Touhou medely

[SplinterOfChaos]

So I've been working on this way too long and I don't know if OCRemix is the right place to publish it, but I figured I'd at least try. Also, I read the forum guidelines, but sorry if I'm doing something wrong. I haven't been here in over ten years.

The song (references below): 

 

And, here are the references for the songs. I tried to make sure that the videos are timestamped so the link takes you to which part of the song I reference. 

0-04: 
TH08 Touhou Eiyashou ~ Imperishable Night - 14 - Sennen Gensoukyou ~ History of the Moon (https://youtu.be/k81RsPBCf-k?si=afCWg86eEdicVcIp)

04-13: 
TH08 Touhou Eiyashou ~ Imperishable Night - 12 - Kyouki no Hitomi ~ Invisible Full Moon
( https://youtu.be/AqrAZz4BHuY?si=YNA5FJZIxkZSObhN&t=64 )

13-21:
Touhou 6 - Flandre Scarlet's Theme - U.N. Owen was her? (Extra Boss) ( https://youtu.be/mokupSMH9_Y?si=9Os7IVwuc51utFQM&t=30 )

21-45:
 TH08 Touhou Eiyashou ~ Imperishable Night - 10 - Koi-iro Master Spark ( https://youtu.be/5aglNoWCKg4?si=K809QfgeNH_ifqtJ&t=22 )

45-53:
Touhou 6 - Sakuya Izayoi's Theme - Lunar Clock ~ Luna Dial (Boss 5) ( https://youtu.be/mMQ_0hHxQa0?si=DC6ArR05ReXOUff6&t=42 )
and
TH08 Touhou Eiyashou ~ Imperishable Night - 11 - Cinderella Cage ~ Kagome-Kagome ( https://youtu.be/We6oz7rOwg4?si=tvOFOinnnYzcYXD0&t=73 )

53-69:
[Update: better reference] Touhou 1: 東方怪奇談 ~ Strange Oriental Discourse (https://youtu.be/B_PUx3Teh60?si=2FvDwMk_27AaeX4i&t=19)
and
Touhou 6 - Cirno's Theme - Beloved Tomboyish Girl (Boss 2) https://youtu.be/zWss-16N4tg?si=-WZzB01BNxD633kZ&t=32

69-85:
Touhou 7 - Alice Margatroid's Theme - Doll Judgment ~ The girl who played with people's shapes ( https://youtu.be/36KZegOsqZs?si=PaWtt9amAVimP4q6&t=51 )

83-101:
TH08 Touhou Eiyashou ~ Imperishable Night - 15 - Taketori Hishou ~ Lunatic Princess ( https://youtu.be/UJaD-nxAFDM?si=B2Ci0TrdMnzFh8P5&t=15 )
at the same time as, starting at 85 until 93:
Touhou 6 - Flandre Scarlet's Theme - U.N. Owen was her? (Extra Boss) ( https://youtu.be/mokupSMH9_Y?si=9Os7IVwuc51utFQM&t=30 )

101-109:
Touhou 9: Flowering Night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bT-4FSDymo&list=PLJL0SL186iqzQq2o7Ss4pCYyL37JeqSEb&index=215

109-end: 
Touhou 6 - Scarlet Beyond a Crimson Dream (Menu) ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufIfGmQndJA&list=PLJL0SL186iqzQq2o7Ss4pCYyL37JeqSEb&index=107 )
or
TH08 Touhou Eiyashou ~ Imperishable Night - 1 - Eiyashou ~ Eastern Night ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6PEv3SWMB0&list=PLJL0SL186iqzQq2o7Ss4pCYyL37JeqSEb&index=191 )

 

I have some worries:

• Low quality instruments (I know nothing about how to tweak them)
• Too much to my individual tastes.
• Repetitive percussions 
• Sticks to "Koi-iro Master Spark" for too long, but also might not be faithful enough for the first half.
• Too loud and/or fast.
• Some of the transitions maybe don't feel as natural as they could.

Despite my worries, I feel I've gotten it about as good as I can.

Thanks for your time.

[SplinterOfChaos]

I guess if there are no comments, I'll put this in "ready for review" state. 

[Ronald Poe]

Hi, I've been meaning to respond for a few days but haven't gotten around to it yet. I'm a big Touhou fan and love Zun's music. I find the arrangement to be rather ambitious and pretty solid in my opinion. I feel the many themes are glued together well enough that it almost sounds like one individual piece. Do you mind telling us some of the reasons behind the theme choices because the only common theme is Touhou 6-9.

However there seems to be a big issue with the remix that would get it rejected, the samples are rather poor and a bit grating (sounding like a mediocre midi font). With better samples or at least mixing, I could see this passing. Then again, I've never gotten a remix on the site and am not a judge (my ears aren't even that good) ...

[SplinterOfChaos]

8 hours ago, Ronald Poe said:

 Do you mind telling us some of the reasons behind the theme choices because the only common theme is Touhou 6-9.

