Lie Mf B Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 New version, 9 February 2009 Ok, here's a major update from the last version of this. I have now reworked the intro completely, letting a newly recorded version of the Dr Wily map song from Mega Man 2 precede the Silver Surfer tune (plus a bunch of environment sounds, beginning with the Swedish bomb raid alarm). Here's another WIP in the flood I've been producing lately. I really appreciate your help so far. This one's a kind of medley which in typical prog-rock fashion goes from one part to the another without a conventional song structure. It's also going to be part of a longer 10-minute "epic", so this isn't even the whole thing. Anyway, I've lost touch with it and can't hear what's good or bad anymore, so I'd love to hear some reactions, especially on the flow of the song. Does the transitions work? Do any parts feel out of place or too sudden, etc.? Some "disclaimers": - The break at 2:15 feels sudden but straight from the source. - I'm working on the drums; will among other things replace the hihat in the beginning with something less stressed. - The last part, starting at 4:58, is a bit tucked on; might be removed. - The moog lick at the turnaround of each Dr Wily repeat sounds crap, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 I never see ANYONE do Silver Surfer on this site, and here you are, doing your second Surfer/other WIP. Personally, I love that soundtrack to death, so I can't tell you how sweet it is seeing someone do mixes of it here. BTW, thought you'd like to check this out... http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8223 I just found it, and thought, seeing you as the Follin fan you are, you might be interested in it. Sadly, it's old, so we cannot contribute, but something to look forward to, nonetheless. Anyway, on to the mix. It's slow, even for the style your going for. I'd speed it up about 5 - 10 clicks (20 - 40 mm) for the sake of the listeners. It's hard to listen to this tempo as is (roughly 124 - 128mm), so about 148 - 160 should be what you reach for in this. As of yet, the rhythm guitar is... boring in the beginning. The game even had some arpeggios in the background to keep the rhythmic parts interesting - perhaps you can incorporate them into it? Otherwise, the flow of the song is alright, I wouldn't worry about it too much for now. The counter melodies are good to have, but if your using them, please... PLEASE do NOT use fifths in parallel motion! It's a pet peeve of mine (if you read any of my wip comments ), but it's not personal. Trust me, there is very good reason for this. If your using a fifth, do not follow it with another fifth immediately after. 0:32 - 0:35 is an example of the fifths that I'm talking about. It continues on and off until 0:56. Now, not all fifths are bad (the one used at 0:39 - 0:40 was excellent), but the fifths that move with the melody ruin those sections. Do not take out the counter melodies altogether - that will ruin your song. Instead, if your gonna double your melody at times, use 6ths or 3rds instead, or scrap moving with the melody... move against it at times, or stay static while the melody moves under it. Use your ear to determine what is good or not, but never move with it using fifths. Look at 4:10. That's from the source, but it is moving by 3rds below the melody, not 5ths. Notice the difference in the sound. Your break at 2:20... it is the source, so can't complain there, it's pure awesome Gotta tell you that the ringing chords behind the theme at 3:09 are... amazing. I'm in love with that sound. I feel this needs more moments like it, but... well, your call, not mine I really like the transition from SS to MM from 3:56 - 4:10. Subtle, yet the listener can tell there is something new happening. 4:58 only sounds tacked on because you don't use very many polyphonic lines in the music before. If you either change it so more moments happen before like it (like the Silver Surfer lines I suggested before) or change the line to a more rhythmic strum (like you use throughout the song) my make it work better. I wouldn't like to see it removed, though; otherwise, the second half of the MM would not be in the song, and it is a good part. As was said before in your Jewelman mix, the mixing IMO is great for the style, but it may need a little work in the EQ'ing toning down the mids and bringing out some of the highs and lows if you want this to be on OC. I'd comment on the drums, but you said yourself that your still tinkering with them, so I'll leave them alone for now BTW - I'd put the source tunes up in the forum for your WIP's - the SS one is not that common, so people wouldn't know what you were remixing. Here they are for you. MM1 - Wily 1-2 SS - Emperor's / Mephisto's level (not Possessor, like in the video comments >) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFWXgk1VMwI I'm happy that