Q sound emulation

[DJ Black OP]

Question...

We have access to 808 beats, moog synthesizers, etc., all of which have been reproduced in vst plug-in form. If that's the case, how is it we cannot reproduce the sound found in the capcom classic games? I've tinkered with vsts and soft synths...but nothing matches that classic sound found in each of the old school Capcom games.

I've gotten a hold of some of the ones that capture that NES sound...its so accurate I can smell the carts. But where would I be able to find sounds like those created for Street Fighter Alpha 2, Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter, Pocket Fighter...etc.?

[Zephyr]

You may be thinking along the wrong lines, you don't want synthesizers and drum machines from the era the game was made, early game systems (SNES, NES) had their own internal soundchips and independent sound systems, games didn't contain audio, only note data for the soundchips.

Unless you're talking about arcade games or some other systems.

[OverCoat]

are you talking about the MVS arcade cabinets?

If you're looking for a good early 90s FM VSTi look up VOPM

[SnappleMan]

No, he's talking about Qsound. CPS2 wavetables. As far as I know, the only way to get that sound is to hack the samples out of each rom.

[Yoozer]

Street Fighter Alpha 2

With synthesizers, the question is - "how well does it emulate a piano?"

With videogame sound, it's similar. You get basic pulsewaves to FM synthesis in the Genesis to tracker-like sample-based sound on the Super Nintendo, and parallel the Neo Geo which combines FM with ADPCM (samples) to even higher-quality sample-based tracking like on the Nintendo 64 and CD-based soundtracks.

From Snappleman's comment I deduce it's sample-based - and in that case you already have your emulation, just not the library.

[DJ Black OP]

So let me get this straight...the sounds we hear in those games that used the Q sound chips are recorded samples and not synthesized sounds?

Let's use Street Fighter Alpha 2 as an example.

Sakura's theme...the music from that stage is not a synthesizer..but recorded instrumentation?

[Yoozer]

So let me get this straight...the sounds we hear in those games that used the Q sound chips are recorded samples and not synthesized sounds?

Well, if you had a clear mp3 file or Youtube demo in the topic start, we could've told you so directly .

Sakura's theme...the music from that stage is not a synthesizer..but recorded instrumentation?

It is most likely a tracker. This is a combination of a sampler and a sequencer.

"Synthesizer" is a very broad term.

The signal flow of a subtractive synthesizer can be shown as follows:

oscillators -> filters -> amplifiers

Grossly ignoring vast parts of the history of synthesizers, here's a short summary - oscillators can be fully analog (Minimoog), analog but digitally controlled (Juno-60, C64 SID chip), digital (Korg DW-8000 - those basically repeat a very small single-cycle sample; an Amiga can do the same), or based on a longer, not always looped recording of a sample. A sampler is different in pretty much one way; you are allowed to overwrite the sounds and use your own recordings, while the Korg M1 demo'd below has sounds fixed in ROM.

Analog filters aren't that hard to build, but if you want 8 notes of polyphony, you need 8 of those filters. The DW-8000 has analog filters; the first sample-based oscillator synthesizers lacked filters because they demanded too much of the CPU, and it took Korg for instance a long time to implement a resonant lowpass (which can make the sound squelch - it's the whistling effect you are probably familiar with).

In arcade boards like this, it's likely that filters weren't needed, and the advantage of using a sample-based synthesizer is that it can play back the effects too. In

- the first sound you hear doesn't even have to be recorded; there are several ways to generate this sound using looped single-cycle samples and careful volume control to mimic the echo.

What gives it away is the slap bass sound in the video; compare with the Slap Bass here: http://www.synthmania.com/m1.htm . This one might sound better because the synth's memory is 4 mb - but you can already cram an awful lot of useful material in 1 mb if you wanted to, especially with lower fidelity (22khz, 8 bit).

[DJ Black OP]

Ok...so firstly...these tracker/sampler combos...I have a sampler built into my host program, fruity loops. Are you referring to that type of sampler or is this a different type of sampler entirely?

Secondly, you're saying that the echo and the reverb on the sound effects and tracks, voices, etc. in alpha are, for lack of a better way to say it, simulated? If so, how do you think they accomplished this? Like, are they using traditional Yamaha, Moog, etc. synthesizers...or are they building them from the ground up as trackers? If I find a tracker, could I reproduce that sound?

[SnappleMan]

So far the best way to learn about how CPS2 does it's magic is to you download the Nebula Jukebox player. In there, you have a full channel mixer where you can mute/solo every single channel used within a song. Great way to learn the music and to hear the tricks they use.

[Yoozer]

Ok...so firstly...these tracker/sampler combos...I have a sampler built into my host program, fruity loops. Are you referring to that type of sampler or is this a different type of sampler entirely?

I don't think there are other samplers, really?

Secondly, you're saying that the echo and the reverb on the sound effects and tracks, voices, etc. in alpha are, for lack of a better way to say it, simulated? If so, how do you think they accomplished this?

Echo is easy - it's simply a matter of repeating the sound again at a lower volume, which is trivial with a tracker (or for that matter, with any sequencer) - older synths had a "MIDI delay" trick which simply played the note again at a lower velocity (the speed you hit the key with, generally linked to volume).

Reverb is trickier, but what one can do is make 2 versions of the sample - one "dry" and one recorded through outboard reverb. Again, a reverb tail can be simulated by controlling the volume over time with an envelope, so what you need is the diffused and filtered version of the sound.

Like, are they using traditional Yamaha, Moog, etc. synthesizers...

Keep in mind that vintage machines didn't blow up (so probably no Moog) until the mid-nineties, and even then. It's also easy to draw/generate a basic waveform like those found in a subtractive synthesizer; you only have to calculate it once and leave the transposing to the sampling engine; then you control the volume during the time with an envelope.

or are they building them from the ground up as trackers?

Not sure what you mean with this.

A tracker is a combination of a sequencer and a (basic) sampler. In most trackers, you're allowed to draw your own waveforms, which is mostly useful if you want to use single-cycle waveforms. It's not that hard to write an offline software synthesizer - think something like CSound, only homebrew - to generate certain synthetic waveforms. When it's turned into a sample, it's trivial to play in real time; generating it in real time was the problem.

If I find a tracker, could I reproduce that sound?

Not necessarily, since most newer trackers have a higher fidelity. Older ones (FastTracker, ScreamTracker 3 and Impulse Tracker) load up low-fidelity (mono, 22khz, 8-bit) waveforms and use their own quick & dirty software mixing/transposition algorithm - and that's what gives the sound its character.