Kanthos

Sibelius won't give you results that are anywhere near remix-worthy. Even if you use the best instrumental plugins they have, you'll still have to do a lot to get quality results out of it, and as far as I know, Sibelius doesn't support that kind of editing. The most you could do with it is write and arrange your piece, export the MIDI information, and import into a DAW like FL Studio. I can't seem to download the song right now, so I can't make any suggestions on how to improve it.

Oinkness, I wouldn't say this is particularly slow. The tempo of my melody notes, accounting for the rhythmic differences of changing a straight-ahead 4/4 piece to a 6/4 piece, is nearly right on with the original. 6/4 may feel slower, but other than the intro and ending, my mix plays back at 191 bpm. Thanks for the feedback, Liontamer. Obviously I can expect some differing opinions when this gets to the panel unless I do indeed drop a solo Zora does a better job of small quotes from the original than I do during solos (no reason why I can't do so myself, instead of/in addition to quoting Footprints). When I gave a time, I was counting solos as being improv over the source chords, and due to what I'd heard earlier, not source material, and I forgot about the few quotes thrown in. As for mine, the only place World Revolution happens is in the intro and ending, the rest is based on the chords from Black Omen. Basically, the source has three sections. Section 1 is in G minor corresponding to 0:36-1:05 and repeated again right away, Section 2 is in G minor with a change to A minor, corresponding to 1:36-2:05 and Section 3 is in B minor corresponding to 4:56-5:07 (the riff I do in the piano at that point is straight source material with the rhythm shifted a bit). If I understand your analysis, the reason you think this is fine (and perhaps what the other judge and remixer missed) is the fact that every time I play section 2, such as 2:35-3:09 and 4:10-4:40, I don't alter the chords so the resemblance to the original is much more clear than when I play section 1, where I do alter the chords (albeit in a way that still resembles the original to jazz-sympathetic listeners). The only thing I can see that you missed is 4:56-5:17 which contains the 3rd section in the form of the piano riff followed by the end of the second section in the piano and bass (right after the little silence where there will be a drum fill; this is the same thing I play at the start of the piece for 4 bars before the flute melody comes in). Thanks again for your comments. I got a few things out of your comments: 1) as long as I stick closely to the original with respect to chords, solos are fine, 2) it might be a good idea to have the occasional quote from the source material within a solo, and 3) besides processing, I might want to make the piano part thicker and/or try to find another instrument or two that could be added without disrupting the direction the piece is headed.

