Yoozer Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 There's only a single reason to go the Mac route, and that's the software you run. Logic is Mac-only, FL is PC only, using the Mac as a Windows box - not good. Actually, duplicating your casual usage setup would be nice - it can already make a big difference if you have a separate system. Both that PC and the Mac will be old hat in 4 years - the monitors and a good controller keyboard will outlast it. Invest a little extra so you get quiet parts; the only noise a computer's permitted to make is that which comes out of the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgfoo Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Like Yoozer said, what software do you want to run. If you want to fun FL, don't get the Mac Pro (buying a Mac Pro just to run windows on it is just stupid). If you want to go the Logic or Digital Performer rout (hell, you could (should) just use Garageband till you get the hang of things) then the Mac would obviously be a good choice. And for all of the people who have been mentioning good monitors, remember if you have crappy DAC and are in a shit room, having good monitors would be a complete waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 I have no clue what software I'd want to use atm. I have played around some in FL, Reason, and Garageband before, and I can get comfortable with whatever I think, but from the comments here, seems like everyone loves Logic Studio that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 I'd suggest getting some of the other gear and playing around significantly in the demo versions first, or if you can bribe some of your local OCRemix friends into giving you some time on their rigs, try that. Try recording things, playing on a keyboard if you get one right away, and making music point-and-click style. Everyone has their own preference depending on how they look at music and what background they already have, and it's worth the time to figure out which one suits you best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 As to the whole monitors thing, your Sennheiser 280 Pro's are actually pretty decent mixing headphones; I have the same ones and it's some of the flattest EQ I've heard from headphones (I am not claiming that they are the flattest to everyone else out there). I do all of my mixing on those, and they produce pretty balanced stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 No, I wouldn't be throwing Windows on a Mac Pro - it'd remain exclusively a Mac box. I would consider using it for one other task other than music, being writing up math documents in LaTeX which would be convenient given that I have a Macbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio fidelity Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 lots of stuff here - i went back to take out all my biases on logic - you decide you shouldn't really be mixing on just headphones. they are a valuable tool, but i see them more as a magnifying glass and they can be unreliable with clarity and low frequencies. i also think its best to have a computer separate for audio work anyway, anything else you have on it can potentially make it unstable. if you go with a mac, check out OWC.com for ram and hard drives. save your money, the guys at macrumors dig them and they are good with warranties - its lifetime on the ram. since you are just starting out, more than likely, whatever route you choose to go with, be it FL or logic, you will probably learn that program and want to stay in it, or, better put, be stuck in. i wouldn't even bother with garageband, because for 500...and its like 200-300 if your student, you get sooooo much more with logic. go to an apple store and play around with all the sounds they give to you with it. its like 6 synths, electric piano, organ, clav, and a drum machine program. a super nice convolution reverb, every effect you would want (there's like 50 of em, even a guitar amp sim, which is decent), tons of sampler instruments with a great sampler, and i think its like 20 gigs of loops and sfx. the learning curve is much easier in 8 from 7, but it still isn't a walk in the park. another great thing, since computers can handle so much native power these days is that people are really psyched about OSX 10.6, because they are going to integrate 8 cores a lot more efficiently. and you can bet logic is going to benefit from this before anyone else. and all the points about having a good room to listen and decent digital audio converters is important too. if you can get in a room with higher ceilings, away from corners, and not have parallel walls with flutter echo (just clap to hear flange) you will be ok. you can worry about the digital audio converter when you buy a better audio interface. apogee makes a great interface that is tailored for logic and they are known for their great converters. i'm also pretty happy with my motu 828. like it was said earlier, it might be better to start small and expand. you will definitely be able to make higher quality recordings with a mac and logic, as opposed to a pc and FL. but this is also under the assumption that you will be wanting to do more audio. you get more midi sounds in logic too, but for 3,000 more, is it worth it? you decide. but please go with whatever you feel is right, i just wanted to make the point that whatever decision you make, will shape your production skills and entrance into all of this, so try to be informed so your not wasting money. get some reading material. you can hit me up on IRC if you want any advice - i wish i had someone help when i was doing this years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 So, I was checking out Logic Pro at the Apple Store earlier, and wow I want to start out with it. It seems much more intuitively designed than most of the other programs I've tried out, and it is fraught with a lot of nice one button hotkeys. I didn't get to try out any actual arranging though because there was no midi controller hooked up to the computer, and there was also no sound on the computer, but from all everyone has been telling me so far, that shouldn't be an issue. I'm definitely interested in buying a Mac Pro when I get back to school next week now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Keep wasting your