For the most part, I don't really know. I hadn't listened to Touhou in a very long time and I started learning Japanese this year and I remembered the Touhou meme videos I used to watch in highschool that curled up in my mind. I just wrote whatever I could remember from that time, writing down whatever I could fit in. I got writer's block many times while writing this song, struggling to think of what song would make a good continuation and I'd like to say I considered the song's overall narrative [1], but I don't know if that's true or not. I just wanted my friends who'd never listened to Touhou music before to hear all these interesting melodies for the first time.

This is maybe a bit pretentious but the pillow mint at the end [2] was more intentional. It's played in the menu so of coarse it's one of the first songs I heard in game so it's kind of "ending where it started," but also not knowing what I was getting myself into. The resolution at the end represents my hope that I have in some small way paid off a portion of what I owe to the series, thus the "Burdon" part of the title.

Urf, it feels silly, self-important, and uncomfortable to discuss such things, but I felt anything less would be a dismissive answer to a legitimate question.

[1] By narrative, I mean mood, feel, and the transitions between scenes; I don't know if "narrative" conveys that thought outside my own head.

[2] Pillow mint: I don't know if there's a word for it by I call it a pillow mint because it's like the complimentary mint you get when you stay at a nicer hotel sometimes. I looked up the etymology for "complimentary" one day and found out it originally meant "to complete".

 

8 hours ago, Ronald Poe said:

the samples are rather poor and a bit grating (sounding like a mediocre midi font). With better samples or at least mixing, I could see this passing. 

Yeah, I'm worried about that. We'll see, I guess.

Edited October 16, 2023 by SplinterOfChaos

[Hemophiliac]

First off, thank you for formatting your post in the way that you did, it's very helpful to include the sources and timestamps like that.

On to your bullet points, I'd like to talk about those.

On 10/11/2023 at 5:24 AM, SplinterOfChaos said:

I have some worries:

• Low quality instruments (I know nothing about how to tweak them)
• Too much to my individual tastes.
• Repetitive percussions 
• Sticks to "Koi-iro Master Spark" for too long, but also might not be faithful enough for the first half.
• Too loud and/or fast.
• Some of the transitions maybe don't feel as natural as they could.

Despite my worries, I feel I've gotten it about as good as I can.

You're asking yourself the right questions, in the way to help be self-critical.  Being self-critical is a very difficult skill to develop.  So, asking these questions and thinking in this manner is a good place to start.

On the first point, low quality instruments.  You are correct, they are very low quality and sound very much like basic MIDI.  This is most apparent in the guitars.  Guitars are among the most difficult instrument to make sound realistic, especially when starting with basic sounds.  The only things I could recommend would be to invest in some quality guitar samples (Impact Soundworks comes to mind on that, IE Shreddage), or search for a guitar player willing to work with you and record the parts.

"Too much to my individual tastes".  I'm not sure what you mean by this.  Do you mean that your arrangement won't be liked by others because it's in your own style?  Nonsense!  Besides, you should be writing for yourself, and not for others (Unless you're getting paid to do it! :P)  Don't worry about what others think, do it because it is fun to you or brings you joy.

As far as the percussion, I can barely make it out because it's much quieter then everything else in the mix.  If you think that it's repetitive, it likely is.  Trust your instincts.

Koi-iro Master Spark is only used for 24 of 162 seconds.  I don't know how to call that too long, you really bounce from source to source so quickly that the listener is barely orienting themselves to a new section before it changes again.

Look for other tracks/remixes/songs that you want your work to sound like, and try to emulate that.  Listen to them side-by-side and note the differences, see what you can change to make your work sound more like the other ones.  Experiment, and try new things.  It is possible to learn and improve, it does take time and practice though.

General thoughts on the track itself:

0:36 sounds like it may be a key change, and that change itself is not prepared so it feels sudden when it happens.  This is in the source for Koi-iro Master Spark, maybe best not to use that part of the track due to the direct and sudden key change?  Throughout the track there's a lot of muddiness and general imbalance of levels between the parts.  I can't really make out what the bass is doing, and the drums are buried most of the time.  The guitar parts and organ-like sound dominate most of the track.  Let them work together to create cohesion and support between all parts.

Generally in medleys the represented ideas usually are developed and not just hopped on for brief moments.  With how quickly each source is visited in this, I get the impression of disjointedness rather then cohesion.  I'd really suggest taking a step back and evaluating what you're going for and do that comparison to other tracks to get the production to a place where it needs to be, then go wild with the arrangement and making medleys.

[Hemophiliac]

[This is an automatically generated message]

I've reviewed your remix and have returned it to Work-in-Progress status, indicating that I think there are some things you still need to work on. After you work on your track and feel that it's ready for submission to OCR, please change the prefix back to Ready for Review and someone will review it again. Good luck!

[Ronald Poe]

Hi, I decided to follow this thread for a couple personal reasons. I think OCRemix needs more Touhou remixes on the site (given there's a large fandom just for the games' music and remixing it, there's a shocking lack of them here). I also feel this arrangement is flawed with bad samples and many of the points made by Hemophiliac are pretty valid. I was right about the source choices being questionable (not much connecting them) but the arrangement just needs more focus. However I wouldn't give up on this piece yet because I feel it has a lot of potential and could potentially be great if refined. Don't give up, man.

Edited April 19 by pixelseph