Liontamer

Well, I had asked for a 4th vote here specifically to address the arrangement concerns I had in my own, basically that there was too little arrangement of a very simple/minimal source tune, and that most of the material here was original writing that didn't work with the source. Unfortunately though, it's apparently too much to ask now, so I'm going to close the vote rather than delay the decision any longer. Sorry to weed, who, as a friend and a former judge, I hope doesn't feel any disrepsect over the delay or the decision.

Don't edit the title of the thread with LOLing when I'm trying to make it clear the show is ending.

http://www.zophar.net/gym/rshinobi.rar - "The Shinobi" I'm basically just chiming in to echo Gray's comments. Though I can see why it wasn't exactly a straight NO Override, you can basically tell this was a rip that was then given some legitimate reworking in the attempt to change it up enough, so I'll verify the N.O. But yeah, I thought the percussion was pretty admirable, but work on changing the structure more and really giving that an overhaul; F around with the tempo, the melody, anything to more dramatically and overtly change the feel. The new instrumentation and the original writing on top of the source tune were good ideas, but I'd argue that if you ever wanted to resubmit this, it would require a lot more effort given to reworking the actual structure of the source tune.

First things first, VGF81 is postponed until a new fan for my laptop is purchased. The old one's equilibrium got F'ed up (no, it wasn't dust) and only spins half as fast as it should, so it buzzes loudly and doesn't keep the CPU cool enough. New one should arrive sometime next week, and there will be a make-up show mix week, before hopefully returning to Saturdays the following Saturday, 3/11. In other news, I'll be moving in April and the show as we know it will be over. As in completely over. Ironically enough, April 1st is a Saturday, which looks like a perfect April Fool's joke, but in all likelihood the show will be finished by then and there's no need for a joke. Rather poor timing, as I'd prefer not to have anyone think this is some sort of setup (especially one that'll have no payoff, frankly). If I won't be leaving by 4/1, then I'll maybe do a show. Depending on how soon I move, there will be anywhere from 2 to 4 shows remaining, hopefully including time for me to do a final episode including a favorite track from each episode since #61. I would have liked to have ended the show on a fanicer number like 85, or even my arbitrary favorite 87, but that's most likely not going to be a possibility. In any case, I thank everyone for their support, their listenership, their music, and all that good stuff. As much as I would have liked to continue the show ad infinitum, I have other priorites I'll be moving on to, but I hope no makes a big deal out of the show ending. We'll get to that stage when we need to get there. Stick around for a date on VGF81 for sometime in the next week, and of course more info in the coming weeks on how we're going to ultimately conclude the show.

Rather sad if you don't recognize the original in here. This is very far from a liberal arrangement.

Yeah, I wasn't even that familiar with the Jackal original, despite playing this mix on VG Frequency way back in the day before my first interview with Beatdrop. Listening to the original, you really appreciate the upgrade and the additional energy BD added to the picture. It's honestly a shame that the soundtrack gets no love from anyone else. Very enjoyable stuff here that, IMO, doesn't even quite sound like Dain's typical sound.

Some of the mixes way WAY in the back (this one was on page 28), I just don't understand what they're doing there. I remember this one from way back in early 2002 when I first sat down and listened to mixes from games I had played, and the arrangement here was pretty pimp and laid back. I didn't know who Mustin even was back then, but the sax solo was quality and another good aspect of the track. Solid stuff, and a good example of the older material here. Goldeneye's a pretty popular game; not really sure why this and the other 007 mixes don't get more commentary.

Hopefully not sounding snide or smartassed, but if you hadn't personally mailed them already, Alan, I'd start. Get your networking skills going!

