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Tensei

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Posts posted by Tensei

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    dying and having to respawn isn't poor design

    dying (because somebody walked up to you and used a thing that made it so you could not move or act and then losing gold so as to make it so you will have an even shittier time dealing with the same thing a second time and so on and so forth until badda bing the game is already lost) and having to respawn is poor design

    I get that you dislike the snowballing effect from gold loss on death, but I still don't see the difference between being CC'd and waiting to respawn. In both cases you are not playing the game. If you look at the hypothetical Dotalike example without a CC mechanic I gave, you still deny your opponent the ability to play the game for 30-60 seconds every time you kill them, and I don't think that at that point it really matters whether that happened because of chain stuns or because of pure burst damage.

    I'm pretty sure that zircon refers to HoN champions having better design in terms of original skills and concepts (i.e. not a blinkstrike and a your-next-attack-does-something-extra skill on every new hero)

    I like LoLs champion design more on a visual level actually, and there are some cool concepts skillwise as well (Orianna).

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Tensei

    there's also the point that bleck had where he said that any game design based around denying your opponents the ability to play the game - or, more accurately, a game designed around not playing it for half the players - is poor design.

    I still don't understand this notion. If you die, you aren't playing for 40~ seconds. This isn't exclusive to the Dotalike genre but exists in most FPSes. Does this mean that the entire concept of getting punished for death in videogames through a respawn timer is poor design?

    In that sense, even a dotalike with NO crowd control at all would still be based about 'denying your opponents the ability to play the game' by making sure you kill them more than they kill you.

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    In my experience, carries definitely exist in lol - and im glad its not to the 'extreme' of classic DOTA (which I never played, so yea.) As a player though, I just don't really like the concept of the 'carry'. A set of characters who scale harder then the rest just screams imbalance to me for some reason.

    Why? The existence of hard carries in Dota is balanced by the fact that they are way weaker earlygame, and that gankers and supports can dominate early and midgame almost as hard as carries do lategame. There aren't any hard carries that have such a ridiculously easy earlygame as a champion like Caitlyn in LoL.

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Tensei

    You assume that Cho manages to land his full combo all at once and Corki doesn't get to fully kite Cho. You all should really stop having any arguments of this sort cause in the end it comes down to what happens in an individual fight. Being fully built is important, yes, but it makes small difference when your team is real behind. It's much more important to get 2-3 pretty farmed heroes rather than a single super carry because those just don't exist in LoL.

    That's my point. It doesn't really matter which champion it is, because as long as they're farmed they can all carry to a degree, which in turn kinda makes the whole idea of a distinct 'carry' type champion obsolete. I'm not saying that literally every champion scales equally well, but the differences are so much less pronounced than in Dota/HoN.

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Yeah, but arguably those HoN supports last longer too because there's no such thing as tenacity, and stuns are way more powerful. So your Behemoth will always be a good initiator even if he's not doing much damage by the end, Pollywog can still disable/push left and right, etc. Even if their actual NUMBERS aren't scaling much, they have a lot more utility on average.

    Yeah, but the cooldowns are such that you'll generally be doing nothing for ten seconds after blowing all your spells (which won't be doing a lot of damage by that point). Polly and Behemoth are useful through most of the game because they can consistently put out disables, but heroes like Pyromancer and Thunderbringer will bring very little to the table even in terms of utility later on, as Bardic pointed out, unless they're having a good game and managed to get a fast sheepstick. Shrunken Head and Nullstone are still staple carry items btw.

    My point is that with a maxed out Brand you could probably still bring the enemy carry down in a single spell rotation, BV aside, but you do actually need to have farmed that Rabaddon's/Mejai's first, and that's where the difference with HoN lies. While TB and Pyro don't do much lategame, they can just dominate early/mid by keeping the enemy carry from farming, and secure the win for their team like that without even taking their shitty lategame into consideration.

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Tensei

    Well, they don't really... a champ like Tryndamere benefits way more from farm than Garen, Brand scales better than Vlad, Ashe carries harder than Caitlyn, etc. So I don't know about that.

    The differences in carry viability between all those champs you listed are negligible as they all scale very well with farm. A farmed Garen is still a huge threat, same with Vlad and Caitlyn. So are Soraka, Janna, Rammus, Alistar etc etc. for that matter.

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Tensei

    I really dislike their design policy concerning that, because again: what is the purpose of having a carry archetype if every other champion scales more or less equally well with farm?

    to be honest, the fact that it's about teamfights and not your one star overpowering their one star is a good thing. i feel it makes for a game where everyone is contributing the whole time.

    This isn't the case at all though, and that quote Dhsu posted completely misrepresents the way Dota plays out, most likely in order to make LoL seem more appealing. They also mention how LoL is supposedly 'less defensive' when typical high level LoL games have <5 kills in the first 30 minutes, whereas in the Dota 2 games shown in the international it wasn't uncommon for there to be like one kill per minute.

    'Solo farming' an agility carry is something that only happens with a huge skill gap. Given equal skill for all players, getting your carry farmed is very much a team goal (Babysitting, Warding, Ganking/Counterganking, pushing towers to draw attention away from your carry, etc.) and it can't be pulled off by one guy just being good at lasthitting, not to mention that playing a carry-centric turtle strategy is only one out of a lot of options for overall team strategies.

    E: 4v5s in HoN play out strangely, and it mostly depends on the point at which a player dropped out, as well as what heroes were picked. Overall, a good team can make use of the extra XP and gold they get and there is a window of time where they can win while they're outleveling the enemy team by 2-3 levels, but as the game drags on their chances get slimmer.

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    There's a 625 gold item that basically all but fixes your mana problems, especially if you're a STR hero, and with a free courier there's never really a reason to go back to base from lane unless you're close to death and without money for potions. You also have a Power Supply, and a bottle if you're solo mid. I'd say the games are roughly equal when it comes to sustainability but LoL has a lot more 'freebies' like speccing for mana regen, alternate resources (HP, Energy, Rage, Heat), Clarity and various mana regen passives.

    It's also a balancing issue. Behemoth and Hammerstorm have stuns that cost like 60% of their mana pool at level 1, but they're SO powerful that you have a very good chance of getting a kill when you do use them. The laning phase in LoL is more passive in the sense that you have to slowly chip away at your enemy, hopefully waste their flash, and then maybe get a kill (as long as you're out of tower range).

    League of Legends: I finally updated the player list in the OP!

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Tensei

    Even the most aggressive support in LoL atm (Soraka) has only a fraction of the inlane man-up potential of HoN supports like Glacius. So yes, on a relative scale, it's passive.

    Also, AD Manamune Sona (my favorite build for her) isn't really a support build imo. There's a difference in what is considered a support in both games; In LoL a Champ needs to have a shield or a heal to be considered a support, and is expected to go bot with an AD carry to keep them topped off so they can farm, and having more than one support is a complete waste of a slot. In HoN a support simply needs to be a hero that requires a minimum of farm and/or levels to be effective and you typically want at least two on your team. This generally means that supports in HoN have a crapton of powerful nukes and stuns so they can destroy enemy carries early, but lack scaling skills. A support in LoL (like Soraka) can't reliably 1v1 a carry (like Caitlyn) at ANY point in the game, not even early on. A well-played Slither or Glacius in HoN will completely shit on carries early on.

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