Super Metroid 'Pre-Boss/Mini Boss'

[The Author]

This was made for the Reserve Tank: VARIAtion album for Blind, and I realize it is far from perfect.

Right now I'm considering changing the instruments around. Maybe replace the strings with some sort of trumpet/saxophone, and I feel there is something to... artificial about the drums, but I don't know what I could do about them.

I also think the whole thing is too artificial sounding.

Plus I really need a better ending.

[Rozovian]

Waay tooo dryyy. And too simple.

Add some chords or backing notes. Add hihats earlier... or a shaker or a high-range rhythmic pad. Add bass. Add a little reverb on everything ('cept bass drum). Use another snare/clap if reverb doesn't improve what you've got

Add a crash when the hihats stop. Add a final note after what you've got. Then the ending is... better.

Add stuff.

[The Author]

My first reaction: whu?

Ok, I'm gonna break it into steps and make sure I understood what you meant. Basically, this is gonna be in the order I was planning to work on it tonight, tomorrow and friday.

First I wanna fix the drums. You seem to indicate that the samples I have would be okay if I tweaked them a bit. So I'll try adding some reverb, and maybe just create a Hi Hat loop to get in earlier in the song, Basically, I'll try to invest a lot of time trying to improve upon the drums I have now instead of trying to rewrite them. This seems like the better plan right?

When you say add Bass, you mean in the EQ or add a bass the instrument (or maybe you want some fish...) Either way, I think I'll do both, yesterday it didn't sound so bad, but this morning I feel like it was too screechy, and I think an extra instrument won't hurt at all.

My next step was instruments. I used strings because I was going for something else at first, but now I feel it could benefit from a brass instead of a string instrument. I might mix it up with a trumpet and a saxophone, if I can make them sound ok.

The "piano" is gonna have to change. Since the melody I lifted from the original material for that instrument is only 6 notes, I feel it's a weak spot overall. I think the changes in speed were a good idea (I could be wrong) but it's only 6 notes. I don't know much about chords or backing notes however.

I also agree on the simple thing, but again, the original material is extremely minimalist, and I was trying to get that feeling in. Originally I wanted to only use this:

http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/SuperMetroid-Plant_Boss.mid

but I didn't find any good melody in it, so I decided to also take elements from this:

http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/snes/smettour.mid

By the way, this is the first time I get something that sounds so musical, any comments are welcomed, but please, use simple terms, I don't know a lot of this stuff, this is like my 7th attempt at remixing in the past 5 years and I,m sad to say it's my best attempt yet.

[Rozovian]

By the way, this is the first time I get something that sounds so musical, any comments are welcomed, but please, use simple terms, I don't know a lot of this stuff, this is like my 7th attempt at remixing in the past 5 years and I,m sad to say it's my best attempt yet.

Okay, let's start by talking about drums, you're best off using presets. Drums tend to need compression, EQ, and some reverb.

Snare and bass drum need compression, or else they'll be too loud. Compression pushes down volume but keeps the energy. Give them a preset "drum kit compression".

You need to process the hihats separately. Use the EQ to remove the low range, reduce the mids.

Apply some reverb to all this. Not much, just enough to hear it.

--

Your instrument choices might be a problem. It's difficult to make stuff sound good, and to have them sound both good and real is even more so. Strings are fairly easy to work with because they have a padlike quality to them. It become mores like an organ with woodwinds, and sampled brass... Well imo it sounds synthetic most of the time.

But try using brass, change stuff up, see what sounds better.

--

Chords are when you have (usually) three notes that create a particular feel. For example, CEG sounds happy, EGB sounds sad. With a track like this, you're best off not getting too far into the chords, so let's use two-note "chords" instead.

When you have a c# in the melody, you can use a lower c# and a g# for backing. Use a pad for backing, it makes it a little easier to work with. The miniboss theme lends itself well to these two chords: c# g# and d a. After three notes, switch to the other.

With bass, I meant an instrument. Most instruments with a short attack work ass bass, but you're better off finding a sample/synth setting itnended as a bass.