Yeah, hope you can do something about this. Cheers for your vote on my Chrono cross mix btw, I really don't know why I keep trying to keep working up that old song, hopefully newer mixes will be in the works. YUNOWAMSAYIN' NIGGA'? Yeeeah fo'rizzle ohn ya. ... http://www.tzone.org/~llin/psf/packs2/ShadowHearts_psf2.rar - 125 "Alice" Played this on VGF77, so it's a solid enough listen sure, but there were still issues. Decent intro already arranging the source material; it's an interesting spin on it. Keeps the source tune's drab feel while slowly building to something happier. Wasn't really feeling the tone of the snare here at :33. Felt like you needed something more subdued and less punchy there to work well with the other sounds, but we'll see how the others feel. It would probably be a non-issue simply by pulling it back some. The sound balance among the acoustic guitar synth, e-piano-type deal, drums and occasional strings was rather messy at times. Everything still has the problem of things fighting it out to occupy the same space in the soundfield and the listener's ear. It sounds better after multiple listens, but still needs to be sorted out. I generally like the writing and the instrumentation ideas, and the "performance" aspect of the track sounds a lot better handled than in past attempts at sequencing real-sounding instruments. Maybe it's just me, but on writing alone I thought the piece was a reasonable pass. I liked the job it managed to do overhauling such a miserable sounding original to a more upbeat style, and for 3:16-long it's saying what it needs to say with the quick and dirty. But with instruments fighting for space on more than one occasion, the melody's no longer a focal point and the piece seems to lack direction as a result. Again, the instruments have gotta be working with each other, not against. Minor note, but you gotta also watch the volume for stuff like the percussion at 1:41 & 2:48. Somewhat similar criticisms to your Chrono Cross mix regarding the sound balance/placement, only not quite as drastic as the production wasn't nearly as messy. Still needs some work though, Alex. Nonetheless, you continue to improve and it shows. I wouldn't change anything about this on the arrangement side. I'd simply say focus on reworking the balance and placement of the sounds so they occupy their own space and allow the melodic material to provide the track's direction and focus. Once you get those production aspects working in your favor, the whole piece will sound more cohesive. Could snag some YESs, so good luck with the rest of the vote. NO (borderline/resubmit)

Absolutely. To me there's too gaping of a quality disparity between that one section, and the rest of the track. It's been done before.

http://snesmusic.org/spcsets/sm.rsn - "Brinstar Red Soil Swampy Area" (sm-20.spc) I was a big fan of "Boat Soul", so this should be pretty cool. And indeed it is. Great sounds, great arrangement, very organic-sounding and certainly mellow, chill and laid back. It just goes to show you what kind of material can be extracted and reworked from such an overtly dark soundtrack. Wasn't liking the stuff from 1:04-1:28 much; probably a good idea in your head, but it sounded sterile. And man, what's going with the bassline from 2:08-2:34? Doesn't sound right at all. Quick reference to Chrono Trigger's "Wind Scene" from 2:34-2:43, but with some more seemingly odd notes. Could just be me there, but oh well; not a meaningful hit against it. Regardless, good stuff most of the way through the rest of things until that wonky comping from 3:21-4:16. Some of this just sounds like you're stringing these notes together without rhyme or reason. Of course, Sam would go "OMG A#7-B6-C4, U SUNK MY BATTLESHIP, THIS IZ GR8, I <3" faster than you can say "Momentary Standstill". Well, fuck that. Vigilante initially felt it sounded aimless, and it does. If you're gonna throw that improv in there, give it more structure, direction, and melody so that it pieces together nicely the whole way through. Can't pass this in good conscience with the entire last 1/4th of the piece sounding questionable like that. Despite that, lemme say that you've come a long way Caio from your earlier work, including your past rejections and your narrowly passed Sonic 3 mix. Most of this is very creative, well-put together and polished on the production side. Your stuff may have its rough spots with the writing, but the improvement is definitely there in spades. NO (rework/easy resubmit)

