Gario
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Posts posted by Gario
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i have no idea what you're saying when you mean canon, but the harpsichord was the only thing that inspired the use of the name Bach in the title. plus i really didnt know how else to name it anyways
Ah, the Harpsichord. That would've been my second 'Bach' guess. A canon is a technique where one voice will start, then a few bars later another voice with the same melodic material enters, then another, etc for as long as you want. Towards the middle/end of the song you have something that resembles that. Of course, the counterpoint is supposed to be correct for a proper canon, but... well welcome to the 21st century
As for the chords, it takes practice and a whole lot of critical listening to other music that you like to get the hang of that. Your ears just need time to develop what sounds right and what sounds wrong, then chord placement will come naturally. It can take years to develop, though, so be patient!
Good luck!
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I THINK I get what you were going for - a canon/techno mix of Tetris (Techno for Neo - Canon for Bach).
The biggest problem is that your writing involves so many wrong chords and clashes that it hurts. Listen to to the chords you use against the melodies. They don't work. At all. Holding over a single note can SOMETIMES work for a touch of color, but an entire chord is overkill. Please do something harmonically that works, or knock out the harpsichord-y harmony in the background entirely (I'm leaning towards the latter, here).
Actually, some of the canons you use are sort of interesting, and without the harmonies may sound pretty neat, and if harmonized properly could lead to some impressive chords. Those harmonies ruin the effect, however. I'd actually like to hear a version without those harmonies in order to have a clearer idea as to what you've got, there.
I agree with Rozovian that this needs more bass. It's funny that I want you to single out those solo 'clashes' in the latter part of the song and Rozovian is correcting you for it. I'm not saying they're great, right now; I just want to hear them clearer 'cause they've perked my interest
Oh, the slowdown at the end is pretty cool. I like that part
So, all in all, this needs work - but that's ok. Nobody is perfect when they're starting out. Don't sub this to OC though - the J's WILL destroy it beyond recognition... (It's their job, so don't blame them)
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Funny, it looks like we've meandered around this forum without addressing the original question that well... What makes old-school 2d RPGs like FFVI stand out as great?
I agree with your point, dude, so I'm trying to address both 2-D and 3-D games equally, here (give them 3-D games some love), but at the same time, address 2-D games, as well.I don't think 2-D RPG's really need to be separated out from RPG's in general.There are a few factors that can help older games stand out...
1. Are there nostalgic forces that drive us to play them again?
Sometimes, it has nothing to do with how great the game is (or was). I mean, a guilty pleasure of mine is to whip out the ol' Nintendo and play Amagon... Believe me, if you want a frustrating and terrible game, that is it. However, there is a guilty pleasure playing and imagining how frustrated my older brothers would get playing that thing. It's a sweet, cherished memory of mine that gives me enjoyment that has nothing to do with the games greatness. Seriously, this is a factor to consider. If you like something for it's nostalgic value, then disregard it when trying to approach the question objectively...
2. How well did they use their resources for their time? Were they innovative, or simply using the older resources to the best of their abilities?
Think about it. It's obviously not fair to compare FFVII to the original FF, simply because they both used different platforms with different capabilities. Both are, from a technical point of view, astounding pieces of work due to the breakthroughs they caused during their time. The original FF was the most extensive RPG on the NES console at the time and allowed for a customization level unheard of (naming all four of your characters and choosing who they are? WOW!!). FFVII was one of the first jumps into the 3d RPG era, so it was mind boggling when you first played it (especially their FMV's - which are terrible by todays standard, but great for the time).
On the other hand, there are games like FFVI, where it may not have technically done anything new, but did take the older ideas to their farthest limits, creating a very polished game in the end.
3. How well did everything integrate and make a cohesive experience?
I mentioned this before, and I'll mention it again. Everything must be at the same level of mastery. If the music and the music, graphics and gameplay are awesome, but the story is terrible, it'll bring the entire game down (Think Legend of Mana, here - who would dare say that it did the series justice? Wonderful music, graphics and gameplay, but the lack of a cohesive story was unforgivable...). If every element is mediocre, the game will be mediocre. If most of the elements are great, but one element is terrible, the entire game will feel pretty terrible, overall. So many games suffer from this affliction, and move on into obscurity...
4. How timeless is the experience?
Granted, this may be subject to opinion, but seriously, how many people will ever forget when Aerith died in FFVII? That moment in that game is unforgettable, and is, in fact one of the great moments of video game history. Would moments in a game affect the youth in the future the same way it affected us in the past? If so, then you've probably got a classic in you hands
As you want to make something on RPG maker, all of these ideas apply to old 2-D RPGs and newer 3-D RPGs equally, so take what you need from this.
