[[Album] Megaman & Bass]

Well, as M&B doesn't have very many mixes right now, so kudos to doing this one .

I know the sources well enough, but I'd post the sources in the thread somewhere for those that don't...

Groundman

Coldman

Now, listening to the Groundman's song, it sounds just like... well, Groundman's song. It's a neat arrangement, but that's just what it is, an arrangement, not a remix. If you plan on getting accepted on OC (I'm not sure, but it sounds like your plan according to your post) they want some more original interpretation of the source. Coldman, on the other hand sounds more like what they would look at in terms of arrangement vs remixing (perhaps a little too much so - read below for that).

The mixing on Groundman is very clean (which is good ), but the soundscape seems empty (which is a bad thing). You need something to fill the mid range better, and the bass needs some more attention as it's interesting but quiet right now. The use of the bass/piano is also very repetetive; my ears are quite tired of them by the end.

Now, about the Coldman song I said before that it feels more like a 'remix' than your other song. However, for a rave it doesn't have nearly enough power behind it. The bass drum is weak; it needs some more 'oomph' behind it (Listen to bLiNd's works to get an idea of what I'm talking about). The pads used drone on throughout the piece. Make them at least sound more interesting using EQ fluxuations or something; their dry and uninteresting right now.

The source takes some time to come in. Now, I'm totally for saving the source, except there isn't enough happening before it to keep me happy (not to mention that it disappears again right after). Obviously the harmonies from the source are playing, but it sounds like it has the opposite problem Groundman has - it doesn't sound enough like the original source.

Now, for both the songs, they sound too repetative right now. The use of the instrumentation is also stale throughout the two songs, too, so I'd look into changing up how things are used throughout both the songs.

These aren't terrible mixes, for sure - You've got a nack on the production quality. It's just some of the 'remixing' elements that your lacking at the moment, so I'd go out and listen to some of the remixes on this site, listen to some of the WIP music and read the critiques given to help you with your own music .

Good luck with remixing the M&B soundtrack - it had some gems in there that we're sorely missing!

[switching to a trackball mouse]

I had to use a trackball for my classes in recording (as the teacher swore by them), and I've got to say that they're not bad. I can understand the fear of them, but give them a few days practice and you'll be just fine.

It hasn't convinced me to make the switch quite yet, but I'm thinking about it (first I need a computer that doesn't randomly mute itself and become unusable at the most inconvinient times... priorities, you know ).

[OCR01816 - Mega Man 3 "Magnet Missiles"]

I love music where it really sounds like the performers were having a lot of fun playing it. I can just imagine the smiles on everyone's face as they were playing this .

Megaman 3 has slowed down in recent years (most of the remixes are really pre-1000 mixes...), so it's great to get something that's more 'up-to-date' with OCR with this game. The guitar/trombone combo is a tasty mix that I've never heard before and it works great!

The organ is sweet, too

Nice one, guys!

[MM3 Sparkman - 'cause MM3 doesn't get enough love here...]

As far as getting the bass sound you want, you can try layering another drum over the top of this one with a different velocity, or use a combination of drum sounds that you like to get one good sound. That's what I do most often when I can't get the exact sound I want. Another thing is to draw the bass drum out of the kit into it's own track, then you can apply effects to just the bass drum without messing with the whole set.

Yup, I've done those things already and still having the whole bass drum issue. I think I just need to look harder for a good sound - I haven't looked everywhere yet

It's not an issue of how to use the sample after I get a good bassy drum, it's simply finding the damn sample... So far in my searches the drum either has a pitch (which ruins EVERYTHING) or isn't useful for what I need to make it better. I just don't like 'sample sifting' very much (but I guess I've got to do it ).

[OHC - One hour compos start again!]

I'm always surprised by the silent posters that don't join us in IRC <3

I'm one of those silent posters... I've gotta say, I can't ever get the damn IRC to work... not to mention that I share my internet, so people generally are hovering over my back waiting for me to finish, anyway ...

I'll get that whole 'IRC' thing figured out someday and try to join you all...

[There Will Be Brawl]

May I add that the soundtrack for this is very, VERY sweet?

[Mega Man 2 - Wily 1 -- For You - Vox Mix]

Yes, I'm still on the 'This is a f*cking great song!!' train... but I personally feel the key change could've been done better, there (Ducking as people throw tomatoes at me )

Now I'm not saying get rid of the key change... the preparation for it is just too aggressive to my ear. I also hear the four repetitions as lingering, like AJ-enova said earlier.

I have a suggestion to fix both 'problems' at once - Don't change the key until after the first two repetitions of the chorus instrumental, then hit us with the key change exactly when the singing for the chorus occurs. It'll make the section more interesting AND it'll transition the key change better (if it's by half step, it's often good to jump into it suddenly - it gives an accent to the piece).

Again, great song... Finish it already!