someone is finally mixing some Silver Surfer. It makes me happy. Continue and keep us posted - I want to hear more of this! It's good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lie Mf B Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Thanks a lot for your thorough comments, I appreciate it! It's slow, even for the style your going for. I'd speed it up about 5 - 10 clicks (20 - 40 mm) for the sake of the listeners. It's hard to listen to this tempo as is. I agree, a little. But the only way for me to speed it up -- except for rerecording the whole thing -- is to actually stretch the wave after mixdown. The problem I have with many NES songs at original tempo is that I can't do 'em tight and groovy enough when they're that fast. As of yet, the rhythm guitar is... boring in the beginning. The game even had some arpeggios in the background to keep the rhythmic parts interesting - perhaps you can incorporate them into it? Yeah, I guess you're right, it's a bit dull in the beginning, and I don't really like the intro that much at all. Thanks for reminding me about the arpeggios, though there's no way in hell I'm able to play 'em in their original form. But I'm gonna experiment with keyboards and some of those ringing chords you mentioned later. I'm also making a whole new part as a prefix to the whole song. (In it's finished state this track will be part of a 10 minute medley). The counter melodies are good to have, but if your using them, please... PLEASE do NOT use fifths in parallel motion! It's a pet peeve of mine (if you read any of my wip comments ), but it's not personal. Trust me, there is very good reason for this. If your using a fifth, do not follow it with another fifth immediately after. ... A lot of the counter harmony was improvised and I went with the notes that I thought sounded good. I don't hear this "fifths" problem at all, to be honest. I guess you have more musical ears than I do. But it's very interesting, and I appreciate the examples you give. I agree that it sucks with harmonies that go in parallel too much, and that thirds work better in this way. I'm probably gonna rerecord at least parts of the harmony to make it tighter, so there's a chance to experiment with the notes as well. Gotta tell you that the ringing chords behind the theme at 3:09 are... amazing. I'm in love with that sound. I feel this needs more moments like it, but... well, your call, not mine Haha, thanks! I like them too. I forgot to mention that I've borrowed heavily from Led Zeppelin's Achilles Last Stand (i.e. 1:04-1:17, 3:35-3:48 ). I don't know if you've heard it, but that song has tons of those ringing chords and harmonies. I'll see if I can put some more of those chords in this. (Btw, I'm probably getting my ass sued some day because of too much "stealing" from famous musicians, but it's part of my style to mix my favourite vgm tunes with parts from my ol' idols.) I really like the transition from SS to MM from 3:56 - 4:10. Subtle, yet the listener can tell there is something new happening. I'm happy you thought it was subtle, because I'm still afraid some people will find it incoherent. I'll work more on meshing the style of the last ("tacked on") part with previous parts to make it a better whole. This may also include more ringing chords and stuff in the beginning, which might improve the intro and make the song more relaxed (along with improved drums). I'll eventually post a new version. Also thanks for the source links (I forgot them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (Btw, I'm probably getting my ass sued some day because of too much "stealing" from famous musicians, but it's part of my style to mix my favourite vgm tunes with parts from my ol' idols.) Look up Stravinsky on the subject... He says bad composers 'borrow' from other composers; great ones 'STEAL'!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lie Mf B Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 Ok, so now I've got a new version up, with some major improvements. Aside from the new intro I've also rearranged the guitar harmonies you talked about, Gario, and I definitely think they're slightly better. Not too many fifths in a row now. The drums have been improved a little as well. The only thing now is that the last part (now at 6:10) still feels quite redundant. I might cut it totally and let the next phase of the medley (which isn't there yet) take off right after MM1-Wily. Anyway, I'm still interested in any kind of feedback. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillRock Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Are you the guy who did the silver surfer/TMNT remix? Cause if you are, you have GREAT taste in video game music I like this, sounds awesome. I'm hearing a strong yes influence, sounds like yours is no disgrace arrangement is bloody fantastic When this is done, if you can compress it enough, sub it to ocr, I bet it would get posted, and if not, give me a copy, cause this in my honest opinion is complete Epic win Well, I don't know what others think of this version, but you've won me over man well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well, I loved this song before, but with the changes you've made, it's become amazing. Period. Using Wily at the beginning like that was a stroke of genius. Very catchy, and it brought us into the music much better than before. You also don't mess around here, either; you just hit us with the ringing sound that I oh so love. Beautiful. I really can hear the difference in the counterpoint you've used. It's a whole load better sounding to me (and 'definitely slightly better' to you... what ever that means ). It sounds much more interesting. Disregard whatever I said about the EQing - it really needs the EQ you've got right now to give it that authentic flavor. The break at 4:47... hmm, I thought it was good before, but now that I hear it, it IS slightly abrupt. I think it's just the sudden change in the levels, albiet slight. That rhythm could be brought down, or could possibly be brought in at 4:54, after the part repeats once. Perhaps a small bit of tinkering is needed... From 6:10 on, it sounds like your ending the piece right there. For that purpose, it's great as it is... however, if you want to add to your medley here, then that is probably not the sound your going for. Personally, I agree with Willrock in that you should submit this to OC ASAP... but the entire medley won't be accepted due to their terms, so you can leave the ending on this one, put it up here at OC and finish the some for your own album. Great piece of music here, I'm glad you've updated it for us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lie Mf B Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Wow, I'm a bit overwhelmed by all your positive comments. It feels really great especially when one gets some criticism and actually use that to improve a piece. Willrock07 -- Yeah, it was me who did the previous Silver Surfer / Turtles tune. I'm glad you dig it, but I wasn't 100 % satisfied with that piece in the end. You can however rest assured that at least this one will be available on my site in a month or two, regardless of OCR. I love that you heard my Yes influences. I think the source tune has tons of Yes in it to begin with (especially the part at 3:43 in my remix), and my little guitar lick at 4:11 was nicked straight from Steve Howe in Yours Is No Disgrace. I really dig that Dr Wily map tune too; I think it's an overlooked little piece of funk which could have made a whole remix in itself. Disregard whatever I said about the EQing - it really needs the EQ you've got right now to give it that authentic flavor. Ok, thanx. When I'm done with all my songs I'll try to clear my head, listen to some records for reference and mix the whole album to good levels (to my ears). I like it as it is now, but if I can please a few more listeners with more treble, there might be room for that too. The break at 4:47... hmm, I thought it was good before, but now that I hear it, it IS slightly abrupt. I think it's just the sudden change in the levels, albiet slight. That rhythm could be brought down, or could possibly be brought in at 4:54, after the part repeats once. Perhaps a small bit of tinkering is needed... I feel fairly done with that part for the moment, but I'll give it some thought. From 6:10 on, it sounds like your ending the piece right there. For that purpose, it's great as it is... however, if you want to add to your medley here, then that is probably not the sound your going for. Personally, I agree with Willrock in that you should submit this to OC ASAP... but the entire medley won't be accepted due to their terms, so you can leave the ending on this one, put it up here at OC and finish the some for your own album. Yeah, I hear ya. I never really intended this song for OCR release, but it might be worth a submission. In that case, I'll definitely leave it like this. The medley form for this song only makes good sense within the scope of my planned album. A "medley" is a loose term, as well -- I really dig the way some albums have songs that segue into each other without a silence in between, but still being two separate titles, or having "part 1 and 2" in their names. Thanx, as always, for the feedback ... talk to ya later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docevil000 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I had to go figure out my password so I could comment on how fucking awesome this is. I love the mix of the two songs. Silver Surfer IMO had the best quality music for the NES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Silver Surfer IMO had the best quality music for the NES. I second that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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