I hope this gives pretty clear insight on the older RPG tradition and why people still play some of them today (and is quite a bit of overkill to your first post, but probably answers what I look for in a game quite comprehensively
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What can I say; that pretty much sums up Chrono Cross right there...Quote:Originally Posted by LuketheXjesse
I'm going to go ahead and say that that's the ONLY flaw that game has.
Concur'd. Shrink the number of PCs down to a reasonable level (as in, less than 10) and give the remainder a bunch of double/triple tech skills, and that game would have been damn near perfect. (Cue "zomg but it wasn't Chrono Trigger 2!")
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I know this thread is using FFVI as a "template" of sorts, but, not to be a killjoy, I thought the idea of having SO MANY playable characters spread everything way too thin, and made many of their stories and their depth of character somewhat shallow.
You know, I sort of agree. They're pretty well developed, for how many there are, though. I think Chrono Cross is an even better example of the 'quantity over quality' theme. Yes, too many can hurt more than help, keeping it down to 6 - 8 isn't a bad idea.
Rule of thumb - Every 4 hours of game play can afford another character. That's enough time to develop each of them.
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Just remembered something...
No modern day references. This is one thing that bugged me about Working Designs. In the middle of their games like Lunar, you get references to modern day people or happenings. Nothing breaks an RPG game's fantasy atmosphere like having a reference to real-world events in some sad attempt to be funny.
Leave them out, don't even think off adding them, and forget that such immersion-breaking "humor" exists. Your game will be better for it.
I think the problem with real life references is that it's an uncomfortable way to 'break the 4th wall'. It is talking to the players rather than the character, and that breaks the mood of the entire game for a split second. Hey, sometimes it works (the consistant use of 'Biggs and Wedge' in the FF games is pretty neat - even though it's a reference to the Star Wars franchise), but generally it breaks the mood the game tries so hard to set up.
Personally, though, I'd like to play a game that intentionally breaks the 4th wall and really integrates the break into the story effectively. It'd be pretty insane (Eternal Darkness did it to some extent, but that was integrated into the mechanics, not the story), but would certainly mess with the players mind.
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Very nice, here. I think the reason this wasn't mixed for such a long time was because of the sources real lack of material (it repeats so much before developing, then moves on to a short extra phrase before going back to repeating other things). Your mix, however, has enough variety to keep me happy
It doesn't sound finished, obviously, but it kicks some DnB ass, right now!
Nice work, here - hope to see it on OC soon!
Edit:
The source isn't that repetitive. It had at least three different segments.Not including the intro, I hear it as A A' A A' A'' A' B A' - Repeat... Pretty repetitive, if you ask me... of course, the A' could be a B, then it's A B A B A' B C B... still...
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I've played quite a few RPGs, and I've learned a lot as to what makes one good and another mediocre. Story, memorable characters, MUSIC, perfect villians, etc. are all important, for sure. I have found, however, that any single element, even if done perfectly, will not save the game unless everything else is done very well. Everything needs to be working in harmony with everything else - think of the operas of Wagner. The thing that made them so incredible was that every element was interconnected in some way or another. The story was portrayed through the acting and music very well, the music accented the acting and the story perfectly, and the acting had a synergy with the story and music that is hard to describe.
Look at FFVI, now. The characters push the story perfectly, the music accented the characters and story with the leitmotifs and wonderful sound, and the story was very well constructed. I assure you that if ANY of those elements were misplaced in any way, everything would just fall apart. It requires everything to be working in perfect harmony.
If your up to doing this, I'd love to see the final product (hell, if your really serious about it, I'd love to help
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It's probably due to the quality of Youtube, but your version actually sounds much, much cleaner than the original. Very nice.
Yes, it sounds like you took some of the sounds straight from the source, but there are really no 'rules' for something like this, so do what you've gotta do to make it sound great.
I like the feel of this. It's very... chill. It has a nice beat, nothing too complicated. Your use of musical space is good.
The only thing that's odd is your ending. It sort of just... ends. I understand, of course; with a song like this it's hard to make a proper ending.
If you're just working on production things then I'd call this piece done, here. Very well done
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How do you know that, Snappleman? Really, it's an old program, but it could be that he hasn't taken the time to seriously learn it, even though he had it for a few years (although posting that it's a new piece of software sort of rules that out). He could've found it off of ebay or something, as well.