[How long has it taken you to musically get where you are today?]

I feel slightly responsible for this break from the topic, so I'll try to wrap it up...

Mozart wrote his first opera at the age of 12. However, if he we're to post on this forum at the time, he'd say, "I've been playing the violin for nine years and the piano for seven. I've been listening to the best musicians in the world for my entire life. I've been writing my own compositions for 6 years, so I decided to give operatic writing a try."...

Point is like Meteo Xavier said; if your talented, great! It still takes time and work to develop that talent, though.

Can't say anything for the disabled that have some special ability to instantly understand something... They're called 'Idiot Savants' (that's the real term for them), due to their ability to perform a single task so well, yet completely lack in every other area. Bad trade off, in my opinion...

[How long has it taken you to musically get where you are today?]

I'm not a David Mamet fan at all, but his credo is mine: "There is no such thing as talent, only hard work." And i can personally attest to this.

I loved your response to this, McVaffe... It's obviously not wrong, it just makes me want to change the quote to...

There is no such thing as talent for normal people, only hard work (unless you either are talented or have a strange disability that gives you superpowers!).

lol... Sorry, had to add that in.

[MM3 Sparkman - 'cause MM3 doesn't get enough love here...]

Yes, Backup = good, for sure... I've got 3 backup versions right now, for the very reason given (going back and revamping the EQ a bunch). It's good advice, going back from scratch and EQ'ing it, the only thing is that I've already done that twice . Third time lucky, I guess.

I agree completely with the bass drum (as previous posts in here will attest to), but the more 'boomy' basses create a distinct mud that I can't seem to get around. I'm still looking into it (but if you use Reason and are thinking of a particular drum sound, let me know and I'll see if it fits ).

When you say the bass is 'weak', do you mean the sample itself or that there is a lack of bass? If it's the latter, then I don't hear what your hearing (but if it's the former, then if a saw wave is weak, then this is, for sure). If it's a sample problem, then I'll sub it, anyway, as I personally want to see how far I can go with samples straight from the box (If I could get posted with THAT, imagine what I'll do with new plugins ).

Meh, the detuning is an easy fix; I've just been lazy.

Thanks for the lead suggestions; I'll experiment with that.

Once again, I'm looking into it all, and thanks .

Edit: I just read what you were talking about with the bass drum and the INTRO. I think I can add the bass there without a problem. The snare taking away from the bass... I thought I fixed the snare problem... but I guess when I exported it the quality was reduced. I'll fix that in my next post, for sure. I was rushed earlier and couldn't read you post properly earlier .

[MM3 Sparkman - 'cause MM3 doesn't get enough love here...]

Ok, so now that I look at my older rendition (e.g. v1.5) I realize that I was being retarded by saying there was no clipping... It was pretty bad, in reality.

I've hopefully fixed all the EQ problems for good in this one (although it's still loud - if that's really a problem, let me know and I'll tone it down ).

I'm hoping the lead is a bit less annoying than before, as I've toned the highs & lows down and the mids up quite a bit. It seems to fill the soundscape much better now, due to that.

At 2:06 I've made some subtle changes to make that part stick out a little better

As for the bass drums... I may leave them as they are. The clean beat sets the pace better than a wet drum. I may change it anyway though

http://www.box.net/shared/8f57q3ixy7

Comments are appreciated!

[A discussion on 5/4 time]

lol.

What can I say, it's funny when people do stupid things. It's even funnier when they don't know that they're doing them.

[How long has it taken you to musically get where you are today?]

I recall there being be a "my first song" thread somewhere that I should post the aforementioned song in.

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13974

There, it's over a year old, but it's still there. It'd be funny if that was revived due to this thread .

[MM3 Sparkman - 'cause MM3 doesn't get enough love here...]

I selfishly want more boom in your kick. Personal preference. BOOM BOOM!

Ha, it's not selfish - I want more, too... I'm still looking for a bass with more 'oomph', but what I've found (so far) is that they're muddying the mix too much. I'm workin' on it, though .

I'm also goin' to try to dull the high end EQ of the whole song - I just found out that the mastering settings I have automatically raises the high end of the whole thing... I hope that'll help. It seems that it bothers everyone, here, and I've slowly been trying to address it...

I think I turned the volume up a bit too loud, too, so it'll lose about a decibal for the sake of your ears.

As for the lack of dynamic contrasts, I don't really want to lose momentum at all (although that change at 2:06 may be a bit static, I admit), so I can only hope it doesn't affect my chances too much.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Software Piracy]

In the case of learning institutions, this means either providing necessary software to students, providing heavy discounts (bringing their price down to something similar to a textbook), or making labs accessible.

To your first two comments, often there are places (perfectly legal, by the way) that really DO give excellent discounts for college students. I didn't have the finances even for this, sadly, or I just didn't feel like investigating (until after I graduated... which was too late)... probably the latter, to be honest.

