GrayLightning

I'm very familiar with the soundtrack and the source materials, Decisive Battle and Fierce Battle. Considering the contentious/conservative nature if the mix, judges should please check the source materials carefully. Your assumption is right Israfel. This is a very tough one, because this sounds wonderful, and obviously house has some great guitar skills. But I feel the arrangement ultimately is a bit too conservative as noted by you and others (in our previous discussions). This isn't just the decisive battle - it has the atma theme at 3:45. I'd like to see more interpretation here, changing the structure, expanding some of the concepts more. Extremely enjoyable and competent but it's too close for me to consider - and for me where arrangement creativity/expansion is my paramount concern in what qualifies, I'm going to have to stick to my track record and ideals. High quality work in many respects, but too conservative for me. Sorry borderline NO.

The vote is sealed with 5 NO then.

The rules are clear and everyone has made their points on the topic already - this is not the place to discuss side topics on policies or to state how rap sucks. Get back to reviewing constructively rather than throwing pot shots. Move on now please or have your posts removed/receive a warning.

Larry may smellz but he's done one hell of a job. Congratulations Larry, you have done something beyond anyone in this scene has for the area of work you did in the last (almost 2 years?) and in all was remarkable work son. Larry still smellz.

I think we've asked this mixer to resubmit this as there are some problems that could be fixed up quickly to make it a lot more presentable...Larry have you heard back about this yet?

Agree with vig on this one, the sax sounds really plain and thin. Needs some kind of processing, reverb or short delays would benefit it. Bad clipping at 7 sec in... The drums sound very lifeless, as is the whole drum line. It sounds very lethargic. I would think about going back to the drawing board on this aspect. Outside some of the sax issues, I actually enjoyed that a bit. To me this sounds very sparse, I think this needs more bottom and middle frequencies. Bump up the bass, how about adding some soft pads to fill out the voids here? Did you just give up by the end? Pretty abrupt and not fulfilling. There is potential here, but as is, the clipping, bland drums, sparse composition lead me to a NO. Keep at it, you have a lot of potential.

I agree to a degree with DanB here. I don't have much more to add that the others haven't already discussed, so let me go on a semi-tangent. This brings up some very interesting and valid questions. Where are OCR standards for orchestral, piano solos, etc... While we do maintain high standards, there is still a level of accessibility we must maintain. This isn't the halls of academia or a tv scoring gig. Performance, technique, orchestration, theoretical knowledge, etc. are all important. But the spirit of OCR rests in my opinion on arrangement and creativity. This mix certainly has flaws and I could not agree with Dan more but the overall package of the mix is still comparable to what we pass - if not much better (an arguable point that isn't really a point of discussion here). Just as we don't expect a piano solo mix like we have passed in the last year to be Rachmaninov, we don't hold orchestrators to the same standards of say Tchaikovsky. (Yes I know this analogy is a bit overboard.) As far as sound quality, it isn't really a problem though. These sound like pro samples, sounds like Silver, unless my ears deceive me. It's quite dry and there's no release trails, so you need to compensate by adding some reverb in my opinion, along with other processing to make the samples come alive. They are quite dry/plain as is apparent in here, but there are no sound quality problems...the problem as DanB to another extent stated is the very rigid sequencing and vanilla orchestration. Sample usage is the biggest problem not sound quality. Now that we've established Goat isn't Tchaikovsky... I think this boils down to great arrangement, neat conceptual ideas but the execution as far as orchestration isn't as realized as it could have been. In this case where the material/composition and arrangement is definitely well done and expanded - I don't think the bar is high enough where one needs to be an orchestration guru to pass. Of course, it doesn't hurt either that the guitar parts and performance are rock solid. Certainly goat can do some things to polish skills on other fronts, but this is a quality mix regardless. YES

You see, you're just proving my point. If you bother to notice, it's called a "review" board which means criticism is expected. If you're going to be a serious artist/composer, you have to be able to handle critique as well as praise. I don't see why I get attacked for being negative and no one gets attacked for being positive. Double standard. Now go away. Oh and the compositional value of the song sux btw. You bring up a good point Magi. You don't have to positive or like it. Critism as you said, is important. But we like to observe some deceny rules here. http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40085 When criticizing, please try not to be overly rude or offensive - the key is to provide constructive comments.