Besides, if he illegally downloaded it, wouldn't that have been stupid? He should've gotten the latest version with full access to help files and tech support if he was doing that (I'm sure there are cracks for that, anyhow). I'm not supporting illegal downloading, I'm just saying if he was downloading illegally, then why would he bother with older outdated crap?
Just because it's old doesn't quite make it an illegal copy... I'm not naive, it's just silly to make the worst out of a situation based on so little evidence.
...and sorry, SlyGeN, I don't know anything about that particular DAW.
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Silver Surfer IMO had the best quality music for the NES.
I second that.
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...and so is this. It's pleasant. I'm sure your girlfriend appreciates it! I didn't expect the strings, and in this particular case, it detracted from the piano slightly (your other music has pretty good accompaniment, though).
On a piano, you should play around with your dynamics... it's why we call it a 'piano', after all... it's one of the few things a piano can do that no other instrument can do quite as well.
The left hand has something I like to call 'The Lazy Hand Syndrome' (like the name?). It plays harmony and arpeggios, and that's it
... Pretty, but sometimes I feel the left hand tends to get left out. I know the syndrome well, because if I improv on the piano, it tends to do the same thing...Very nice; I'm sure with some experience you'll become a very good composer. I wish you the best!
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Well, I loved this song before, but with the changes you've made, it's become amazing. Period.
Using Wily at the beginning like that was a stroke of genius. Very catchy, and it brought us into the music much better than before. You also don't mess around here, either; you just hit us with the ringing sound that I oh so love. Beautiful.
I really can hear the difference in the counterpoint you've used. It's a whole load better sounding to me (and 'definitely slightly better' to you... what ever that means
). It sounds much more interesting.Disregard whatever I said about the EQing - it really needs the EQ you've got right now to give it that authentic flavor.
The break at 4:47... hmm, I thought it was good before, but now that I hear it, it IS slightly abrupt. I think it's just the sudden change in the levels, albiet slight. That rhythm could be brought down, or could possibly be brought in at 4:54, after the part repeats once. Perhaps a small bit of tinkering is needed...
From 6:10 on, it sounds like your ending the piece right there. For that purpose, it's great as it is... however, if you want to add to your medley here, then that is probably not the sound your going for. Personally, I agree with Willrock in that you should submit this to OC ASAP... but the entire medley won't be accepted due to their terms, so you can leave the ending on this one, put it up here at OC and finish the some for your own album.
Great piece of music here, I'm glad you've updated it for us!
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So... ya. What's the source? If it's Terra's theme again, I can't tell, right now...
I can't recognize the source at all in this... If you could post it, that'll be helpful. Even still, if what Rozo said was true, then I probably won't recognize it anyway - that's what happens when you use the harmonies and structure of a piece without using the melodies. I'm not against that, entirely, either; it just needs to be blended into other techniques (source melody w/ different harmonies, source melody used AS the harmony, etc. etc.).
Peaceful and relaxing... you've got that down, all right. The voices do clash, like Rozovian mentioned. If you want to keep them, try turning the delay down (or off, even), turning them down and lowering the mids in the EQ. It'll clash a whole lot less with the rest of the music.
Past the first 30 seconds, it starts to get repetitious. You need to change it up a little (harmonically, especially). The texture is nice, but it needs to change every once in a while, too. Listen to other OC remixes - they remain in the same genre (most of the time, anyway), but they still keep some variety in their remix. Try to do the same, here
The mix is pretty muddy... All of your instruments are in the same middle range. You'd need to replace some instruments (or give them a little less reverb in some cases) or use some EQing to use more highs and lows.
As for the rhythms... This can work without them, if you really want to go that route, but it does require some sort of percussive instrument to strike out of the delays. People can easily get lost in a mix like this.
I worked really hard for this remixYou don't need to tell us - we generally do work hard on any remix we do. Unfortunately, when you say this it implies 'Don't bash me too much in your critiques - I don't like criticism'. If you need to hear criticisms, we'll give them to you regardless... and if someone is being malicious they may just trash it just because. Saying that will not get you anywhere (and may even incite some nasty comments), so I'd keep that to yourself, in general.
Just lettin' you know
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What are you talking about, there? When writing midi it's all about making multiple patterns and tracks...As for the one pattern thing, I'm used to it because that's how midis are written, though I don't have any clue how to use patterns, not sure if I intend to try either.