http://snesmusic.org/spcsets/ct.rsn - "Undersea Palace" (ct-3-08.spc) Some of the stuff in the intro certainly got trebly and could have been toned down, but I'm willing to hear where it's all going. The closest analog I could think of to AE's stuff is "Wind Shear", but this didn't sound like his stuff at all to me. Man, no kidding about that guitar synth at 1:09. It's sounds pretty weak and dragged all of 1:09-1:55 down, a solid chunk of the track. I thought the lack of fluidity in its performance was a bigger deal than the others, especially 1:27-1:55 where it was pretty much on its own in the foreground. It sounds whiny and shrill and doesn't even form a good texture with the rest of the grungy, dirty instrumentation. When there was a pretty decent different guitar synth being used at 1:00 as well, the synth at 1:09 also sounds rather lame in comparison. 2:06's section was at least better in that the lead synth wasn't trying to function like an electric guitar. Very nice, subtle escalation of the sounds under the melody from 2:06-2:14. 2:15-2:23 not as much, but 2:23-2:41 just sounded awfully cluttered and overbearing, rather than possessing a pleasing thick texture. Melody just got hammered by a mess of sounds in the effort to go for a very aggressive and powerful section before the close. That's more subjective to me, and thereby not a deal-breaker. This is pretty cool so far, and has some very dark, dirty, industrial overtones. I'm not really as impressed by some of the sounds as the others were, but at the same time the construction here was pretty good and put these sounds to strong use. But I'm a stickler. The synth guitar at 1:09 IS a dealbreaker for me. Beyond the feeling that the performance on it was too mechanical and not that strong to begin with, that synth itself sounds awful when placed in this setting. It's a choice that can either be avoided or at least worked around. I think it's a glaringly sour and beginner-ish-sounding spot in an otherwise good mix. I can't pass it in good conscience. Best of luck on the rest of the vote, Alex. NO (tweak/resubmit)

http://snesmusic.org/spcsets/sdd.rsn - "Mission 4" (sdd-05.spc) Heh, the SPC pack says mission 4, but I've certainly never played that crud so I wouldn't know any better. Good upbeat, energetic intro. Melody's quickly alluded to (firstly at :11) during the buildup. Finally comes in for real at :52. Nothing really groundbreaking, but this was getting it done with some good instruments and breakbeats. Good woodwind synth usage at 1:15, along with the strings beneath that. The synthetic texture was nice and airy here; things were working well. Good changeup of the beat rhythm at 1:50 for something fresh; same with the melody at 2:02. Chorus came back at 2:31 thought with some nasty hard techno where the plain beats and distortion-type stuff were dragging this down. Luckily didn't last too long. Can't say I was feeling the beats either from 2:48-3:11, but decent recovery out of it with the arranged melody from 3:11-3:34. Kind of dragged to have it playing by itself like that from 3:23-3:34, though I see how you were trying to create contrast moving back into the breakbeat section at 3:35. Maybe just do that from 3:29-3:34, though it's not a particularly significant complain. Just a suggestion so it wouldn't seem empty for so long but still provides the contrast you intended. Last section from 4:21-4:49/end didn't really end the track strongly IMO, but the overall quality was pretty solid. Relatively speaking, the sounds weren't particularly strong, but the arrangement kept the focus on playing around with the melody and provided a good deal of variation with the supporting elements to keep things moving forward. Not an overly strong YES, but not borderline. Could draw NOs, but cool potential sophomore mix here. I look forward to hearing your future works.

http://snesmusic.org/spcsets/mmx3.rsn - "Gravity Beetle (mmx3-08.spc) Got this played at some clubs, eh? Good for you; I hope it was well received at least. OMG HUGE NRG NIGGA intro at :12. Crowd yelling in the background was a short loop, sounding really cheap, but most people won't notice so it wasn't a big deal. Melody finally came in at 1:03, not sounding too hot, but then OMG I'M MELTING NRG NIGGA at 1:11. Hahahaha, nice fakeout. Stuff really started at 1:17. Really wish there was more going on for the genre than simply applying these hard beats to the rest of the music. Wish there was more substance to the genre approach. Nonetheless, good effects on the electric guitar synth playing the melody to let it sound thick. Too bad it's getting buried by all these beats; at least punch it up a little more. Some original writing on top of the source's rhythm section at 2:07. Then some purely original stuff at 2:20. Again though with that piped in crowd noise loop; sounds like "gust of wind" SFX being used over and over. Another iteration of the melody at 3:07. Still sounds pretty good, but it's not much different from the ideas you had before. Can we get some actual melodic interpretation here though? Source's rhythm section was used on its own at 3:56 until the end. Ah man, the track cut out at 4:58 right in the middle of the fadeout, leaving 7 seconds of silence. Needs a fix there. This is some fairly well put together hard dance, but lacks substance in the treatment of the melody. Right now, it's a good adaptation to hard trance, but not a showcase of reworking or adding to the melodic content. Vary up the beats on occasion, and perhaps find a better "crowd cheering" sample as well. Anyway, you have some good sounding conservative stuff don't just cover the melody wholesale without more interpretation. Good work so far, Ken. IMO, it's all about the rearrangement component now. If this doesn't make it, especially by a unanimous vote, don't see simply as a rejection of your style/genre as it's not. NO (rework/resubmit)

