Twisted Systerz, Mara and Nara's Theme Remix

[Audiomancer]

Ok, so I think I got the muddiness fixed at least some, I changed the snare a bit, I changed one of the leads, hope it's more interesting. I also brought stuff closer to center. The distortion thing you heard was a pluck bass, I changed that also. The previous version I only sidechained the lower frequencies of the bass, this time I did a normal sidechain.

11-24 edit Tried to fix last things mentioned. remix below, also in last post of thread

12-12 edit Latest attempt. Tried a few different things, Different bass, different sidechaining techniques, etc.

12-19 edit below.

 

Thanks for feedback ahead of time!

ReMix

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vvknm1GCUqjw4PIc5H6z6KUwQ5liIMkc/view?usp=drivesdk

Original

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Audiomancer

[Hemophiliac]

I'm glad you didn't abandon this and decided to rework it with newer sounds.  The challenge is getting the balance to work now.  The leads are what the listener is trying to follow, the low end feels too big compared to the leads.

Nice beefy drums, however they are over compressed and I'm hearing some pumping as well.  Sounds like the kick and the bass might be fighting with each other.

Drums may feel like that they have too much reverb, getting some reverb wash from the snare.

All of those above factors are contributing to low-end muddiness, see what you can do to clean it up.

I do like the call and response of the arrangement during 0:17-0:33, 0:43-0:56, and 1:56-2:09 however the panning on the leads is too wide, I'd recommend to bring them closer to center (Just try that with most everything, not just leads).  It doesn't take much panning to have a positive effect on freeing up space.  When you get really wide it can be disorienting unless it's very balanced. Also I'm not liking the new synth leads, they do feel basic and much older than the other parts used in the track.  IIRC This was an issue the judges had previously.

Nice resonant filter sweeps 0:33-0:40 and 0:58-1:13

Noticed something super subtle at 0:34 that may be clipping or some other unintended distortion coming though.  Check it out and see if you can see anything there.

tl;dr: clean up low end mud, sophisticate the leads, and balance the parts so leads are the focus.

[Hemophiliac]

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I've reviewed your remix and have returned it to Work-in-Progress status, indicating that I think there are some things you still need to work on. After you work on your track and feel that it's ready for submission to OCR, please change the prefix back to Ready for Review and someone will review it again. Good luck!

[Audiomancer]

Latest attempt in original post.

[Hemophiliac]

Some problems fixed, some new ones created.

The centering definitely helped, and i'm not hearing the pumping anymore!  I do like the new lead that starts at 0:16, but still not a huge fan of the one that it alternates with starting at 0:20.  I like the new ending.  It really helps wrap up the piece and doesn't just feel like "We're done" suddenly anymore.  Good job.  Also all new melodic embellishment that was added is great.

At 0:59 the filter sweep clips or has distortion.

At 0:25 there's a random cymbal-like hit panned hard left that doesn't feel like it's intentional.  Accidental midi note placed into the piano roll and didn't notice it?  I've definitely done that before XD
Also the cymbals/hats are too loud, they are standing out quite a lot.  I think they are the cause of the reason for 5k+ Hz being particularly hot in the mix.

To me, 1:25-2:10 sounds way cleaner than the first time we hear the A section (0:02-0:34).  I'm wondering if it's because the guitar is filling the low-end space a lot, because it's not present during 1:25-2:10.

Still struggling with the bass and the kick, both sound like they are occupying the exact same space.  Especially since there's a lot of sub frequencies going on between 42-98Hz.  I think this range is likely a large cause of the muddiness.

[Hemophiliac]

[This is an automatically generated message]

I've reviewed your remix and have returned it to Work-in-Progress status, indicating that I think there are some things you still need to work on. After you work on your track and feel that it's ready for submission to OCR, please change the prefix back to Ready for Review and someone will review it again. Good luck!

[Audiomancer]

Latest Attempt:)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Hc0q3PkEXtSO8RgV1hgy5z5frtrNH3fH/view?usp=sharing

[Hemophiliac]

Ok, I think you went too far in the other direction now.  Though, that is a good thing!  You got the low end much much cleaner.  I can't tell exactly what you did to clean it up, but I think you should bring back some of that low end to the bass and kick so that it helps the track stay beefy (Not as much as the previous version though).  I'm glad you went as far as you did because now you know how far both extremes are.  Sometimes you gotta push it to find out where the right spot is!

