thomas_kresge Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 I've started a personal project of orchestrated all the music from Sonic the Hedgehog 1, 2, 3, and Sonic & Knuckles. I've finished the first two songs and now I'd like to here the opinion of the people at OCRemix. Just to clarify, I'm looking more for comments on the creativeness or effectiveness of orchestrating, as opposed to the actual quality of the sequence, i.e. how super-realistic it sounds. I realize that it probably wouldn't get excepted at OCRemix anyways due to a lack of perfect realism that sequencers obtain; just critique on how good it would sound if an actual orchestra played the song. My goal is more for personal enjoyment (and hopefully actually getting these orchestrated at some point) rather than getting them accepted as remixes, since most of the songs in the project haven't been really "remixed" all that much. Anyways, here are the two songs. I've done a lot more refining on the second song, Water Zones, so the first song, Mystic Cave, hasn't quite received a lot of the tweaks yet. The first song is the Mystic Cave theme from StH2, and the second song is medley including the Labyrinth theme (StH) and the Hydrocity theme (StH3), with the drowning jingle thrown in the middle. Mystic Cave Water Zones I use Garriton Personal Orchestra with Sibelius to obtain these arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_kresge Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 Is anyone going to respond or was all this asking in vain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuitarHero Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 yeah like you said these songs arent really remixes. but I really enjoyed it because it gave the origional feel of the song. if you can get it to have more of a "full sound" it would sound awsome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legendary Zoltan Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Those sounded pretty cool. They can't really become OC Remixes because there's no arrangement aspect, but it definitely sounds cool. I'd like to hear those orchestrations sounding heavier or maybe even just louder, myself. . . Wait a minute, I just said all the same stuff that guitarhero said! God damn it! Nice orchestrations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizyr Posted September 27, 2007 Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ok, I'm no professional, so take that into account for my comments... First, Mystic Cave... It's okay. I don't hear anything that stands out as bad choice in arrangement or instrumentation at all. But, it doesn't sound none too interesting--more like background music that you'd almost tune out, even if played by a live orchestra. Though bear in mind though that I might be a bit biased, as I'm not that fond of the Mystic Cave theme to begin with. Second, Water Zones... The first part is good--mellow and all, so I like how that goes. But, I really think you should completely drop the 'drowning' theme at 1:00~1:23. It's too stark a contrast to both the first (Labyrinth) and second (Hydrocity) themes. Literally, it does sound like it's thrown in arbitrarily, and going from a really good theme, to a really irritating 20-seconds, then back to another really good theme, ends up detracting from the entire song. As for the Hydrocity part of it... Overall I think it sounds great--then again my bias might be going the other way as this was one of my favorite themes from Sonic 3. I'm not sure about some of the instrumentation, though. The brass (?) that comes in at 2:02, were you going for muted trumpet or something? I think something a little less high-pitched would be better (brass or no), alto/tenor sax, e.g.. Also... what effect are you going for with the 'falling' notes (again, not an expert, so I'm unsure on terminology)--like what comes in at the start and end of Hydrocity (exactly at 1:27 & 3:23)? It sounds odd, but I can't tell if that's because of the effect you're after, or simply the actual quality of the MP3. KF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_kresge Posted September 27, 2007 Author Share Posted September 27, 2007 Thanks for the comments so far! Kizyr, I understand what you're saying about the drowning theme thrown in. Personally, I like it. But thanks for the thought. It gets me thinking... also, the fall at the end of Water Zones is supposed the effect someone would play when they see a note with a glissando line dropping off the staff with no specific note to fall to. I think it's a matter of me not being able to get very good sound for the effect. @ CHIPP and GuitarHero, what do you mean by heavier or bigger? CHIPP pointed out that maybe it needs to be louder, so could the MP3 sample just be too quiet, because I can easily fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuitarHero Posted September 28, 2007 Share Posted September 28, 2007 its not just about how loud it is though it does need to be louder. something about it doesnt have much power. just a personal opinion but its too soft for my taste. its hard to explain... I really like the sonic 3 water zone though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_kresge Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 I hope I'm not sounding pushy or whiny by wanting more comments. I need all the help I can get. Or do so many people think that it sounds that bad? Anyways, I just finished the third song. This one includes the Hill Top music (StH2) and the Mushroom Hill music (S&K). Mushroom Hill Top Over at the vgmusic.com forums these arrangements weren't welcomed as heartily as there here. Although I'm open to their opinions. Somebody there mentioned that the songs had balance issues, particularly among the low brass, and that some of the trombone and tuba parts were written sloppily. Does any one else feel this way, and if so, can you expand what all this means and specific parts where you notice it the most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sil Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Over at the vgmusic.com forums these arrangements weren't welcomed as heartily as there here. Although I'm open to their opinions. You'll find that orchestral arrangements tend to attract heavy criticism stemming from opinion. It's a genre prone to subjectivity because it is a field of expertise with no experts, that is, experts that are hanging around on web forums talking about game music. I wouldn't call anyone around here including myself an "expert" on orchestration because we don’t have the proper credentials and experience. In the end, the only kind of criticism you're going to get is "does it sound good? Yes/No" and that's what my opinions are mostly concerned with as well. But anyway, whoever said your low brass needs work is correct. In fact, your bass lines all throughout seem unrealized, brass or no brass, but it's an understandable oversight if you're just starting out at this whole orchestra thing. A good way to practice is to figure out what your bass line is from beginning to end and have these instruments all play it in unison or one octave apart: bassoon, trombone (in octaves), tuba, cellos, double basses. At forte moments you add timpani, and at piano moments you take away the brass. I'm guessing if I looked at your orchestration I'd see a distinct lack of cello and double bass writing, especially considering how often they play in octaves. And in general, if you want those low brass lines to stand out more, double them with the cellos and basses and bassoon. Use staccatos or pizzicatos if you must. You need a strong bass line, because this is game music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chernabogue Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 Really, very good arrangements ! I visited Garritan Orchestral Libraries and I had just a question : did you buy the Personal Orchestral ? Or have you a link to download it ? (because it's soooo cool !!) However, good job !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_kresge Posted October 2, 2007 Author Share Posted October 2, 2007 Really, very good arrangements ! I visited Garritan Orchestral Libraries and I had just a question : did you buy the Personal Orchestral ? Or have you a link to download it ? (because it's soooo cool !!) However, good job !! I had to buy it. My personally copy was one integrated directly with Sibelius, but now you don't actually need that since Sib. 5 now has a VST plug-in. If you think Garritan sounds good, you should like at EastWest Symphonic Orchestrator. If didn't tell you, you would probably have no way to tell it apart from a real orchestra. Of course, that's only if you really have the cash to afford that. Thanks for the support and comments from everyone! And I'll really look at some of my bass parts more closely to make sure everything is well optimized to sounds perfect if a real orchestra were to play it. The fourth song is almost about half way done (although it doesn't quite feel halfway). I'm posting right now because I'm hoping someone might be able to give me some advice on anything to help improve it early on. Race Results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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