Chippychan Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 This is most likely a franchise that not a lot of people know about for the PS2. So, hopefully someone will be interested enough in this to help me out a bit. I submitted this to OC about a month ago, i have no idea what's going on with it, as i haven't been rejected yet. xD but if you guys could help out and tell me what you think about it, that would be nice. the only real source material i used was "Mount Gundor Grotto" from the soundtrack in the beginning. But it's a change from how the tune originally sounds, so hopefully i won't get docked points there. Click here to listen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladex Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 i know it well i'd love a remix of rainbow butterfly wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 This is what I miss while vacationing offline - wips! No headphones, so laptop-speaker-feedback is what you'll be getting from me. It's kind'a empty. Sure, it fits the theme of a grotto, but as music goes, it gets a bit too weak. The foreground writing could use some humanization. You should also work on how you end the loops towards the end of the track - they kind'a just stop. The guitar could use some longer notes, possibly some more processing to make it fit in better, it stands out in a bad way. Try dropping it an octave, see if it's any better. As for source, there's stuff I recognize from the source I dug up. At least in the first half of the track. Couldn't connect the choir to anything, but it could just be a failure on my part. Can't say much about the technical details like reverb, EQ, sample quality while on laptop speakers, but it doesn't sound bad. I'm fairly sure you'll get a NO from the Judges tho, given how empty the track is. Source is also gonna be a problem, unless I missed something. Also, they'll probably complain about the lack of humanization, especially in the strings in the second half of the track. Still, there's something about it that I like. It reminds me a bit of Destiny's solo pieces. Her works are more refined with a lot of nuances. Learn from them, and from the wips other people post. Learn to listen for things your should improve about your track. And post your improvements, it's what the WIP board is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chippychan Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 i know it well i'd love a remix of rainbow butterfly wood Yeah, I'll get around to it some time. It would be fun to do. xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladex Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Yeah, I'll get around to it some time. It would be fun to do. xD and if you have time starlight temple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chippychan Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 Yeah, i'm a bit inexperienced for arranging music, hopefully working with you guys will help me improve my works. I know the judges will most likely reject it, that's fine with me, I'm looking for critic. Can you clarify what you mean by "empty" and "humanization"? I've never really heard that terminology being used at the sites i frequent, so anything you can help me out with would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully reworking the song from the ground with your help will help me improve my pieces. :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chippychan Posted July 13, 2008 Author Share Posted July 13, 2008 why not ask me to remake the whole soundtrack? Hell, we should collab on the whole thing while we're at it. 8D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladex Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 lol i have the original tracks in mp3 format if you need them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Humanization is when you turn mechanical, sequenced notes into something that sounds more like it's being played by a human. It usually involves changing note lengths, velocities, and position, but can include stray notes, pitch bends, tremolo, vibrato, swing, stuff like that. Additionally, envelope settings can change with velocity and other attributes, and if you know how to use, it, use it. For example, an envelope with a slow attack would be great for a vibrato or tremolo built into the sampler, it's one way to turn flutes and occasional other isntruments a little more human. Empty, as it's being used here, is when you've got only a handful of instruments occupying a handful of the frequencies, leaving holes in the frequency range. Look at how your track looks on a spectrum view. While some styles pretty much need holes, it doesn't quite work in your case. Listen to some OCR tracks and you should hear a more full sound. The simple solution would be for you to take some background strings and play chords in the background, though the more melody you can have there without taking the attention from the lead, the better. Your track has only a few instruments playing simultaneously, and none of them occupy a broad band of frequencies. The piano seems to be played one-handed a lot, single notes most of the time. Chords or just octaves would even out some of the holes. Having it two-handed would be better. The second section, with choir and drums cover the range a bit better, but the samples are a bit too exposed. Here, the solution would be EQ, reverb, and compression. The drums need compression, everything else needs reverb, all of it could use some EQing. Refer to the various Guides for assistance, I wouldn't be much help there. If you have some kind of spectrum analyser or some other ways of seeing what frequencies you've got on each track, you could map these out and see where you need more stuff. For example, around 0:40, you've only got piano, a flute of some kind, and some wind-like bg sounds, you could use something in the high range there, as well as more full piano writing (full, as in having simulatneous notes). Another example is closer to the end: before the strings end you've got a frequency hole at 500Hz. Having something in the 400-700Hz range would be good (notes in the G3-G4 range). As for the production things I couldn't analyse before, you've got a fairly empty and dry sound. More reverb, richer writing, some preset drum compression and a bit of EQ on instruments that stand out a little too much (like the harp/guitar in the end) and you should have a well-improved wip. That's a few practical pointers. Listen to some other works in similar genres and try to figure out what makes them sound richer, fuller, and more complete. Your remix/tribute is empty, exposed, mechanical, and dry. It's not BAD, it's just doesn't sound complete. Here's a few more tracks I'd recommend you'd try to learn from these: Electric Fields, All the World in One Girl, Dreamer, Lanterns, Afternoon Tea With SnappleMan's Mom, and The WInds of Inishmore. There's a load of other tracks to pick and choose between, but here's some. Good luck, hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chippychan Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Well i worked on it a bit. I tried to fill the "empty" parts and reworked the drums a bit. I also dropped the octave on the guitar and try to humanize it a bit more. Anything else that could use more work? Click here to listen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Hmh, I wrote a great in-depth breakdown, and it's not here. It's not anywhere. Probably because I'm juggling too many tracks atm, must have missed the "sumbit reply" button. D'OH!! 0:00 Intro sounds great, tho you should stereo-spread the low pad instead of having the pan modulated. There are reverbs with great spreading effects, some delays work well as such too, and you might have a good effect for the very purpose of spreading a signal to the sides as much as possible. 