Before I make my point, I want to say that this thread is not about my specific WIP and is not intended to insult DJ Pretzel or any of the judges. I have a lot of respect for the work you all do for this site. I also am not complaining about the fact that my mix in particular would be rejected if I submitted it now (apart from production issues; I know about those and they're irrelevant to my point). I am hoping to point out that a particular genre of music has little hope of being accepted. Anyone who's been to the WIP forum recently knows that I'm working on a 6/4 jazz remix of the Black Omen theme from Chrono Trigger. What I have done with it is common practice for a small-group jazz arrangement. I have an intro (based on World Revolution from Chrono Trigger), play the melody twice over a chord progression based on the original Omen progression, play a flute solo over that progression, play a piano solo over the chord progression in two different keys, have a short (12-bar) break section of totally original material, use another mini-theme from the Black Omen as a transition, state the melody once more, and have an ending similar to the intro (World Revolution again). In terms of length, the song is 6:11 in its current form, with roughly 3:30 of that being solos and the 12-bar break. Someone who listened to my track earlier today pointed out that it would likely be rejected for straying too far from the source material and being made up of too much original interpretation. I asked a judge (who I will not name; it's not relevant to my point) to listen to it with respect to that comment. The judge agreed, and also suggested that my arrangement might be too sparse. One possibility I had was to drop the flute solo, cutting out 45-60 seconds of original material. This would no longer make the flute necessary in the piece, as all it would do would be to play the melody. The judge suggested that cutting it and sticking to a piano trio format would make the sparsity worse. I have no issue with the judge. I have a lot of respect for all the judges, and I know this judge made comments in response to the submission standard. My question is about the standard itself. Firstly, original material. In any good jazz arrangement, there is going to be original material. Jazz is an organic musical style built on improvisation. Tweaking a few notes in the melody is done in all styles; jazz takes it farther with full solos over chords. My arrangement was by no means experimental with respect to jazz: Head-Solos-Head is commonplace in every style of jazz. Furthermore, any reasonable jazz listener is able to tie the chord progression of the head to the chord progression of the solos, provided they're shared. Unless someone were to start listening to my mix 3 minutes in, it's not at all a stretch to expect them to be concious of the main theme during a solo. My mix was also of average length for a song of that tempo; many songs (including Footprints, the 6/4 jazz standard from which I got some inspiration) are over 10 minutes with multiple solos each much longer than both of mine. As a point of comparison, Neskvartetten's Waltz for Zora (my favourite of the jazz mixes on the site and one that probably everyone would agree was not wrongly accepted) clocks in at 4:30 of which only 1:45 or so uses melodic material from the source tune. So why does mine seem longer? Perhaps because there's more melodic material in my source tune, and thus the solos are themselves longer, and so there is a longer period of time between statements of the theme. While 15-20 second solos are common for beginning soloists, you don't hear that in professional jazz outside of the context of call-and-response solos. So, it appears that in order to get a jazz mix posted, one necessary criteria is to go against artistic sensibilities and either have one solo or short solos, or to have a well-recorded live band do the mix (in which case the 50% interpretation, 50% original rule of thumb suggested to me by another mixer might be overlooked due to the awesomeness of live instruments; again, I in no way intend to suggest that Waltz for Zora shouldn't be on the site). My second point is about a jazz quartet or piano trio setting being too sparse. There are many high-quality solo piano mixes on the site, all of which would, by definition, be more sparse than my mix. I know that the judge's comment about sparsity was influenced by the fact that I don't yet have drums in my mix, parts of the piano need a boost in velocity, and I haven't done any effects or panning, but assuming this doesn't make all the difference, why are solo piano mixes not too sparse but a jazz quartet is? Perhaps it's because my mix was intended to be light and quiet in parts (it is, after all, a quartet, not a big band). If so, what's wrong with this? My mix, when I'm finished with it, will have a wide dynamic spread. Or maybe I didn't have enough notes in the piece? To me, silence between notes is music too, and playing more doesn't equate to playing better. It doesn't make sense to me to keep a flute part in the mix when I'd rather reduce the mix to a trio format simply to meet some standard of sparsity. Piano trios have been making music the way I envision my mix since long before video games existed. I don't like the fact that I have to compromise my artistic view in order to get a song accepted to this site. My point in this thread isn't to complain, but to raise awareness of what I believe to be a shortcoming in the submission standards for this site. I value this site and its goals, and am just trying to raise awareness of what has quickly become an important issue for me. That said, I am attentive to the judge's suggestions and will be reworking my mix; I'm not giving up because I believe the standards may have problems. At the same time, I feel that other remixes in my strongest style will face the same problems and I am reluctant to begin future jazz remixes for this reason.

I do have GuitarRig 2, although for that matter, I could also use the B4-II as an amp simulator. When I get the drum track done, I'll give that a try in addition to using conventional panning and see what ends up being better. In all honesty, the lack of fixed stage positions in jazz means it doesn't matter as much and I can just go for what sounds good.

In terms of what I'd want on the stage, the drummer and pianist would either be facing each other or have the drummer facing the pianist and the pianist at 90 degrees so turning his/her head would let him/her make eye contact with the drummer. Bass is definitely central, because bass really is the core foundation of a jazz rhythm section, not drums. I've seen a few concerts, both big band and small combos, and that's generally how they do it in a combo. In a big band, it really depends on stage space; I've seen the pianist and drummer beside each other in the back row with the bass player on the other side of the drummer from the pianist.