time on complaints while the rest of the people make music .oh, rite, pattern bullshit. You mean like this: or this: or this! which has this! did i mention what a piece of professional studio equipment this was that costed more than an apartment in Manhattan? god yes that was fun the board software thinks I shouldn't post more than 4 images so this softens the blow of the 5-foot titanium spiked cock of pwnage you were scheduled to get Yeah, that's right, I'll listen to some douche who just collects gear because he can and never puts any music up that's worth listening to. Aside from your mountains of gear, you have no cred, loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoozer Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 seems like everyone loves Logic Studio that much. There are some weird bits in there, but it's very well liked - all the more because the price has dropped sharply with the release of 8 (it used to cost twice at that), plus if you want to just practice without the sequencer, there's MainStage which doesn't distract from just playing. Snappleman's comments and my retort and his counter-retort (no doubt followed by questioning of sexual preference, notation that one creates a vacuum, and a nonsensical statement involving plankton ) show also something interesting: - it's not the stack of gear that allows you do to your stuff - whatever someone else thinks of how you work, it doesn't matter - the result is what counts Also, here's stuff for the room: http://www.realtraps.com/products.htm http://www.studiotips.com/ for DIY (provided that you can do this, have access to the right materials - none of that cheap pointy foam or egg cartons nonsense) You mention you sing, so it's probably worth it to designate part of the studio as a vocal booth or use something portable like this: http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html When you want to record vocals, make sure you set it up in such a way that you never have to worry about the recording - harddrives are big enough that you can leave it running for a day and still not fill it up. The idea that you don't have to nervously run to the computer to check if everything's alright and then run back for a take takes a load off your shoulder, since you're doing everything by yourself. It's why they keep everything running in studios too, and a booth has another psychological advantage - you don't feel "exposed" as a singer, so you're not as nervous. It's easy to cut out the bad bits. The pop filter - well, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_filter explains it all, really, and it's indeed cheap to make your own. It's just that the ones you buy can be mounted easier (but not necessarily better). Also, I've got a subscription (eSub) to http://www.soundonsound.com/ . It's got tons of useful articles - also about recording techniques, treating/improving amateur studios, tutorials for Logic (and Cubase, Live, etc.) - it's not as focused on the electronic stuff as Computer Music is, so it might be of use for you. The eSub doesn't cost a ton to ship in paper and it's searchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I wouldn't get an Axiom actually.. ...Look at something by M-Audio instead (psst... M-Audio makes the Axiom...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanthos Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I think you mean look at something else by M-Audio. (psst... M-Audio makes the Axiom...) Bit late to the party there, BGC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big giant circles Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 D'oh. Yes, it seems, I am... Wes, I recommend using FL studio, with a semi-weighted keyboard, with EZ drummer. But only because I know Snapple hates all 3 of these things and I enjoy his rants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio fidelity Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 So, I was checking out Logic Pro at the Apple Store earlier, and wow I want to start out with it. It seems much more intuitively designed than most of the other programs I've tried out, and it is fraught with a lot of nice one button hotkeys. I didn't get to try out any actual arranging though because there was no midi controller hooked up to the computer, and there was also no sound on the computer, that sucks. most apple stores i have been to have a midi controller setup with logic. and every apple store should, especially for your kind of investment. i would go back or find another that will let you play around with some sounds. guitar center should carry it as well. i would call ahead though. ...but you should really hear the things your getting and start making decisions on what sounds are going to work for you and which ones won't, so you can better spend your money on sample libraries down the road. when i got logic years ago, before they ever had displays setup at apple, they didn't include all the synths and sounds...i was a novice and, i tell you, pretty surprised that i had nothing to make music with. if no one helps you with the program, here's a couple basic things - launch the software instrument but clicking on the input of a software instrument channel and setting the instrument. if you bring up the library tab on the right with the media icon, you can easily go through all the presets of which ever plugin is clicked last, and its highlighted in white...just click another plug in the inspector on the left to change the list. and have at it. you can also open the apple loops browser in another tab on the left and listen to your loops. and last, there are channelstrip preset that can also be accessed from the library by clicking on the top of the channel strip. - if you need help, just click on the help menu list at the top and bring up the pdf. and about doing studio foam...be careful. you can make a room a sound a lot worse by killing all your high frequencies and your ambience. if you have parallel walls but a decent ambience, go with diffusors if you can. you can build them yourself, or use things like bookcases. all they do is displace the sound in random, uneven patterns so you don't have standing waves. a well-made vocal booth although isn't a bad idea, but isn't necessary. lots of singers track in the control room with headphones on. if