0:20 Low piano notes could drop a little in velocity, or the EQ could weaken them a little... Or you'd do the opposite with the right-hand piano writing. The flute is lagging a little, so you could drop its volume and move it back just a little. 0:55 The piano writing is verysimilar to that of a track from Seiken Densetsu 3. That's a good thing. 1:13 The choir sounds great, the low voice that comes in later. It doesn't sound real, but it really adds a significant depth to the choir. 1:49 You'll have to EQ the choir to give some room for the drums to come in. The drums could also use some compression. Drum writing is great, but it needs to be power powerful than the choir. it is when the orchestral drums join in, but otherwise is jsut random percussion. it should be more than that. 2:15 An electronic drum? Doesn't sound good, it's overcompressed and overall... well, ugly. Drop it, or swap it for a drum that better fits the soundscape you've already got. Modern, orchestral, or world music, it doesn't matter as long as it's not electronic. Doesn't work in this track, imo. The guitar that comes in around then could use a little fixing. Some velocity fixes to make it a little more human would be nice, but mostly it's the timing that bother me. The guitar is a little late, so you'll have to move it back a little bit. Especially ther low notes, but moving all guitar notes back a 32nd note (I'm just guessing, but you get the idea: not far) should solve that. The ending seems to be missing its last note. You still don't end the individual tracks very well, you just transition inot the next bit. Work when you're building up or keeping the instrument, but not when you're dropping it out of the mix. Add a final note at 2:58 or 59 or somewhere around there. It can be the expected note, or it could be the same note that you just played. it's for rhythm more than anything, you need that final note. You've improved the track a lot, it's really enjoyable. But it's still not OCR-level, so if you want to learn, keep at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chippychan Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 worked on it a bit. Added a few things here and there and re-did the percussion parts. Anything else i should add/subtract? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Hey Chip, you're back. Was wondering what became of this. Still stuff you should work on, but looking at my list of crits, many of them are fixed. SOme partially, some fully. Now I'll make a new list. 0:00 Intro good, but the pad could still be stereo-spread. The flute seems spread a bit, tho, so it's not as important. 0:20 Piano comes in a little strong, I suggest dampening the five first notes a bit. You might also want to EQ the piano a bit to give it a bit more clarity in the high range. Boost the high range with 2dB or so. 1:05 Transition to break is a little sudden, and the 1:13 drums are a bit too sudden for my taste. A faint copy of them at 1:05 might be a good idea. Some soft piano notes might also easy the transition, especially as the right-hand piano writing seem to be cut off there. A warning drum hit or something before the drums could also ease the transition without taking away its impact. 1:48 Rolling crash could be great at the 1:13 section. Hats are a little shrill. Piano here isn't as pretty as the strings you had before, imo. The piano comes with a short decay (by default, it's hammered string instrument), which just adds to the hammering on strings and the staccato strings in the lows. It's your track, I'm just suggesting stuff. 2:24 Here be clutter. Too much going on when the crashes/hihats come in (and they don't sound good). You might want to drop out the piano when the guitar comes in so you can establish the guitar before. Alternately, pan it. The guitar could use a bit less low frequencies, it sounds very up-close, which imo doesn't suit the ensemble you've put it in. 2:32 I'd leave out the drums from here on, maybe keep the hihats. Before 2:50, the guitar writing is a bit too stong. EQ-ing down its lows might work, but I think it needs more. DO you have reverb on it? You should. Not too much, but some. I would focus on subtracting and tweaking the little things. Here's a quick list of things from last post that you've fixed: 000 intro stereo soundscape 020 piano, but more importantly, flute timing 055 still think of sd3 when I hear that 113 still sounds great 149 drums sound much better 215 no electronic drums Getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chippychan Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 okay, sounds good. can you explain what "stereo-spreading" and "panning". xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Sure. Panning is when you change the volume between the left and right channels so one's strong than the other. This makes it sound like the sound's coming from that side. Stereo spreading can be done in different ways. Flangers and some Phasers modulate a signal so it sounds like it's being panned a little to one side, thena little to the other. Autopan does this without modulating the pitch. Chorus is an effect used mostly to fatten a sound, but some Chorus effects also widen it. Reverbs and Delays also have some stereo features. Stereo means that you're hearing one thing in one ear and another in the other. There are loads of ways to manipulate sound to get stereo effects, but I recommend reverb or delay. there are some special effects dedicated to spread a sound which you can also try. A different way to spread it wouldbe to take a copy of the whole track, pan it hard left, pan the original hard righ, and then make some small changes to the lfos on the synth/sampler. That would change the rate the sound changes subtly, which wouldn't change the sound much, but it would most definitely give you some stereo. Take a backup before doing anything big. And if you want to do your own research, there's Google, Wikipedia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drake7707 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I like it thus far, it reminds me a bit of Another Side, Another Story with the faster part in the middle ^^ Keep up the good work ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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