Imitation is the highest form of flattery

[Harmony]

original

imitation

As and exercise for myself, I’ve been trying to recreate a simple loop from the song “Stone Cold” performed by Anthony Hamilton on the American Gangster soundtrack. I’ve been working on it for a little while now, and although I know the recreation isn’t perfect, I’m having trouble identifying exactly what the differences are. Yeah I’m using different instruments, but I think I can get closer than what I have now. Listening to it for too long has killed my objectivity, so I think a fresh pair of ears could really help out.

Although I tried to get the notes and instruments right, I’m not as concerned with their exact imitation as I am with the exact imitation of their actual sound. At this point, it sounds to me like the EQ is wrong on my imitation, but where and by how much? What can I do to get my snare to sound a little more like the original? What is that sound that comes in at 0:00.800? It sounds like something is playing F3 then A3, but I can’t tell what instrument. Is it just the resonating congas? So many questions, looking for any answers.

If you’d like to play along, it helps to loop them. Tempo is 116 BPM

[po!]

this sounds like a classic old skool funk band setup. all i hear are drums, bass, organ, wah wah guitar, and a few bongo hits. i have no idea where you hear congas.. i think you're referring to the wah guitar that does a slow wah

if you're trying to get the exact sound... that will be really tough, especially with the drums. you could probably find a better organ though.. there's always tons of organ patches

[Harmony]

We're probably hearing the same thing with the bongos/congas. There's obviously a slap towards the middle of the loop, but the other hand percussion sounds too low in pitch to be a bongo to me. Sounds like a single medium sized conga to me, but I could see it being a really loosly tuned bongo.

Yeah, I worked pretty hard layering 4 cheap organ patches and applying some fast modulation to get what you hear. I agree that it could be better, but as many organ patches as there are out there, I primarily see tons of pipe organs and reed organs; nothing that sounds good for funk.

[SnappleMan]

That's why I imitate your dad by fucking your mom once a week.

[analoq]

the F3 A3 instrument sounds like a softly played rhodes to me. perhaps thru a wah or phaser.. something it biting off the top end.

for the drums, maybe zircon would have some advice. I'd try running them thru izotope vinyl to get that grit. or just sample hits off similar funk loops?

good effort regardless, this is precisely the sort of thing I do to discipline my technique.

cheers.

[Palpable]

Nice match, I don't think I could get it so close. The organ in the original sounds like it has a different note on top of the chord: a B, then an A. Your loop also sounds brighter so maybe take the entire thing down on the highs? Those old school loops are pretty warm.

[po!]

ok since i got home i've been able to listen to this on better speakers...

the organ has got to be a Hammond B3.. it's basically THE organ found in jazz/funk/gospel. check out this clip:

the beginning is all talk.. just start watching around 3:00, he plays a very similar sound

edit: maybe this one sounds closer..

also it sounds like your organ chords are up an inversion. i hear the top notes as B A, instead of D C

your drums sound too compressed and the attack is too slow. you can hear the snare rattle.. but the original snare is tighter and snappier. nothing you can do other than to keep looking for the right samples...

btw this song really reminds me of The Meters.. check out their stuff for similar funk.. and maybe you can sample their drums too haha

[Harmony]

the F3 A3 instrument sounds like a softly played rhodes to me. perhaps thru a wah or phaser.. something it biting off the top end.

I tried a vibraphone at one time that seemed to be an ok match, but youre right, I'll try a nice soft rhodes with a good amount of reverb and low pass filtering. That'd fit within a typical 60's funk setup. The reason I though that the F3 A3 might be just some resonant frequencies is that they are the only things that have noticeable reverb on them. If they truly were an instrument, why wouldn't the original producers make them dry like everything else?

for the drums, maybe zircon would have some advice. I'd try running them thru izotope vinyl to get that grit. or just sample hits off similar funk loops?

One of these days I'm going to get vinyl. For now the only grit is applied by a couple of instances of dominion, and SONAR's nobody-ever-uses-it analog tape sim. There was an amp sim in there at one point but it was a little too gritty I think. Also, I tried to keep in mind that some of that lo-fi grittiness in the original comes from the compressed audio that I ripped the loop from, so I really don't want to try to emulate that.

good effort regardless, this is precisely the sort of thing I do to discipline my technique.

Thanks. Yeah I used to do this sort of thing a lot and it's been really helpful for forcing me to think differently and really apply my limited resources in creative ways. For the compliment and suggestions, I shall send you a Facebook friend request +1

The organ in the original sounds like it has a different note on top of the chord: a B, then an A. Your loop also sounds brighter so maybe take the entire thing down on the highs? Those old school loops are pretty warm.

Yeah, the B and A are in there, but I toned them down because I thought the bottom D and C sounded more dominant in the original. Maybe I went a little too far. The highs on the master EQ have given me tons of problems. If I knock the master highs down, the snare and hi-hats sound weak. If I then brighten them back up, they usually end up sounding too loud. etc etc. But I'll continue to tweek, thanks for the suggestions.

EDIT: Oh thanks for the B3 tip po! I didn't know about the bell underneath the sounds from the standard drawbars. That really gives the organ a nice bite that mine is lacking. I've also gotta slow down my modulation to better simulate the rotary tonewheel effect.

The drums are ns7-free which are recorded with a really thick snare sound; about as far from snappy as possible. I've got a dominion plugin and a gate on the snare specifically to sharpen the attack and shorten the release. Still not enough though I guess. I might just have to bite the bullet and swap out snare samples.

Anyone have any thoughts on the hi-hats and kick?

[zircon]

Your snare is more resonant and ringy than the original, which sounds more like a more highly tuned, 'deadened' snare common to funk music. Your hats are too defined and slightly too high pitched in comparison, probably due to the lesser audio fidelity of the original.

Honestly in my experience it's better to just get the right samples than try to futz around for hours with one that just won't work. The Goldbaby set would be great for this kind of thing, I'd imagine. As it's all re-sampled at 12 bits through an MPC (or was it 10?) by nature it's gonna sound closer to the lo-fi original recording.

The kick.. that's a tough one... it lacks a lot of low freqs, and it has a decent amount of air, but it's definitely more of a dead 'thwap' rather than something with a rounded body. This is more a matter of just getting the right sample.

Sorry I can't really be more helpful. Again, speaking as someone who loves the old school drum sound... I find the only way to really GET it is to get samples of it!! Processing modern samples is never the same.