Awesome, this is the kind of feedback I was hoping for at this point. I have yet to do any editing of any kind (besides removing and correcting the few wrong notes I hit as I played this). Everything sounds centered because I have yet to use any panning at all. I was planning on doing the velocity editing and so on now while I wait for Battery, and panning once I have a drum track. About panning, it's kind of a tricky subject since there isn't really a "standard" stage position for instruments in a jazz quartet the way there is in an orchestra. If I was doing a stage setup, I'd probably want drums and piano on the outsides, facing each other and bass and flute close to the centre, with bass closer to the drums than the piano. In terms of panning, that tells me which instruments are left and right, but not how far right or left to go. Obviously I don't want drums full left or anything, but is there any kind of rough guideline to how far I should pan them, or is it just something I do by ear? I generally like the idea of a call-and-response solo or something more formalized where the piano and flute are doing something, written or improvized, off each other. I don't think I'm going to here though, because I like the arrangement the way it is and adding another section would work, but at the cost of making it *really hard* to fit the song in a 6 MB MP3, and if I get rejected submitting this, I don't want it to be because I can't follow the file size guidelines .

What would you suggest is needed to improve the quality of the music? What makes you think she sounds like she's singing over the music as opposed to singing with the music? In other words, besides phrasing, what needs to be done to make this OCR-worthy?

Drums are on hold for the moment. I was planning on using Jamstix, a VSTi that has a mode where it comes up with a drum part in response to your music and a playback mode. I'd tried it out on a few other styles, including a 4/4 jazz pattern, and it worked reasonably well. My idea was to do a basic part with Jamstix and then load the MIDI data into FL Studio and rework parts of it to make it fit the song better (for example, I have a very specific drum part in mind for the flute/piano/bass unison break around 4:30 in my track). Jamstix failed horribly at doing a 6/4 or even 3/4 jazz pattern, so I ordered Battery and am going to do the drums by hand. So now I'm just waiting on Battery.

Well if you don't like it, don't listen to it. I didn't particularly like the direction that clip seemed to be taking the song in either, but good for him for trying something different. One of the worst things in any artistic field is to either have your work or particular songs pigeonholed into one and only one style. Any great artist who did multiple versions of their songs with significant variation will doubtless have fans arguing that the original is the "pure" version and everything else sucks, when the problem is most often that the fans don't cope with change and expect that ArtistCirca1970 will be the same as ArtistCircaNow. People change and get different ideas, and good for them. If people like Jeremy Robson didn't want to deviate from the "expected" way to do songs, we wouldn't have much of a remixing community.

I don't see how you guys are getting two files at all. Clicking a single link to download a single file gives you one file, period. What browser are you using and is the second file named NAME_OF_REMIX.mp3.part? The only thing I can think of is that when you download using Firefox, it creates a filename.ext.part file which only lasts until the download completes.

Had time to finish the initial MIDI recording, as well as do some other changes. The first post is edited to have the current version up. The changes mentioned in the previous post are also up in this version. I also changed my piano samples; I'm now using EWQL SO's dark steinway and I like it better in terms of realism. I realize the piano is particularly quiet from the piano solo to the end of the song. I somehow managed to mis-configure my MIDI keyboard so the velocities were recorded softer than I was expecting, and I didn't catch it until I'd finished all the recording and switched to one of the pianos in EWQL SO. This will be changed, but not at 2 AM Also, there's a couple places with noticeable breaks between sections, particularly after the piano solo around 5 minutes into the piece when I change up from Am to Bm and switch back to a 6/4 pattern instead of groups of 3 bars of 3/4. The drums will fill in the space once I get them done. Still to do: Drums, articulation/velocity editing, mixing/effects.