To me this honestly sounds like an upgrade/rather than evolution that is to be considered an OCR Arrangement. Nothing wrong with that, I'm sure Mazedude just wanted to do something fun and pay homage to the original, but as is, this simply isn't meant for OCR. Hope to hear more from you soon. NO

The banjo/koto does indeed sound rough and imo so bone dry. It certainly isn't helped by the rigid sounding pace of it - very robotic on that front. I think this mix could have benefited from more delay or reverb. Everything is in your face and LOUD. This is particularly true of the drums/perc. At times it's overbearing. Those are my gripes. The arrangement is conservative, but there are enough additions here to certainly warrant it as interpretive and passable for me. The writing under the melody is particularly interesting and benefits the arrangement aspect, which I thought was lacking in the source material. The composition as a whole, though repetitive, is also good. The execution as a whole is also well done. Everything just comes together nicely. It also does help that it's quite catchy. Production as a whole is tite, aside from the few gripes I had mentioned earlier. Creative and enjoyable work Josh. Nicely done. YES

These loopy/phased sounding drums don't sound at all good. Beyond that there's way too much reverb on everything. The whole mix sounds drenched with no clarity. That's fine for other genres, but in this context it just comes off quite messy. Compositionally it's ok. I think better use of dynamics and a human element could push this mix higher, but as is, everything just sounds so rigid. Work more on the composition, concept and put meat on the bones as has been suggested. Decent work, but needs more at this point. NO

The arrangement's there in my opinion. The concept's great, but my main gripe is a lot of this sounds extremely sparse. Usually there's only a few elements going on at once. At some points we just have the gated synth, drums and melody. For an ambientish mix, where's the clever processing, harmony, or soundscape? Just needs more meat in my opinion. As a fan of these two artists, sorry, but I'm borderline NO on this one.

This is the case. NO Override for being way too conservative. This arguably has no arrangement value by OCR standards.. This should have gotten the form letter.

The dynamics are indeed nice. The orchestration as a whole is solid, but the sequencing on those solo strings are pretty bad in my opinion. It sounds very mechanical and jerky. Still, it's a good arrangement, with good execution too. Complex and well done overall. YES

Yeah, but he's been submitting a lot of lost/bounced emails stuff throughout the months. DJP ok'd his FallThrough 2 months ago, since the emails weren't getting through and also so this guy could actually get judge feedback. This was a special case scenario.

I have to say this sounds quite pretty, like a lot of TO mixes. This is a very enjoyable listen. Great instrumentation and blending of sounds. It's a pretty good concept and I think it sounds great for a 2 hour effort, but it still does sound like a 2 hour effort regardless. What are you thinking, seriously? Why are you submitting a 2 hour made mix to OCR? This is not ready for posterity. My main gripe about this is the lack of any substance. The whole mix is compositionally and instrumentally very sparse. There's not much fx processing going on here either. Everything sounds untreated and vanilla. This needs to be worked on more. Drums and percussion get redundant after a while to boot. There are also clipping/crackling/audio issues like at 2:46 and elsewhere. TO I really am digging your work though. I hope to hear you resubmit this or more from you in the future. Please be more discriminating or thorough on what you submit though. NO

I love the concept and ideas here. The arrangement's really there and enamoring for me. Main problem for me is the performance is very jerky and robotic, at times hesitant, at times it just drags on. You don't need to be chopin or rachmaninov to get on OCR with concert level piano skills, but this just isn't there yet. Given your previous mixes, I know and am confident you can do better in this regard. As far as the piano, it is a bit on the bright side. Lower the velocities to smoothen out the tone. I think this could do with reverb also. A nice warm, hall or room. You could also work on EQ'ing and rolling a bit off the mid to high/high range. Another consideration is to add some soft string pads in the background to help fill out some of the void issues in here. Good arrangement brought down by some performance and execution issues. Very neat stuff regardless though, but a borderline NO nontheless. I'm looking forward to your Sixty Feet Under.

I'm with analoq on this one. What a shame, there's a lot here that I like. The synth bells/short synths just sound ify for me. Such as :35-:38, around 2:47, 2:58 etc. and repeated later on. Also some of the quick strings, like at 1:18 sound quite odd. It works in the original, but in this context, it just doesn't work for me. Certainly a very divisive issue - I'd like to hear what the others think. Additionally, there is use extreme panning that sounds a bit strange on headphones. The short note synths/synth bells are always bouncing from extreme left to extreme right and vice versa. The weight of your mix seems shifted to the extreme left or right with the synths or strings. I would move things closer to center. The way the mix sounds on my monitoring equipment, it's like there's no actual content near the center, except the drums. I like the concept and the chill factor, but the gripes I mentioned above, along with analoq's slants me towards a borderline NO. Please consider resubmitting.