http://www.zophar.net/gym/sor1.rar - Round 4 ("Keep the Groovin'") Rather generic sounds here, but there were still some decent ideas here. The synth lead you had here really doesn't work here though. It was too loud, obscuring or flat out drowning out your other sounds when in play. The beats and ethnic-style percussion in the back were ok, but didn't vary up at all (aside from dropping it out in the middle of the track); take them off cruise control please. Wondering what the hell happened at 1:54 to cause all that mud. The piano there and whatever glassier sound was doubling the melody sounded absolutely terrible as a result. Then the whole thing just started to sound really abrasive at 2:44. Just poor mixing choices. The arrangement was ok per se. Not really much interpretation going on, but you did change some things around and tried to personalize the approach. Needs more varied beats, better sound textures, and better mixing. NO

http://www.zophar.net/nsf/megaman3.zip - "Top Man Stage" (Track 6) I liked the intro here; decent feel there, even though the writing was a bit odd. Plain drums entered at :17, and I wasn't liking where it was potentially going, but oh well. Melody entered in at :25, joined by the bleh drums at :31. The cymbal writing was fine, it's mostly that snare pattern that dragged it down. Anyway, not much there besides a plain-jane cover of the melody by some synths + the drums. The texture was really empty. Picked up more at 1:19 with some synth soloing. Then another iteration of the melody at 1:33 with some more ideas added for support, followed by more oddly-written original material working in tandem with the Top Man theme starting at 1:55. One last iteration of the melody at 2:29 with some different sounds; still pretty empty and conservative, but again with some new ideas with the writing on the supporting instrumentation. It's all rather beginner-ish and uncohesive, but at least you have somewhat of the right idea on the approach to arrangement. Get more interpretive on the actual melodic material (not just the support work), vary up your percussion more, and work on creating more complex textures. Stop by the ReMixing forum to get started on that. NO

http://www.zophar.net/nsf/faxanadu.zip - Track 6 Damn, way too much hiss bro. Considering there's not much else to focus on besides the two guitars (and bass later), the whole thing should be produced well. Perhaps the ReMixing forum can help you learn to reduce that hiss in future recordings. The multitracking was pretty good, BTW. One note felt wonky at :43; perhaps a sour chord, I wouldn't know. Arrangement was ultra conservative. Instead of simply doing three iterations of the melody, personalize the arrangement more and throw in some of your own ideas to play around with the melody. Listen to the recent material here and compared with the source material to get an idea of what we're talking about. You gotta go beyond (and offer more than) a straightforward cover. NO

http://www.snesmusic.org/spcsets/dkc.rsn - "Jungle Groove" (dkc-05.spc) Bassline reminded me of something that I can't put my finger on. Maniac Mansion or something; dunno off the top of my head. Pretty basic opening with some (non-dNb) drum and bass along with a synth on arranged melody at :30. Not particularly interesting, but it would work well as long as it's building to something. Somewhat old-school OCR-ish in the approach. Organ also arranged the theme from 1:20-1:37 with some good ideas, but the texture was still lacking. Picked up at 1:43 with a more ideas for the melody followed by some good keyboard soloing, but the drums were still boring. Fairly weak/boring first 2:26 considering what you COULD have done with it. We hit some silence as a transition for another arrangement of "Jungle Groove" at 2:30 complete with drum intro. Bassline was pretty good, but the brass sample was poor and the piano sounded very mechanical during its solo at 3:23. Too bad though, when I was far away and heard the solo coming from my headphones, the writing was really energetic and creative. Too bad the execution with your sounds didn't do it justice. If you can't do more with the first half to give it some substance, scrap the first half and focus on polishing up the second half. NO