That's what I used. Silver edition, since I believe in supporting artists and programmers and couldn't afford better. EWQL SO is a great tool if used correctly; at the moment, I'm using it no differently than I'd use a soundfont, but that's what velocity editing and keyswitches are for EDIT: I added more last night, but couldn't get FL Studio to export it, and didn't feel like fighting with the software at 2 AM, so it's not posted yet. I'll get it up tonight, as well as hopefully adding more to the track. I cleaned up some timings and a few notes on what I already had, altered the first four chords on the intro, redid the flute solo, changed the flute melody to vary a bit more from the original melody, did background parts for the piano solo and did the break section after the piano solo. I still have to notate the piano solo itself and do another section of the main theme at the end to close off the piece. After that, drums. I have a few ideas for the title. If you're a jazz nerd, you'll probably get the theme (and the second source of inspiration for the mix), especially after you hear the song quoted somewhere in the mix. Opinions? 1) A Shorter Way Near Lavos 2) A Shorter Path to Lavos 3) Footprints Through the Omen 4) Footprints of Lavos 5) Ominous Footprints

I've added you on AIM (if you don't mind). Feel free to bounce ideas off me if you like. Yeah, maybe you have a long way to go with this. Welcome to remixing I've put a large number of hours into my Chrono Trigger Black Omen remix (currently up in the WIP section) and I've only got roughly half the piece done, and that's not counting any editing to make it sound realistic, the drum track, and some cleanup of rhythms and notes. Not that I'm any kind of pro (for that matter, you should be giving me advice since you've got two posted mixes plus a bunch of other mixes on your site) but what I've found so far is that having too many musical options can be distracting. If you're not used to singing songs and altering the melodies, for example, I wouldn't do it, at least not without writing it out, since it'll be another thing that gets in the way of the perfect recording you're going for. That's why I suggested writing out all the harmony. Kudos to those who can get good takes on the first or second try (I can't; the flute solo on my WIP is the result of over 30 consecutive takes and still needs some note editing), but if you improv harmony all the way through and aren't comfortable with doing so, you'll sacrifice musicality since you're too focused on the improv. Good luck!

The flute needs work. The current version is one of the EWQL Symphonic Orchestra instruments. I can't remember which one it was offhand, but it was the one with the most even velocities so that it would sound half-decent without any tweaking. I do intend to use several samples so that, for example, the staccato sounds better and the flute has a lighter tone, but I haven't gotten there yet. There will be a full drum part, added once I finish the rest of the instruments (hopefully tonight).

Hah, me understand music well? This is my first remix that's gotten far enough for me to consider putting it up as a WIP, and even when it's finished and cleaned up, it'll still be so far from being what's in my head (which, for the record, varies slightly every time I hear it, being a jazz composition and all). Anyway, the short answer is no, you don't really need to know music theory of any kind. FL Studio and other programs will let you point-and-click your notes, so if you're patient enough and have a good ear, you can end up with something that sounds good without knowing the exact notes you've entered. That said, it probably takes a ton of raw talent to make good mixes without any previous musical knowledge. The more you know, the better off you'll be. Doing a jazz mix without knowing basic harmony and either knowing jazz harmony or listening to a ton of jazz or both just won't work. Now that my computer is no longer overheating frequently (thanks to pulling the side off the case and pointing a desk fan directly at the graphics card), I can hopefully get this done soon.