Bass needs to stay on the same key as the chords. On that, you can play C#C#C#C#DDDD or C#C#C#C#DDDDG#G#G#G#AAAA.

(if it sounds completely terrible, it could be bad tuning on my guitar which I used to guess your ntoes. Move the chords and the bass up or down one step, see if it sounds better).

Note that the feel might be closer to the game if you play the chords and bass at half speed. You let them go on for twice as long before changing. It might get a little too dissonant, but it could work.

Another, even simpler approach, would be to have a pad play c# for a few beats, then not play at all. They play again. Once again, this would suit the source material well, tho I recommend you try out the previous suggestions first so you get a feel for the notes.

--

Finally, apply reverb to all the instruments. I already said the drums shouldn't have much. Well, the others shouldn't either, but they can have more than the drums.

--

You've picked some troublesome sources. Neither conforms to a standard scale, they're both taking one seminote at a time. On one hand, this makes it difficult to work with it. On the other hand, an interesting source means it'll be an interesting track, at least if you know the source well.

Post again when you've got something.

[The Author]

Thanks to my usual levels of self doubt, I have to ask this, do you think there is something to do with this or is his an hopeless cause?

[Rozovian]

The guy has colonitis, right? He'll be happy to hear anything made for him. Just like a grandma.

Practice makes pancakes. The more, the better. Means your wips might not be edible, but the more you make, the better they get... and the better YOU get.

I'm also getting a lot out of helping you with this. I have to re-examine the music theory I find myself having taken for granted.

Not everyone is as picky as OCR. There'll be stuff to enjoy in this... if you put enough work into it. I'm already hearing some.

Hopeless? No way.

[The Author]

I decided to tweak the drums and instruments as originally planned. I did implement some things you suggested, and I used some ideas I got today. I also consulted a bunch of threads just for ideas. I have to say, without changing the actual composition I'm glad to see such an improvement.

I hope y'all will see the same thing.

[Tensei]

Always great to see someone take up remixing, props for that

This mix definitely suffers from the typical 'newbie' mistakes (no offense of course), but good thing is, we were all there at some point and there's definite potential for improvement.

Rather than giving specific pointers on the production I'll give some general though in-depth advice on improving your arrangement. Thing is, this mix sounds is lacking energy and sounds very empty, mainly because it's missing a very critical element, namely a bass instrument.

One of the best pieces of advice I've heard on writing music is dividing your instruments into four sections: A lead instrument that plays the melody, a backing instrument that provides chords for the melody, a bass instrument that adds lower end harmonies and a steady rhythm, and of course percussion of some sort to accent and drive the mix rhythmically.

If you take away one of these, the result will sound empty. This goes for nearly EVERY type of music, solo instrumental pieces excluded (of course there can be multiple instruments doing backing chords or multiple instruments playing melodies at the same time but it's always good to divide them into groups like that).

For this concrete mix, I'm sure you'll notice that if you add a bass instrument playing something like eighth notes (that are in the correct key obviously) it will sound a LOT better without even touching the production.

Another important tidbit of advice: plagiarize the fuck out of stuff. Seriously, originality is nice and all that, but learning through imitation will make you advance SO much quicker at this point. You can always try to be original after you're confident in your musical abilities. In short, listen to bands with a similar style you're aiming for, try to analyze how each of their instrumental 'groups' sound by themselves and dont be afraid to rip them off just a bit here and there, I won't tell them.

Hoping to hear more stuff you make in the future.

[Rozovian]

There's a couple of sounds I'm really impressed by, those really brass stabs are just too cool. No doubt that this is an improvement, both overall and with details like those.

Four things bother me tho:

1) Clashing notes. Normally, you'd avoid having both a c# and a d played simultaneously, but these sources might require it. When the miniboss notes start playing, the c# feels clashing. I can't say for sure that's what it is, but something is clashing. One solution to this would be to apply some _slight_ panning to get the two away from each other. That way, they won't clash as much. Would be better to fix that in the writing, but with sources like these and with your skill level, it's best not to get too far into rewrites. Panning should help, just don't overdo it. Not more than 10 minutes (imagine it being a clock) on the pan knob.