Would be a violation. BTW, I like the second version he did of that, but merely slicing and cutting up the source material itself is not acceptable. Your question throws some ambiguities into the picture, but if you're doing a legitimate rearrangement that happens to have some cut up sampling, that's ok. It's all about using the directly sampled original in a tasteful manner. If you removed direct sampling from a song and the arrangement couldn't stand on it's own, that's a good indication that it's a violation.

http://www.zophar.net/usf/MarioKart64_usf.rar - 28 "Victory Lap" Dunno why you said this was a mix of Rainbow Road in the submission letter, but oh well. Rearrangement was nearly non-existent, as this was structured exactly like the original. Basically an electronic genre conversion. The beats were basic and almost never changed up. The atmosphere was incredibly murky. Nice for a beginner, but this lack of creativity is everything we don't want. Get more interpretive, and hit the ReMixing forum to learn how to get your material to sound cleaner while going for a loud dance techno sound. Then get some feedback from the unwashed masses in the Works forum to see where else they feel you need to improve.

http://vgmusic.com/music/console/sega/genesis/jp_youlose.mid http://vgmusic.com/music/console/sega/genesis/jp_grantstory.mid http://vgmusic.com/music/console/sega/genesis/jp_mapmusic.mid http://vgmusic.com/music/console/sega/genesis/jp_pstation.mid You mixed with headphones, praise the Jesus. I'll still say, the performance sounds pretty good. Production-wise, there were still some hits: audible hiss in places (better than before though, and likely unavoidable at this point), and a fairly dulled atmosphere that lacks polish. This is definitely better than before, but if it were a "recording" of a live performance, it would only sound like a decent recording and too lossy, IMO. If this was a few years ago, I'd honestly say YES, but at this point I'd like to see if someone else in the community could take a look at the source files and give this the extra push it needs with an assist. With this version sounding much improved though, it's gonna come down to whether this arrangement trumps the production. If the two were a bit more balanced, I could YES. NO-borderline Nonetheless, you've got TO & Vig pulling for this, and the improvements are clearly there, so this version might be enough to sway some borderline votes. I genuinely wish you the best of luck, bro. This is at least what your first resub should have sounded like.

http://www.zophar.net/gbs/tetris.zip - Track 2 ("Korobushka") Unfortunately not really enough substance to this; just a genre conversion with some generic-level eJay beats 'n boom-tss changing here and there. There's some original sections, but they're very brief and just used as transitions. Melody's not interpreted in any meaningful way. The production was also pretty muddy. NO

http://www.zophar.net/gym/sonicspn_fixed.rar - "Toxic Caves" Pretty good jazzy-type stuff. The arrangement is pretty cool like djp mentioned, but some of the samples are fairly weak, or at least not used to their best. The drumming sounds fairly good, and the sequenced piano performance was definitely above average though it needs to sound more fluid. The overly synthetic sax sample was a weak link here. The sound of it has no body to it. Same with your bass. There's gotta be better free stuff available. If you can make the piano more fluid for some sections (e.g. :15-:30, where it sound really mechanical), and get the sax and bass sounding good, this would be in much better shape. Nice work so far. NO (rework/resubmit)

All votes are finally in for the close. If another RESUB ever materializes, perhaps consult the non-borderline NOs directly for feedback before another resubmission. In any case, you certainly get props for the improvement the piece has shown over time. Don't be discouraged, Alex, as you continue to move in the right direction.

As I understand it, we're gonna have a Site Project subforum specifically for this project once we do the vB switch. I believe that would ential creating threads for each character, allowing for better organization. So keep working on this stuff, as you'll be in a position to make even more significant progress in the coming months.