With respect to the harmonies, there are two things you could improve on that I hear. One is that the arrangement mainly treats the piece like a lead vocal with background vocals in some places, but the mix treats the two voices as equivalent strength. Mixing your background vocal track in at a lower volume than the main will help a lot. The other thing is that there are a few places where your harmonies just don't work. I'm at work and can't listen with enough focus to list them all, but places where the lines converge to unison in the middle of a phrase really don't work for the piece. The first place I can hear is the second harmony note you sing, at around 1:24. There are also a couple places where it sounds like your harmony line jumps from below to above the melody. If you have any training in counterpoint, I'd strongly suggest firing up a notation program and hammering out the harmony part in relation to the melody. Another comment about the harmony is that when you sing "Fighting your demons strong" at 3:28 after you sing it in the main voice, you flatten the 7th of the scale on the second syllable of demons. Given that pretty much everything else you've done is in a harmonic minor mode (raised 7th), that one note sounds out of place. My guess is that you improvised your harmony on top of the melody on the fly, instead of having a set harmony on paper or in your head before you sang it. Most of the time, I like how it works, except for the mix volume, but there are enough places where the harmony choice is notably out of style for the piece. I don't know whether you don't have much improv experience or just not on vocals, but while practicing improv works, for a final mix that you submit, I'd suggest having it written out, or at very least, thought out clearly in your head so that you're singing something you've worked out ahead of time. That will also let you focus more on the musicality of the arrangement instead of the improv (see my next point). I agree with SnappleMan's comment (just not the way he expressed most of what he said ) about the relatively flat dynamic level. Again, I think your focus was on pitch and clarity instead of musicality. You know the lyrics but don't really feel them and express them at an emotional level. I stand by my previous comments about the phrasing and choice of lyrics as well. You either don't know how to or just aren't singing in a really punchy, upbeat style. It sounds like you're taking a lyrical approach to the piece (which, from what I've heard of your other remixes and WIPs, is your strongest style and works really well for you) and are trying to sing in a more punchy style without fully understanding it. Something else I just thought of with respect to lyrics (while listening to your Fisherman's Horizon piece, oddly enough): the melody has to fit the lyrics and the lyrics have to fit the melody. If the melody is causing you to emphasize the wrong part of a word (i.e. calling to them, wishING they'd come), you can change the lyrics but you can also change the melody. Don't be tied down to singing the exact melody from the game. You have the freedom to alter it to make it fit your song. This is a remix after all. Even listening to bands do live versions of their studio songs, it's the small alterations that make it worth listening to. Good luck with this piece. I think you have something that can work if you approach the vocals in the right way, and maybe do a bit of cleanup on the remix (I know the mixer doesn't want to touch it again, but redoing just the drums might make a difference and wouldn't be that hard to do). You have talent, and when you find the right way to express it, you can get a lot of good mixes done.

GTS sounds like a really nice feature. As for differences, I know about the differences in pokemon. I meant with respect to story, interface, or anything else. Or does the story just not matter much?

If you were looking for a reason to go buy Civ IV, you have it once that expansion comes out. Congrats Jill, that's awesome news!

Can someone explain the idea of Pokemon to me? If I'm right, it's basically RPG-style battles with monsters that you've captured, bred, or traded, plus some RPG-like story elements and gameplay making it more than just combat. Is this basically it? Why should I consider buying one of the Pokemon games? What is the difference between the two?

I agree with Tweek's comments about making a recording. However, there's a lot to be said for singing the entire song all the way through. Obviously, you can't edit live performances; the audience hears what they hear and you can't change that. Plus, while editing vocal parts produces the "best" results, being able to do a track (or at least large parts of a track) in one take is a good skill to have.

Definitely does. The lead doesn't have to be flute either; it could just as easily be sax, trumpet, or even piano. I only picked flute because of a lack of good jazz trumpet samples, good sax samples period, a mic to record myself playing alto, and my inability to comp and play a noticeable melody line at the same time. I'll be sending a PM your way.

It really won't save you much time. Computer keyboards don't have any sense of velocity; they're either down or they're up. The best you could do is use it to play in your notes at a uniform velocity, which you'd then have to edit to get anything sounding remotely musical. You might as well click the notes onto a piano roll and edit velocities.

Druids are hybrid classes as well, doing a reasonable job at healing (caster/tree form), dps (in cat or moonkin form, as a rogue or mage respectively) or tanking (bear form).

Click on your name in this post. It'll take you to your profile. Look in the URL for your profile; your user ID is the part after the u? (in your case, 3123).

I'm not sure if it can or not, but if not, FL Studio has the Fruity SoundFont Player you can use.