Eino Keskitalo Members
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Posts posted by Eino Keskitalo
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Yeah, the water's quite loud in the beginning.
I like the driving beat. I agree about the snare being panned too much to the side, it tires the ear. The tom sound is not bright enough in my opinion, the drums sort of disappear when there's a tom fill in the middle of the beat. Also, I think the tom fills at 00:51, 01:25 and 02:11 sort of break the flow, the fill for instance at 01:06 works much nicer (it's at the end of a section, not in the middle of it, which might be the issue). Breaking the flow might be what you're going for, of course.. in that case, the fills could be more sparse, in my opinion. Just a few hits.
I think those cross stick hits ("clack!") - or are they rimshots - you add to the basic beat at 00:38 are quite good. However, when you do variation on those at 01:00, it sounds somewhat forced. I feel the accents or the loudest strikes are at weird places - it breaks the flow. In my opinion if you want those specific accents, the main beat should also change accordingly.
I like how you drop the bass for a while around 02:17. The bass in general could do much more during the song, it's extremely basic. It does give room to the beat, but it could do that and still be much more intresting. It also sounds a bit bright and thin for what it does. Maybe drop an octave or change the sound?
The flute and piano play the melody in unison very briefly at points. I think those sound good. At 03:02 you have a section where they play together, but different melodies (I guess the piano plays a countermelody, I don't know the terminology very well). It might be very powerful to have them play in unison for a longer time. Perhaps worth trying out!
I hope this was useful,
--Eino
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00:13-00:25
Ok, the things get going! Nice understated pads play in the background and a vibraphone-like keyboard plays the melody.. very atmospheric! And the beat, very nice, every other snare is a bit early, sounds very intresting.
the snares aren't early bro
they're jazzy, not rock, thats why its kinda throwing you off.I have no problems with the main beat, on the contrary, I think those are good. Just to clarify.
Thanks for the critiques, I'll get down to those issues when I've done my collab parts.
Great! I'll be listening.
--Eino
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The track sounds confusing and cluttered on the other hand, and on the other hand it's quite atmospheric and intresting. I like it, except for a few issues. I'd like to hear the original and compare, can you (or somebody) point me to it's direction?
00:00-00:13
Effective intro with a good hihat rhythm, low bass wobbling and some effect sounds. This works fairly well.
There's a problem, though. The intro is seven bars long. It makes it sound like you throw the drumfill in too early. Just make it one bar longer, and that should fix it. Don't get me wrong, seven bar long intro, as opposed to what I guess would be the conventional eight bars could be cool. It just doesn't work here. It sounds confusing and undeliberate. I think eight bars would fix that.
One problem why it doesn't work, is that I hear the rhythm of the hihat not starting at the start of the song. To me it starts two hihat hits after the song starts - about a half a second into it. When I count "one-two-three-four" starting from where I hear it starts, the drumfill appears too suddendly, and the beat comes in on three, which sounds wrong and confusing. You should somehow indicate where the "one" is in it. With a bass drum on each "one", for instance. That might fix the "suddenness" of the drum fill and the starting of the beat, and you could keep the intro seven bars long.
So, either put in a bass drum on each "one" of the beat, or make the intro before the drum beat starts eight bars long. That's my advice.
I hope that was understandable. Ask if it wasn't..
00:13-00:25
Ok, the things get going! Nice understated pads play in the background and a vibraphone-like keyboard plays the melody.. very atmospheric! And the beat, very nice, every other snare is a bit early, sounds very intresting.. hey, what the hell is happening? It just all falls apart?
The first four bars are good. Please, just repeat them! The two-bar drumfill transition just does not work. It just sounds and feels like the piece falls apart, and not in a good way! Don't be afraid to repeat a section that works. What happens at 00:22-00:25 just kills the track. Good thing is, it's easy to fix!
I think you should keep this part simple and conventional. I think it sounds you're desperate to do something "intresting" and unconventional. Don't be afraid to keep it simple. Trust that you will get it to sound good (it will!). You have a great "weird" section coming up in my opinion, it's important to keep the track together until then.
00:25-00:57
Ok, I guess here is where the "main melody" part comes in. I like the crescendoing choir pads, they're fairly tastefully used. I don't really like the bass much. The way it oscillates between two notes draws too much attention to it, and I feel the organ should really be the focus.
I'd like to hear the original to comment more on this section.
00:57-01:24
This in my opinion is the "weird" section that works. I like the half-time beat, really nice change of pace. What is "weird" is how the chord changes aren't at the "ones" of the beat all the times. It sounds great in my opinion.
I think the overall feel and flow of the track will improve greatly when you look at the rhythmical and structural issues of the first two parts. It will make it easier to appreciate and evaluate how well the later parts work. Please keep working on this!
--Eino
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One of the most memorable tracks on VotL. I love the "cyberpunk" feel I get from this. What a tasty bass! There's a lot of space in the mix which is really nice. I love the subtle, eerie synths, and the big "wide" distorted guitar chords which are like sheets of metallic sound. The middle ska section with the piano and organ is fun, even if I like the other parts much more, and the sections complement each other well. Can't complain. A fantastic track!