Check this out, for example...

http://www.academicsuperstore.com/category/Software/Music/278243

As to making labs accessible... well, like I said, I simply worked at one so I could have access to it all the time .

[How long has it taken you to musically get where you are today?]

I was reading some of the WIP forums today and found one that really caught my eye. He was working on some music when he realized that it really wasn't up to OC's standards. He's new, but he realized just how far up the ladder OC's standards were and was tempted to give up right there... Fortunately he isn't giving up (I don't think), but think about new musicians coming to this site... They get excited about writing music, then realize how far the remixes posted at OCR really are and give up.

They don't realize that it takes years to get where you remixers have gotten.

So the real question is how long has it taken YOU to get where you've gotten musically? It'll be a very enlightening thread for the new people at OCR, and it'll help them guage themselves on a better (or more accurate) scale.

To start it off, I've been involved in music for my whole life, and formaly involved for over ten years, playing piano then writing music. I've been writing music for the midi interface for 9 years, studying music theory for 7 years, writing music by hand for 5 years and have been working on using samples and production for the past year (I think my first song on Reason was finished in December 31st 2007).

If taken seriously, this thread can help a lot of prospective musicians get the idea that this isn't an overnight deal for ANYBODY... but it's always worth it at the end.

[Software Piracy]

It admittedly sucks needing a particular program to finish work for school... My two (sad) solutions at school was either sleeping at the school (which I did many, MANY times), as the buses stopped at 10PM, or work at the labs so I have special access to the computers at any time I need... Of course, these are not really reasonable options for most of you (e.g. you probably have some sort of life, unlike I did at school), so I can see where this whole software piracy is a big concern for education.

But there are too many students. The simple solution is just to limit class sizes.

I'd hate to see it in a college, but limiting the class sizes would fix a lot when it comes to availability for the students. If the classes fill up often enough, the school should expand and buy more equipment, as it is obviously an area that makes them money

Now, I personally am indifferent if somebody is pirating or not, but I try not to when I can help it. If it is an emergency I may get it and get rid of it after I'm done (somebody needs a score the next week and I don't have the same program s/he does, for example), or get it then buy the program when I have the finances to do so (if I really liked the program), but I feel that if you want your music to be heard or go public it's just better to own what you have.

...It feels better, anyway.

[Mario UnderGround Theme Remix]

A longer source kinda intimidates me, I think 'Oh god what am I gonna do with all this.'

Well, I'm gonna give you another way to look at it... If I'm using a shorter source, I'm thinking 'Holy shit! How the hell am I gonna keep everyone's interest for a considerable amount of time with a 5 second source without getting too liberal?!?'.

It reminds me of a bet that I made with my brother when I (stupidly) said I could make a remix out of anything, and he gave me the damn hammer theme from Donkey Kong (it's even shorter than the starman theme...). I managed to get ~1:24 out of it without it getting too boring, but even that was DAMN hard...

I have minimal formal music theory knowledge, and I seem to be doing fine (shut up, Gario ).

Formal musical knowledge helps, I'll admit, but like Rozo so kindly pointed out you can make do without it (in fact, most composers do without any problem... and that's straight from this horses mouth '~' ). The only thing I suggest is to listen, listen and listen to all sorts of music. When listening, take note of things you like and don't like. In other words, listening to music critically will make you a better musician (even if you don't ever touch music theory - all theory does it label what you hear, anyway!).

It also takes practice and dedication in order to get better. Let me clue you in on something... I sucked when I started out. Whereas you actually know what the best sounds like, I didn't know about OCR (or even VGmusic)... your lucky, you've got a reference (In my noobish nature, I didn't and thought I was the shit). I made this when I was first leaning MIDI...

http://www.box.net/shared/0a9on45cfo

It's terrible (Clipping? What clipping??). Had some nice things, but compared to the best (as your comparing), it sucks. Move 6 years into the future, I made this...

http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/CTOceanPalace.mid

It's much better, and there are few midi writers that can match what I can do (or used to - I lost my program over a year ago ).

The point is, it took me YEARS to learn anything about midi music, and I'm sure it'll take me years more to learn the nuances of production and sampling. It's never an easy process, but everyone has done it - In fact, I'm gonna open up a thread asking how long it has taken remixers here to get where they've gotten. You'd be surprised how long it can take.

I hope to hear more from you in the future

[Extremely Epic/Orchestra Track "Miles Away"]

Where the hell did you get those numbers? If you're guessing, you're WAY off.

I got it from a faculty member from my old university. That was the price of his Piano Concerto.

By the way, that isn't per minute... that's per minute OF MUSIC. Thus, if your piece is 5 minutes long it'll run about 2000-5000$, even if it takes an hour to get it recorded (His was 45 minutes... that's a lot of money, right there).