2) Staggering drums. It's a little annoying to expect to hear the fourth note and not get it. It's a cool writing effect that you could - and should - utilize. Just not that often. Add a shaker or hihat note to most of those instances. Think about where you want the track to feel like it just stops, and keep this effect there.

3) No bass instrument. Simple solution: add one. Easiest writing would either have a long note or a lot of shorter ones, and they'd all be the same key (e.g. c#). Then, when the rest of the track moves to another key, another chord, another root note, the bass moves too.

The nine first notes (preboss source) would be in one root note, the following in another. For most of the time, I think you could have the bass follow the short notes, tho during the louder miniboss sections, you might want to follow that source instead. It would move on the fourth note (fourth note would be another root).

4) Slow attack on the miniboss theme. I recommend you change samples. If you have any other brass samples, try those. At least for the instances where it's in the foreground. It's not as big a deal while it's in the bg.

Yep, it's getting better. It's minimalistic, but that's kind'a what you were going for.

[The Author]

I tried something, I dunno if it really works. Also, I modified it a bit around 1:30, and I think it was for the best, however it still feels rather empty.

I think my bass may be a wee bit too loud, and well, there are other issues especially with transitions. Not as big a step from version 1 to version 2. But I have been working on this for 3 hours. I guess I'll repeat the same patter tomorrow, listen to the song all day long, try to see what's missing and make the necessary adjustments when I get home.

[Rozovian]

Are you familiar with time signatures? The miniboss source is 3/4 while your track is 4/4.

Anyway, you've got 765_123_ (not sure about the tuning on my guitar so I can't say for sure what notes you've got). I suggest you move the 1 one step back, making it 7651_23_ instead. See if you like that better.

The bass needs to be lower. Drop it an octave (12 steps). If it doesn't sound good, use another bass.

What you need is filler. Filler can be pretty much anything, but chords work well. Long notes, no melody. Those short brass notes that you've got, use those on another instrument, move them down an octave, and make them longer, so long that they almost overlap. Use an isntrument that works with long notes. That should take care of your emptiness problem. Just don't have them play all the time.

Also, you can space them up so they'd take twice as long to play the same thing. Then you'd have variation in the filler.

You're heading the right way, man. Great job so far.

[The Author]

I tried the new bass pattern last night, I liked it. No updated versions for now, but it's sounded better. Couldn't drop it lower without it becoming distorted though. I'll try and find a new sample / soundfont tonight.

As for the filler notes, well, I can't think of an instrument that would work well. And it's annoying. I've tried strings a while ago, and well, I don't like how they sound, I like the brass / wood sound I have so far. The fact is, I'm trying to figure out what type of instrument would flow well, and I got nothing. So far, the ideas I have is a tuba and a trombone. But I fear adding another brass would be one too many.

Also, I am starting to like the 1:30-1:40 changes I made (playing a bit longer with the brass hits and pre boss theme). The idea was there originally, so I think tonight I'll go through it and try to hear for these thing with untapped potential. It might make it longer, it will make it sound better, and with the added filler, I'll be able to try new things.

So, the plan for tonight:

1: Finish fixing the bass.

2: Make a filler pattern or two, with an appropriate low instrument. (Suggestions are welcomed)

3: Find transitions that might benefit from being revisited. Stretch them a bit to lessen the "lets fit as many things in as little time as possible" feeling. (If there is something you heard you liked, tell me about it, I'll try to use that.)

Finally, I've been told the song sounds too videogamey by a friend. I know being a VG remix, it's natural, but still, I'd like to address that. It was also described as "creepy" but I think I appreciate that label.

If all goes well, tomorrow all that I would have to do would be make an ending, revise my reverb and other effects, adjust volumes and I would be done (for now anyway, the past week has been rather fun with me working on this, so I think I might keep working on it to see if I could bring it to OCR standards (I doubt I could but hey, it's a goal.))

