quick sum up screen capture of the project and uploaded it to youtube so i could ask some advice on it what went wrong, well there were few EQ mistakes and stuff which i already corrected slightly but now i'm just wondering should i send it as a demo again when i have fixed the few things or more things or just start up with other stuff, here is the video:

So any advice? from anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so i posted the track already to my soundcloud: 

And already am working on other projects, just took a screen capture of two of latest ones i've worked on:

What do you think of them? any room for huge improvements? Well to slightly "advertise" myself, both of those are seriously unfinished so there are huge flaws and such still so not my best work. But yeah if there are any other sound designers here i would highly recommend Serum as one really good plugin to do such as it has so many possibilities. Basically everything can be made with Serum :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so, as i browsed Spinnin' Records website, i spotted an remix contest which was going on currently and i was interested to participate it. I literally just now, finished that particular long project and uploaded it to soundcloud if i were to get feedback on it and or notice something wrong in it and possibly change something and re-upload before i actually add it to contest as it should be as best as it could be at that moment. So here's the link:

Have any opinions/advice on any details about anything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have any real pointers for you (you're pretty good at this) but have serious respect for what you're doing (don't give up). Got any tips for the style of music that you're doing? Good luck and good day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The vocals could be more upfront. It's hard to hear them above the boomy bass, which is also too loud. You could try scooping the midrange on the bass and not boosting so much on the low-mids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ronald Poe: Thank you for the compliment, and no i will not give up because i enjoy it even still if i haven't directly "succeeded" in it per se as in for people truly liking my music and being able to sell my music for example. But those are just small goals apart from just practicing and having my own fun time. And well i'm not sure could i have any super good tips in the form of words (especially if i were to start explaining sound design this page would fill up with stuff most likely), at least i can say that if you for example want to make such music as in orchestral melodic dubstep drumstep combination stuff, it requires just practice with your favourite choice of DAW at first as in learning to use it and then afterwards getting your favourite plugins and libraries and also listening to others music as well for example listening epic orchestral from Two Steps From Hell, Varien, Hans Zimmer and such artists but then also Brostep, Dubstep, DnB, Drumstep from various artists of such genres (for example: Arkasia, Virtual Riot, Skrillex, Barely Alive, Spag Heddy, Au5). I recommend Nexus for some virtual instruments (the guitar lead for example and my pianos are always from it) but especially stuff from Native Instruments such as Action Strings and Action Strikes and so on. Also there are cool amount of stuff in Symphobia 2. And then my favourite Growl and lead design plugin is Serum but Drone design (and some effects and leads) on Massive. Some arps and leads are easier to make on Sylenth1. But this all goes into personal preferences i guess.

 

timaeus222: Yeah changed that as BETA version since i already noticed few huge mistakes before such as the growl especially on the second verse was kind of awful. Been trying to dial basically everything down on mixer and then taking out the compression on master channel ever so slightly. Also i already did in fact try to get the vocals more strong compared to the music and also all the separate music parts to be more noticeable still. Made the "outro" growl bass (after the sword sound effect) more crunchy and HF heavy and changed some notes on guitar lead and also tried to EQ and mix the volume of it more and still working on the same parts wobble design and other minor details still haven't gotten the verse growl bass design even right. Lot's of stuff to fix on it compared to that one yeah. Have to try to fix the bass stuff up too, it's hard to hear the bass on my DT880 headphones or on that 3" subwoofer i have under my table. Haven't been able to test it in my car (in which i have 1000W 12" Ground Zero Radioactive sub) because of an brake problem which makes me want to avoid all extra driving around as it is dangerous for both me and for others if i can't brake properly and i don't want to disturb anyone near here by playing it out loud on the parking lot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been trying to work on more melodic stuff as i do enjoy some good melodic dubstep (also with female vocals) but the melody sound designs are hard to make sound professional, I have started on using Serum for most of my sound designs and for super saw melodies it's like saw waveforms usually on both oscillators and then 16 voices on unison for both and then detuning them quite a lot, depending on what type of sound i'm searching for, and sometimes i tend to put square wave for other oscillator as it does bring rather more 'beep' type of retroish style to it. I'm finding a lot more easier to build melodies still with violins for some reason so they tend to fall back into orchestral dubstep category more, which would be my main style to produce as i enjoy it the most. (Violins and i have gotten really interested on virtual guitars also and brasses and drums.. and growl/drone designs.. well basically everything) But still some type of melodic dubstep is much more ambient than orchestral when listening to the tracks that pro producers have made or also while producing there is more ambient feeling (although while producing, nerves are at the peak as nothing sounds exactly like i would want them to sound and i'm in an some kind of hurry.. gotta work on that) Youtube is filled with several hour mixes of such music btw, good stuff to listen

Still one of the biggest problems is finding vocals.. Like seriously, how do the producers find acapellas or stems of good female vocals around which the music could be made?  I have merely 2 female vocals right now: Ellie Goulding - Burn and Katelyn Tarver - You. Do people just roam around websites with such search terms like female standalone vocals, stems, acapellas and then download them? Or are there specific sites which have several 'vocals only' files? Or do they first search some female singers and then search those individually if there are only vocal files somewhere? Or do they some how muzzle the music from tracks as some acapellas are made on youtube? (i have found Muse track acapellas for example and Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody, and once i made more music around the original music (Adele - Hello)) 

Anyone have any suggestions though for good vocals? Individual songs or several, anything goes as long as it would sound somewhat good

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sooo.. been working on a EP, i really do like making them violin melodies and orchestral drums etc

What y'all think of this "preview"

And also what about this really small clip on what i have worked on tonight and posted on my instagram:

Orchestral is super fun music to compose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok so, made dailymotion account since i don't want to fill out my youtube with unnecessary videos as i have basically posted small clips of my small clip productions a lot lately, just wanted to ask which would be better tempo for this remix, 90bpm or 180bpm:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x43dhc2

Note. it is like seriously in the first phase as i started making it just today, for example the chorus, i just used the same sound designs i designed for 'Whatever' so far, am not sure should i make more chord modulations or better or something also all and all for the entire song etc.. for 180bpm drumstep version i could make more easily second faster DnB beat (as there is already but did not show it on the video) but chorus structure should be different, then on 90bpm, chorus is easier to make as such dubsteppy one.. but it is kind of an slow tempo to work with.. although i like an slow tempo myself. But still..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Made a tutorial about composing orchestral hits via Action Strikes (Native Instruments)

I think this old dying thread of mine would be the best place for me to upload it for you folks too, if it were to help anyone. Here it is:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this