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Edit: Ya, you've got it right

[ORC 117 - March Edition]

Well, this is interesting, people are all saying it sounds like a different source...

The chord structure used is pretty common, so everyone's gonna link that to the most salient tune they can think of

It's only natural... the real question is why the hell did I think Golden Sun when there was a much more popular source to link it to? I'll probably never know...

[Extremely Epic/Orchestra Track "Miles Away"]

I wanna hire an orchestra band.

Well, if you want an orchestra to play your music, it costs around 400-1000$ per minute of score. It'll increase the value of the score, for sure, but... well if you've got that kind of money to toss around, let me in on it

Just thought I'd throw that out for you

[MM3 Sparkman - 'cause MM3 doesn't get enough love here...]

I hate bumping my own thread, but it's gotta be done, as I've got another update for you all!

http://www.box.net/shared/ypm4og6258

I've fixed all clipping problems, beefed out the bass and drums one more time and got all the levels pretty high without the sound dropping out (about as high as Blind gets his stuff... well, maybe not THAT high). I've got this really sounding like I've wanted it now.

I believe this is good enough for ORC. I will give you all a week to tell me I'm wrong, or tell me something is wrong with it. Unfortunately, I couldn't get a hold of Zircon, so I'll harass another J for an opinion. I'm gonna submit this otherwise

Feedback is still wanted, though, so help me out! Thanks for the help you all have given, too!

[Sonic 3 - Angel Island Zone Remix]

I've kept an eye on this one since I commented on it a while back, and it's improved quite a bit. You've made it much louder and the soundscape fills out much nicer than before. The variations you've added are great, too.

Now, as I know you want a judge to look at this, expect these two critiques - Your lead has no variation at all (as it never changes what sample you use throughout the entire track), and the samples are of the low-quality type. As Rozo said, OCR is quite elitist (and for the better, in my opinion), so if there's a seam in the piece they will rip it wide open in front of your eyes.

Now, IMO because all of the synths you use serve the same purpose throughout the entire thing (the lead sample is always the lead, the texture sample is always the texture, etc.), the piece end up still sounding a bit stale at the end to my ear. Tinker with the idea of changing what samples do what. Use the lead as a quieter texture while the little bass part takes on the source melody for a while. Let the pads take the bassline for a while as the bass does some special bits on it's own. These are just ideas for you to see what I mean. When the samples return to their original purposes it'll sound fresh and interesting again.

Good luck with the judges!

[Donkey Kong Country 2 'Dance of the Zinger']

Woa! You really WERE paying attention to this thread! Excellent!

Alright, here's the breakdown of this... Change the texture that comes in at 0:25 to E. Don't ask questions, just do it. It'll fix quite a bit with the 'wrong note' problem.

That bass sound clashes with the rest of the mix. I don't know how the thing is set, so I can't say exactly where you should put it. It needs to move two whole steps down (or four semitones) in order to work with the E key that I'm suggesting.

At 2:02 the theme hits a very wrong note. It should be a minor third (four semitones) above where it hits, and at 2:05 it should go up the same amount. You fix the note later in the song, so fix it here .

The reverse cymbal is cool at 2:06 - 2:08, but for the genre I'd recommend making the release a lot shorter (it'll sound like the end of it 'clipped off' rather than letting it resonate).

Now that I've finished nit picking, I'll give an overview...

The idea you have is emerging from this song more than the last WIP, but it still isn't there yet. At the moment, it is still far too repetetive and the keys are way off. You've dramatically improved the production quality, but now the mix is too quiet. I'll use a piece of advice Rozovian always gives... "Put your music up there with other current OCR mixes and see if your's sticks out.". You'll notice that the quality of instruments is still quite under the standards, and the mix is very VERY quiet compared to theirs. Now I know that you understand you cannot simply turn up the volume, 'cause you clipping problem will return. I'm still trying to perfect the whole sound level problem myself, so I can't help you much there (Sorry!).

If you want to continue this piece, make the changes I recommended above, then see if you can change the textures, vary them, do whatever it takes to make the song less repetetive. Your solos at the end really should stay in the same key at the piece starts in. Right now they meander without direction and out of key (My brother used to do the same thing on his guitar when soloing...), so change the solos so they are in key. If you don't know what I'm talking about with the whole 'key' thing... then look it up in Wikipedia .

I'd personally recommend working on more than one piece here. You've been chewing on this one for almost a year - It's like spashing in a pond when you could be swimming in a lake. If you want to fix and finish this song, fine, but I recommend moving to a new song, at the same time. Post here and we'll help you out.

Good luck!

[ORC 117 - March Edition]

Oh, well THAT submission made it obvious just64helpin... lol. Clever.

You know, I actually thought you guys we're talking about the Golden Sun music. That's what came to mind, for me .

Well, my submission's up. I just hope it's not too liberal for you all... I dissected the source and put pieces of it throughout for you, so it's still there .