--Eino
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Very solid track. Sounds great, and the viola really takes it to another level. Great work, guys!
--Eino
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I'm not a rave fan, but I'm impressed what you've done here! Hearing the first few piano chords is just.. chilling.
I really like how you've changed the first part after the tempo change into minor key. Try to make the chord at 01:33 a major chord. As the next part is in major key, that might make an awesome transition. Or not, but I hope you try it!
--Eino
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I think the lossy audio compression MySpace probably applies to the track is really harming the track. The violins especially sound really lossy. Trying to listen past that, I really like what you did with the strings - they're a great addition to the track.
--Eino
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Oh yes, I second the request. I've only played the Master System version. It has mostly the same score, although of course with different sounds. I think the Clock Tower track in the SMS version is not on the MD/Genesis soundtrack though - and that's definitely my favourite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emOlaElAmds
--Eino
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I agree, it's a great, if subtle, soundtrack. The geoscape music and the tactical battle music are wonderful electronic ambient, and possibly quite tricky to ReMix. But then there's also a good bit of rocking out in the aerial combat and briefing pieces, I recall. Note that the PSX version has rearranged music, which are definitely worth checking out.
--Eino
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Thank goodness there was SOMETHING you liked about our mix...
Hi BGC,
I must apologize. Thank you for posting the link to the link to the review guidelines. I have read them (believe it or not), but it's pretty embarrassing to see how I managed to break the very first one with that post. You're of course correct that what I posted was opinion, not fact. I have a strong opinion in the matter and I was ranting, and this was definitely the wrong place for it. I think I may made a similar comment in another review post, and I apologize for that as well. Finally, I wasn't very serious, but there was very little to indicate that and I now realize I that it was a pretty idiotic post.
On top of that I recognize that some or most of the "constructive criticism" bits in the post weren't very helpful, and come across as fluff thrown in to make the review seem valid. I should have let the ranting out and given a bit more thought on those.
Agreed.. I should thought better about pushing "submit reply", as this was a wrong place for such a rant. Frankly, I probably haven't even played enough of current generation games to come across a recent soundtrack I really really liked.*First of all, "a lot of the current game soundtracks suck" is your opinion, not fact. Try not to preach your opinion as absolutism.
Well, I'd love to attend VGL or a similar concert, and rest assured, I'd attend with an open mind. Looks like it's coming to Scandinavia in 2009. A trip to Sweden just might be feasible for me then.I hope you never attend a Video Games Live concert with that mentality.
Heh, a fair point. I knew what I meant but didn't know how to phrase it. A question I'm myself asking now is if I don't appreciate the style, how do I critique it fairly?Well, sounds like you're ending on a compliment of sorts, so I appreciate that at least. Although, if you don't even know what you're talking about regarding dynamics, how can you properly critique them?Anyhow, I've now listened to the piece quite a few times, and here's hopefully a better review:
I'd label this one "blockbuster action film soundtrack styled orchestral electronica". I don't generally like this style, but this is an accomplished mix that I find fairly enjoyable despite my reservations, and those who like the style should appreciate it.
The piece opens with an eerie synth, then drums and a bubbling synth bassline come in. I like the "cold ambient" sound of the synth, and the drums aren't being pummeled with 110% power right from the start, which leaves a bit of room for growth later on.
Brass and strings come in at 00:39 and the tension starts to build with additional breakbeat fading in. The brass part sounds good, and it builds up very well. I think the string part is a bit too busy this early - it detracts the attention from the building tension. I felt less would have been more in this particular section, although it's probably good to introduce the figure. Maybe a something like a plucked version of the figure would have been good though, that would have added more sense of growth later on.
The next section has no bass (just the less-is-more effect I meant before), keeps the breakbeat and adds a slightly harpsichord-like synth to a great effect. Then there's a similar figure like the previous string figure, only on lower strings, and here the feeling of build-up is tangible.
In the next part a "modern" beat enters. I really like the electric guitar -sounding thing on the background! The lower strings sound a bit out of rhythm with the beat. It's only slightly so (and doesn't happen with just the previous percussion), but it gives the impression that the styles don't integrate as well as they should. It seems to bother me a lot on every other listen, other times it sounds fine. There's a lot of big overlapping brass and string lines, and it starts to feel a bit much for me, but it does work and there is a sense of build-up throughout, which is very important. I like how the bass guitar (?) comes in just before the breakdown.
The breakdown is a refreshing breather after the build-up of the previous few minutes. I feel the piano is a bit busy in the breakdown - there certainly were a lot of notes before, so the part could afford to have a bit more "space" in it in my opinion. In any case, it's a good transition and I really like how it develops into double-time electronic beat very seamlessly. I definitely like those little pauses. I generally enjoy the last half of the mix quite a lot - it takes the tension built in the first part and goes wild with it.
I feel the timing issue again when the string part is added back in towards the rock section, although it's not as noticeable. Also for a brief while before the synth solo the guitar and strings/bass seem to compete against each other for the same space and they sort of steal thunder from each other. Nevertheless the idea of reintroducing the string/bass is good, and ties the ending to the beginning neatly.