your tracking and start hearing a wall slapback...then either find a different place in the room and reset the mic, or fix your wall. i see engineers using u-haul blankets pretty effectively. i saved money and went to walmart and got those bed eggshells to use as diffusors for parallel walls. it was like 10-20 bucks each. have fun with it...and don't throw away your money unless your sure its what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio fidelity Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 ***mistaken double post*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avaris Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 If you are lookin to learn more about Logic you really can't beat this dude: http://www.youtube.com/user/SFLogicNinja?ob=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 So I pulled the trigger for the Mac Pro. Now, back to those instruments of concern - any more thoughts on the mic and midi controller or contrary views to those some suggested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 As far as mics go, you can do anything shy of miccing bass drums with a Shure SM57, and it'll sound great. As for midi controllers, your best bet is an Edirol PCR 800, the keys are fantastic, you get a ton of knobs and sliders, and it's very well constructed with good quality parts. Just stay away from M-Audio as they tend to produce cheaper stuff. Also, keep in mind that Steinberg makes a MAC version of Cubase, which pretty much rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 So what's the difference between the Shure SM57 and the SM58? In addition, what suggestions are good for monitor speakers & headphones, and a good audio interface? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnappleMan Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 So what's the difference between the Shure SM57 and the SM58?In addition, what suggestions are good for monitor speakers & headphones, and a good audio interface? SM58 is designed more for vocals, meaning it's EQed slightly differently. The SM57 has a very flat response, which makes it a great all around mic. As far as an audio interface goes, that all depends on your needs. The best option is always PCI as it's the most solid. A good option would be an Echo Layla or Delta 10/10, as it's very affordable compared to the more high end interfaces from RME and MOTU. If you don't need that many in/out channels, then you might wanna go with something like an Audiophile 192, Echo Gina or Echo MIA MIDI. For monitors, you should check out the KRK Rokit series, those are good, but if you can spare the cash, go for something higher up like a good pair of Mackies (HR824's are incredible for the price). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audio fidelity Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 snappleman is right about the 57. everyone should have one...they are about as cheap as it gets too, so no reason not to get it. but if your planning on recording voice, i wouldn't use a 57. you need a condenser mic. i would check out akg or rode for your price range. and not to get you in over your head, but you need to make sure that whatever interface you get that you have a preamp to feed your mic or you won't be hearing anything. a lot of audio interfaces have them but there are those that don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Are there any particular recommendations for audio interfaces that would be good for me then? And I definitely intend on recording vocals, so a mic more tailored for vocals would be of more use atm. I can buy another for other purposes down the road (probably won't need it for at least another year anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Really interesting to hear you come around to Mac so easily, Wes. I made a thread here about audio interfaces (read it!), and after research I've decided to go with the Duet. Of course, I'm going for a software-oriented, mobile solution. That's why I'll be getting the Macbook Pro with the Duet and a vocal mic. As those from MAGFest may remember, I already have a MIDI controller. Said Duet easily allows for any guitarist/bassist friends to record. As for monitors and room quality, I'll have to forgo those in the name of mobility. But otherwise I should be golden with this setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Really interesting to hear you come around to Mac so easily, Wes. I made a thread here about audio interfaces (read it!), and after research I've decided to go with the Duet. Of course, I'm going for a software-oriented, mobile solution. That's why I'll be getting the Macbook Pro with the Duet and a vocal mic. As those from MAGFest may remember, I already have a MIDI controller. Said Duet easily allows for any guitarists/bassist friends to record. As for monitors and room quality, I'll have to forgo those in the name of mobility. But otherwise I should be golden with this setup. Haha, I was thinking about that earlier. I'm buying this almost exclusively for music making though - after trying out Logic, it just impressed me with its interface, something that the other DAWs couldn't do, and after weighing in on my other expenses that I could chop off to help fund this purchase as well as other benefits to this, I really couldn't resist what an opportunity this affords me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pezman Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Well I was gonna edit my last post, but apparently you stay up just as late as I do. There's only a single reason to go the Mac route, and that's the software you run. Logic is Mac-only, FL is PC only, using the Mac as a Windows box - not good. This is true, you buy a Mac largely for Mac software. BUT... that doesn't mean you have to throw away the opportunities running Windows can afford you. I intend to maintain a Windows partition/virtualiztion not only for games and other exclusive software, but maybe I'll want to follow along with one of Zircon's vids sometime. Having the FL demo installed there (even if I never use it) allows me to keep my options options, in terms of exploring the different programs and making my own judgments and decisions about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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