I pretty much agree with the no votes here. Great concept, but the execution and application of the idea just feels lacking. As already mentioned by the others, there really needs more underlying support material here, and also the tuning issues. Hope to hear you consider resubmitting as there are good ideas at play here, but for now it's too lacking for me to pass. NO

I appreciate and welcome the criticism, and as another long time mixer in this scene I respect Jared's opinions - when he's actually seemingly trying to help. What I don't welcome is the condescension. I felt the comments were bordering on nonconstructive or offensive in tone, which is somoething you've demonstrated in other reviews or threads at OCR. Now as far as the criticism itself, there is merit to it. Harmonizing and orchestration is something, not only I, but Jared himself, and almost everyone else in our community can get better at. The math formula is grossly unfair and over-generalized though. I do agree that my newer stuff is percussive oriented. But to belittle it in such a way is counterproductive, if it is indeed an intention to "help" me. I also have other mixes with either no percussion, hardly any at all and even those without focus on the melody. There are indeed sparser sections, like the transitional sections where I did want to focus on other elements as central points. But to say there's no harmonization at all other than bass and melody is stretching it. The koto like instrument is playing harmony throughout the meat of the mix and was a challenge to sequence. Secondarily, I'm not trying to make mozart, chopin, holst, etc. music (great as they are, that is not my primary interest). I have a lot of influences, that includes native american and far eastern music. Both of which have different rules. For example a Native American piece might only consist of vocal chants, a flute melodic line and percussion. Some Asian derived music might only consist of a flute and some chromatic temple bells. Not everyone's cup of tea music that's for sure. As far as my own submissions I try to put enough elements in my mixes where it would be a feasible OCR submission per the guidelines (of which I am well versed in). Don't expect anything atonal + only bird chirps from me anytime soon. I don't however make mixes for others sake more than my own. If you didn't like the mix, that's fine. I respect your opinion and your freedom to express it. I agree that harsh criticism can be helpful to grow as a musician. We all need some form and fair measure of it. I have no problems with that, and I'm sure it is comments like Jared's that may be beneficial; but the tone and delivery diminishes the point. If Jared has any issues or wants to carry on this discussion or give helpful advice then I'm genuinely interested in continuing this in PM. He's said his piece and now I've said mine. Let's move on shall we?

This project isn't the OCR panel. Why not make and submit something for the fun of it anyway? Your older stuff still rocks, you know...Even years after.

DCT mentioned the title of this mix borrows from my Memories Lost in Time Schala mix. NOICE. I loved the original version of this and this one polishes up and improves on that one. Great background material, almost new ageish. Production as a whole is definitely above average, and the arrangement is definitely the highlight here. Now I need to state there is absolutely no reason to hate on this mix for not having lyrics that is relevant to the game. But in cases as these, having absolutely no relationship can not be argued as superior to something that does. I do wish it did have some relationship with the game in that department, but it's a very minor grip. The rap part of it is excellent though. Quality delivery and solid lyrics also. The part at 4:40 sounds like Streets of Rage. Quality and enjoyable mix. Easy YES. Welcome to OCR, DCT!

As I predicted many moons ago, the groin shall rise again.

DCT Resubmit LT Edit - Original Decision: http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33775 Here's a new version of my Sonic 3 Ice Cap Zone remix that was rejected last year. Here's all the details and stuff, let me know if you need anything else. Your ReMixer name: DCT; Just Us Your real name: Duane Thorpe (DCT); Andre Rainey, Steve Roberts, Van Chambless (Just Us) Your email address: DCTmusic@aol.com (DCT); JustUsMusik@aol.com (Just Us) Your website: http://www.thebigshot.com (DCT); http://www.justusmusic3.com (Just Us) Your userid (number, not name) on our forums: 1135 (DCT) Title of mix: Memories Frozen in Time Link: Name of game(s) ReMixed: Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Name of individual song(s) ReMixed: Ice Cap Zone Your own comments about the mix, for example the inspiration behind it, how it was made, etc.: Everyone seems to look down on Ice Cap remixes because of the overwhelming amount of mixes that exist. Hopefully mine is different enough to stand out. It's a hip-hop mix (I know people are gonna HATE that), and there's rapping in it by a member of Urbanizm Music group Just Us (people are REALLY gonna hate that). Just like Iced Out Nine Twenty Two, there are homages to McVaffe's IceCapped and DarkeSword's Hot Ice, as well as a section of DarkeSword's original piece The Moonlight Ballroom (1st Movement). Hope the judges like it! -DCT ---------------------

After several internal debates between panel members; the will of the majority has won out. The final ruling is a YES and this vote is now closed out.