Overall the structure of the piece works very well. It doesn't feel like a six minute track, and I mean that in a good way. (Not that I dislike long pieces in general). Also, I don't know the sources but the pieces are obviously arranged together very well, as it feels like just one cohesive piece.
Not a keeper for me for genre reasons, but nevertheless some very good work here!
--Eino
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Eino <3 Green Hill Zone, Eino <3 Green Hill Zone...
Yeeaaah, I guess, but especially I do think those two tracks segue nicely. It works well in the game too, as the second world has a very similar feel to the first one and this is reflected on the soundtrack as well.
--Eino
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I like the intro before the brass/strings stuff comes in, and I like the breakdown and what follows, especially 03:31 onwards, though the piano sounds a bit meandering for me. More economic playing would have yielded an even better effect. The boombastic soundtracky brass/strings just makes me feel I've heard it all a gargantuantazillion times before and is precisely the pestilence that is making a lot of the current game soundtracks suck, a-rantta-ta-rantta whine-a-whine! At the end, the strings/brass and the distorted guitar manage to negate each other and the part loses punch, until the synth soloing comes in.
Hmm, the structure dynamics (whatever those are) are pretty good I think - I wouldn't have thought it was as long as over six minutes. That's impressive for a collaboration of this kind.
--Eino
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This is definitely sounding fuller and warmer than your previous wips. Keep up the good work!
--Eino
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Good arrangement. Mostly the sounds aren't up to par. The good ones are the synth flute, and those lovely understated strings and pads at the beginning. I especially don't like the bass guitar.. But it's a charming track none the less, and I'll be keeping it.
--Eino
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Heh, a funny track. Pretty good sounds, no complaints from me. Try seguing the track with Green Hill Zone if you need a direction to go. Other stuff: have your bassline follow the original sequence, starting at 00:27 or 00:41. Also, the melody/synthline you introduce at 01:02 doesn't mesh with the melody - but I think the idea (I hear there) is good - work on it a bit more, try to find a good key for it. I like the title.
--Eino
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I like this! The lead instrument sure sounds the same from note to note, but the variations it plays on the original melody are great!
--Eino
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A solid rock piece, could imagine a bar band playing this one.. not quite blues, not quite funk, but fun stuff still. It's a bit stiff in my opinion, wish it would groove a bit more. Also, there's no release at any point, the lead/organ stuff is at the front the whole time. The track would have benefitted from a bit of "breathing room".
--Eino
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Heavily opinionated post ahead..
Just listeining to this now, I definitely remember a lot of these riffs, they're memorable and sound good. But this is not one of my favourites from the project. The reason is that it doesn't come together as a whole for me.
The acoustic guitar lick in the beginning is a great figure, it's memorable and incredibly effective, it sets the mood instantly. The piano/guitar figure at 00:28-00:37 is very powerful, and only grows each time it's repeated. 00:55-01:30 is a fantastic variation/counterpoint to that part. I really like the wood-sounding percussion there.
Another poster lauded the gated synth + choir part. I on the contrary really really dislike it.. my problem is that it feels like it's from a different piece completely. As itself it's not bad at all, but combined with the other material it just doesn't mesh. There's no sense of continuity and any tension that might be there is totally ruined with the premature fadeout of the repetition of the killer guitar figure that follows. Gneh.
Some of my favourite parts of the VotL project are in this track, but it doesn't rank very high as a whole. This piece is soundtracky in a very bad sense - it tries to sound big when it doesn't need to: super-reverby industrial-like percussion doesn't fit in, neither does the choir bit nor the delayed piano.. Also, it's meandering and it messes up it's potential. At it's best it reminds me of I Want You (She's So Heavy) by The Beatles, at it's worst I just want to forget it.
Your mileage may vary.
--Eino
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Link's Awakening.. true. That too. And the intro *is* great indeed.
--Eino
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Very solid, and pleasantly melodic. Certainly worth a listen!
--Eino
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Yeah, there should really be a stronger kick. It doesn't quite get going like it could. Oh, how cool release-tension changes could have been done. But anyhow, I enjoy this heaps. Very, very nice atmospheric texturing. The melodic stuff is a bit buried in there, but it's there.
--Eino
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It's a bit all over the place, isn't it? There's a lot of very cool sounds and combinations, but it doesn't progress too smoothly. I wish it did, I'd probably love it! Not quite a keeper as it is.
--Eino
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Not much to add. A decent effort, though not a keeper for me. Maybe it's the source material, but musically (so to speak) I don't enjoy this that much. On the other hand, a One Must Fall 2097 mix done in this style would kick ass.
--Eino
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There's definitely drive in this one.. I like the simplicity of the main melody/synth sequence and the beat, it goes far on the power of those. I like the minimalistic variations.
The vocal samples aren't that bad, they don't overpower the track and are pretty fitting.. but I can't say I really liked them either. I don't like the 01:20 bassline at all. It doesn't fit into the track. This piece could progress much better and much more could be done with the "minimalistic" elements.
--Eino
Sonic Advance 'Ice Mountain'
in Post Your Game ReMixes!
Posted
Oh yeah, I like this one a lot too.
--Eino