Unless HoboKa has the IRC log, then generally in the WIP forum he wants to hear the 'long story', not the 'this sucks' version. It's not that helpful ('course, if he did have the log, then this would be a pointless post, anyhow)... At least post some comments from the log.check the IRC log... long story short, this sucks.Edit: Note that I said patterns AND tracks... I meant both
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Even though this is an old, old WIP, the OP bumped it... a few months ago, but still, he may be paying attention, and I wanted to review this one, anyhow, so here I go (Ironic that I just gave some flack to people reviewing old mixes a few days ago, yet here I am)...
It's funny, I actually posted a WIP of this very song back when this was originally posted... and it was terrible, by the way. Maybe I'll re-do it completely sometime soon...
The main thing that irks me is how bi-tonal this whole thing sounds. The texture does not go with the source material at all. Please move the texture so it fits with the material better. The same can be said about the bass drum sound you use - it's much like a tom in that it can be tunes, as well. Make it fit the music better.
The old posts still hold, by the way, so even though they are over half a year old, they still hold (production, arrangement, etc.).
Really, the main reason I'm posting here is simply because I wanted to give feedback back when I heard this last April, but I was too busy at the time. If your still out there, give us a ring, here
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Thanks for clearing up the scale issue. Actually, it sounds like the Hungarian scale, except I think that has a raised 7th, as well
I don't mean shit-face drunk; I mean just enough to let your subconcious ride shot-gun and start chucking out ideas.lol, I guess we heard you wrong, there. I've heard that it works for some people to do things like that, but I'm sadly not one of em'. If I'm not fully aware of myself when writing, I create trash. Not saying that's true for everyone, however.
I'm dead serious about singing what's in your head to yourself. It's a 'middle man' approach that almost completely gets rid of the 'guess and check' process, if done well. Think of what you want, hear it in your head, then sing it to yourself out loud. This gives your ear an auditory memory of what you want and it'll make inputting it into your music much easier. Also, while inputting the music into sonar, sing what your putting into the program to yourself. You'd be surprised at how often you catch yourself putting in the wrong notes, saving you some listening time. With practice, it'll become second nature. I must also emphasize that anyone can do this with practice; it's not about the type of voice you have or being pretty, it's about actually hearing the tunes without needing a keyboard or other instrument.I hear things in my head first, then I write them out, and they're never what I hear in my head.Don't be surprised when you start singing to yourself in public and people stare at you like a madman; it's addicting and when you start, you can't stop
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Heh, I wasn't gonna say anything about the date, there; I thought people would catch on...
To those that are still coming here, here's some general advice. Look at the date of the last post. If it's an old thread (like this one was), I'd leave it alone, in general. The remixer probably isn't paying attention to it anymore, and the thread will get bumped to the top of the chart (like my post will do here in a second
), confusing those trying to critique WIPs... It's best to leave these things alone.Since this thread is already at the top of the page, I'm going to indulge myself and point out how ironic and useless your posting this was.Edit: So this doesn't pop to the top again, I'm using an edit, here. I'm just gonna clarify that I was emphasizing Rozovian point, and this was at the top when I posted, already. This thing's been getting a lot of attention, so I figured I'd try to help him steer people away from it, is all.
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I actually hear the notes in my head before even thinking about where they are on the keyboard.
Hey, try singing parts to yourself before writing (or even while your writing). That's how I get my ideas. I'm no singer, really, but it really helps when you sing vs imagining the notes. It's also more fun
I'm at a 'now what' place in this, where what I need to decide is what I like, what I don't like, and (mostly) where to go as far as development.I'm noticing that this is your biggest hurdle right now. Personally, if it's really difficult for you to move on, then I say move on. I mean to another piece, here. I've been in this rut before, and sometimes it's best to move to something else. Often, ideas about your old music will generate from new mixes, or when your skill develops. Don't give up on something, just give it a break.
Compose while you're intoxicated if you find that you can't think of anything good.Statistically speaking, here, you won't. Seriously, it comes out to around 99% junk and 1% sweetness... or so I hear, anyway. I can't tell from experience. I'm sure that composing while drunk is fun, though, so if you'd like try it and tell me how it goes
BTW, I've got a quick question, here. What is a Spanish Phrygian chord/scale? I've heard a long time ago in passing that it was something like a open 5th with a 7b and 9b above, but when it comes to chord labels like that, I'm terrible. Thx.
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Nutritious is a good OC remixer, so if he critiques a mix, it generally means it's worth critiquing in the first place. That's good, yeah?