[The Author]

Guys, the deadline for the album is coming fast, I only have 2 nights to work on it, so if you have any comments, any suggestion, I will greatly appreciate them.

[The Author]

Latest version is in my sig, I changed the name around to something I felt was more appropriate.

[progressive]

I actually like some of the dissonance here because I think it's suited to the Metroid ambiance. My concern is that this sounds very midi-ish and repetitive. Some remixed albums go for that kind of sound---something that could replace the original in-game tracks---but I'm not sure this was your intention. I'd suggest listening to the Spore Spawn track (which was excellent) again and seeing if you can't find some "essence" you could incorporate. I do like the new title, though.

[The Author]

Okay, here is my plan for the next couple of days. Obviously, I will make changes to have something somewhat acceptable for the album. After that, and a couple days of distance from the song, I'll try to get what I have now, shake it up a bit and step into my long term plan.

Short term: Making the album deadline:

More depth to the solo oboe and to the introduction

Check attack on trumpets

Adjust the brass notes and basoon backs

Is that a clarinet sqweaking?

Long term: BREATH NEW LIFE INTO THIS, the instruments feel somewhat... anemic...

Stop being afraid of creating new patterns.

Step out of your comfort zone.

Delete the playlist, focus on making good patterns.

Add to the melody, maybe something a bit higher, and different note pattern. The same 6 notes can be changed to create a different mood. Maybe use a different instrument for the different melodies.

Get new melodic elements, something to change from the 6 notes.

Revisit the drum patterns, adjust them a bit to a more rigid structure. (maybe split each instrument into a different pattern, stack them in the playlist instead of the step sequencer) Create drum patterns for each melodic elements, or drum patterns that adapt well to them.

Revisit the brass hits, see if I can make them fit more with the new melodies.

Guitar? Yes/no?

Get inspired:

Arrange the elements in a different pattern

Slower introduction.

Slowly add to the melodic instruments, building strength and momentum.

Listen to Master of Puppets from Metallica's S&M album.

Yes, I picked an odd source of inspiration, but this album kinda has similar leit motives, somwhat up beat music, modern interpretation, classical instruments. I'm not saying its

gonna sound like that, but I'll try and see what they did with all the musical aspect and use that as a cornerstone.

[The Author]

So I started from scratch, and I actually have a collection of melodies, no real transitions, some are stronger than others, and some are closer to the source material than others. I'm gonna have to do some clean up, and major tweaking, but I am liking the introduction part so far.

The disjointed feel is... kinda good, I think, but it may bite me in the ass one day.

It's a very early WIP, but I figure some problems will have to be fixed sooner than later.

[Rozovian]

The intro is pretty good, would be awesome with you add drums or bass, something that'll give more of a build-up feel instead of just repetition.

The melodies themselves all sound fairly good, I can connect them all to source. You could sketch out the progression with a pad or strings, just to have the chords/keys there. You could draw the overall shape of the track, in terms of of it feels.

Example:

intro

intro drums

crash and pause

backing for melody 1

+melody 1

repeat with variation, and a hint of melody 2

melody 2 + backing

drop drums

grand finale with intro melody as theme

outro on low brass chords

That's sort'a how I think it could go, but there's many different spins you could take it on. I suggest you sketch it out before building too much. Even if you don't follow the sketch, you at least have the plan there. Things might not work out exactly as planned, but it's better to deviate from a plan than to aimlessly meander around.

You're gonna have to tweak the samples a bit, all that brass feels a bit lo-fi. If you have samples with more highs, use them. If it's just a matter of raising the velocity to get a more clear sound, do that. Keep in mind that you should vary the velocities too. Imagine how the thing would be played for real, what notes are softer and what notes aren't.

Sounds promising, keep it up.

[The Author]

Revised the melodies and decided to go with pianos, the felt more alive.

Here are my melodies, from 1 to my 3 versions of melody 7.