I think that the cleaning up you did make the lead (the FM rhodes/bell-type sound) in the first half feel louder than it is, or they just are louder than before...either way they seem louder than they should be now.

Still clipping at 0:59.  Also at 0:34 there's a tiny little blip on the left side that sounds clipping-like or maybe an artifact of something.

Major props again for not giving up on this and continuing to refine it.

[Hemophiliac]

[This is an automatically generated message]

I've reviewed your remix and have returned it to Work-in-Progress status, indicating that I think there are some things you still need to work on. After you work on your track and feel that it's ready for submission to OCR, please change the prefix back to Ready for Review and someone will review it again. Good luck!

[Audiomancer]

Latest (12-12) attempt.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yv_iEmnKMhXeF3hhY0JYd3MRu34MRyDM/view?usp=sharing

Different drums and bass, adjustments to some instruments, and different sidechaining technique used:)

[timaeus222]

Hey

Here's my take on this with a fresh listen, just so you have someone else on this as well. In a short summary:

• Robotic intensities and rhythm going on in the leads (important!)
• Add transitions to smooth out connecting sections (important!)
• EQ the pads midrange down a bit to make room for the leads to be heard after you lower their volume too, so that the overcompression is lessened.
  (not crucial but would be nice to fix)

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ARRANGEMENT / SEQUENCING

As a general time, when you write parts for instruments that are seen in the real world, you'll want them to have velocities (playing intensities) that vary, so that they resemble human playing.

Currently:

• The bells at 0:03 (probably the same ones at 0:33) are noticeably rigid because the intensities are the same all the way through
• The bell-like lead at 0:27, 1:13, etc is also the same way. It's especially noticeable at 1:13 because there's pretty much nothing hiding it.
• The plucky synth at 1:24, same thing with that one. Also, since it's a lead, it would help spatially, as a rule of thumb, to make it mono instead of stereo. It will give room for the bells and pads to breathe.

So what you should do is imagine yourself playing the part on a piano, and vary the intensities (velocities) accordingly. Or, if you don't know how to play piano, then some rules of thumb to make it more human are that ascending and descending sequences tend to get louder, and every other note tends to be slightly quieter than the note to its immediate left.

To give you something for ear training, here are 3 ways NOT to write the following piano snippet:

https://app.box.com/s/pmwybgad4who5679p9xvuxdnnmqshas5 - Robotic rhythm and intensities

https://app.box.com/s/lr9nxha1zbg5vfcxufqqvuiz9vjnliyu - Robotic rhythm only, with human intensities

https://app.box.com/s/ndt9vz26mjhdul6sreqgkvf6eqlp2qfy - Robotic intensities only, with human rhythm

This is the ideal result you want to get:

https://app.box.com/s/jjapuupib9zfypwoew1ecr31nlq8siw4 - Fully humanized

This feedback applies to other instruments in the remix as well, not just those bells, but those are what I picked for examples.

One other note is to add transitions, or smooth any out, between major sections to smooth out the structure. An example is at 0:56, there could be a reverse cymbal with reverb to connect you to the lower-dynamic section after. Another example is 1:23, which you could argue has a transition, but it's clunky and I would suggest something smoother like a reverse noise fall or something of that sort, while keeping the descending bass line there. Yet another example is 2:09, which sounds like it should come close to the ending, hence a reverse cymbal there would more-clearly indicate it.

PRODUCTION / MIXING

• At 2:09 and on, the leads can be more tame, to go with the bass drone. As it stands, they stick out, especially the trance synth at 2:12 which is... not calm.
• It would help if the pads have the midrange frequencies EQed down (maybe 2-3 dB), and that will give you the freedom to lower the volume of the lead sounds a bit. That will then decrease the overcompression that is going on right now.

Other than those bits, I think the production, albeit fairly rough, is not that bad. There isn't much low midrange muddiness going on which is nice, and I can hear everything I need to hear.

---

Hope that helps!

Edited December 14, 2023 by timaeus222

[Audiomancer]

12-19-2023 version below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vvknm1GCUqjw4PIc5H6z6KUwQ5liIMkc/view?usp=drivesdk

 

Thanks for that very detailed feedback, timaeus222! I tried to incorporate all of what you suggested here. Also thought it could use some more low end cleaning, so I did some more of that. Thanks!