Obviously, with all of us hammering your song, you can take crits as they are - something to help you. It's always nice to have a remixer come in and give feedback, since they've gone through the J's before
I agree with him on the panning; it's too extreme when you use it. We need some more centering in the mix, else it scares people away. Use panning - it's a great tool - just not to the extreme that it is used. I didn't hear it before 'cause my headphones were set to 'Mono'
...It's up to you whether you want to continue on this song or move onto more material.My take on starting many new projects... well, it depends on what you feel you need to work on. If it's the actual 'arrangement' portion, then starting many new mixes will indeed help much more than beating on a single one down. On the other hand, if your looking at working on production then perfecting a single piece would be much better practice. Most new people do need to work on arrangement before production, so I see what Nutritious was saying here. I personally would recommend the middle road here - work on new music (for the arrangement value) while perfecting a single piece of your choice. The best of both worlds, right? Also, it sometimes helps to step away from a piece for a while and come back, if ideas aren't coming for you
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This is sounding a whole lot better, man! Seriously!
This is beginning to have an energy behind it that I can't quite describe... except the ending... *coughcopeoutcough*
Really, I'm glad Hoboka got on my case about the dissonance, 'cause when you changed the swells around, it came together really, really well. The added harmony also fits perfectly, as well. It fills the soundscape much better now (which was something that bothered me about this for a while). Nice changes there
I don't feel it loses an edge when the bass moves up, but I'll tell you right now, don't move it farther down. If you move the swells down, the overtones will muddy the entire mix, sending it all to hell. Be careful with bass instruments - if they're too low or loud, the overtones will create a 'sonic dissonance' (made up term - dissonance that isn't 'written' but can be heard) that you won't be able to fix.
At 1:11, the melody is still very off.
I've made comments about this part before, so those comments still hold.The lead at 1:10 is off. Move the whole thing up a perfect 4th, to the same notes as the next part. If you need some variety, mess with something else (like the timbre), not the notes in this case. It leaps around from the correctly pitched tune to the incorrectly pitched tune, back and forth for a while. I'd recommend shortening this to a single repetition and move on.Yes, the ending is crap right now, and you know it. Look at the new harmony instrument you've added - you can put an emphasis on it (or another instrument) to create a change in texture. When you move on with this, try not to move into your old texture - it's been playing for some time. You'll need to do something a bit more fresh if you want people to stay interested in this. Just a tip when you continue
Edit: Cripes!! I didn't even hear any panning! The headphones I'm using we're set on 'Mono'! Oops, I've got to give this another go in a bit!
SlyGeN, about the video I posted - sorry about the quality. I just put something up there... I'll need to post something from DuFay or something later, as becaus as the piece is more contemporary than the style, it blends the harmonic style with the contrapuntal one. That's probably why you hear it moving in and out of minor. I'll try to make myself a bit clearer than this video
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Actually, this is the piece I was thinking of...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK6-ABKvONE
This is before day 1. It represents CHAOS!!
BTW - this was written in 1802... over 20 years before Beethoven wrote the 9th. Very interesting, considering how complex this thing is.
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I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.
lol... Ok, I didn't get into the whole blogging thing until a short while ago, so I'm pretty 'stupid' as far as that is concerned... Thanks for the 'Benefit of the doubt'!
And, after reading that, I see what you mean about his antiperformer-ism. I agree with some of what he says there (performers that only can mimick other styles or have no style shouldn't be given that much respect...), but if a performer can truely change a piece of music into something that is their own, then they should really be given some respect, there.
In fact, any performer that I've met with that amount of talent also have the ability to compose music as well... they merely choose not to. Think about that one.
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Thanks, Xenon, for clearing up my noobish question
Wait, your saying the original poster said those things? Where? I can't find those comments anywhere... Is that sarcasm?? OMG!The OP believes that performing other peoples music and interpreting it is evil, horrible and wrong, if I remember the last thread they made correctly.lol...
And yes, I personally believe we're sacred, but telling performers that is... well...
...that's how my nose got broken for the first time...
EDIT: No, no, I really did mean 'What does OP mean?'. Seriously. I'm that bad.
Tetris' Dueling Guitars
in Post Your Game ReMixes!
Posted
If I'm not mistaken, this is in the key of A minor, right (That's when you use all of the white keys for everything, BTW)? Correct me if I'm wrong. At :20, try changing the chord to a d minor chord instead of an a minor chord, and see how that sounds. Experiment with it a little bit - you'd be surprised how much better it'll sound!
If this isn't in A minor, let me know - it'll make a HUGE difference in how my suggestion will sound!
As for your older works, please don't post more of the Tetris song - you've done enough of that one, I think