jabond23 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Alright. I was in the remix request forum and saw that someone wanted an epic metal version of the big boss theme from Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island for the SNES. This was requested by a forum user, Swordbreaker and KyleJCrb kept it alive. Gario also said he wouldn't mind hearing a metal version of this song. Anyways. It clocks in at 5:13 long, but its not at all repetitive. I tried adding some new sections and interludes that set it apart from the original theme. I'm pretty sure i've got all my writing done that i wanna do. As for the production/mixing, most of that is done as well, but i'm not sure if its as crisp as it could be. I think maybe some of the volumes need to be adjusted as well as EQ, but i wanted to put this up for critique in the mean time. Let me know what ya guys think. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xDjN45wheM WIP: http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=242 or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hah, I was waiting to see what you'd do with it. You didn't disappoint - I love that intro . Yeah, the EQ is really, really hot throughout, so you certainly need to work on the upper end of the EQ, there (lower it significantly). Again, a common issue you tend to have though is that the leads never stick out - you need to mix the leads into the forefrone a bit better. Sone of the notes were a bit off in the beginning (at 0:21), you should take a look into that. I really like the arrangement direction you took with this one - Swordbreaker better like it . It's a touch on the liberal side, but I can still identify the source well. The song felt just right when it comes to length; it didn't leave me hanging nor get me bored, at all. Very sweet arrangement. May I add that this was indeed epic? Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm glad you enjoyed it Gario. Like i said, this was a lot of fun to do cause its just an intense track to begin with and epic is definitely what i was going for. I lowered the high's tremendously on the EQ's for all the tracks. Especially the ones that jumped out too far. I also reworked the volumes so the leads stand out much more as well. I'm hoping this is sounding better. As for the part :21, are you talking about the guitar? Or the orchestra behind it? I think i might actually sub this one, but only if i can get the production tight. I know the judges like the more interpretative side of remixing nowadays. Which is actually better anyways. You can go on youtube and find a handful of just covers but find no remixes for that track. http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Sorry for the late response... As for the part :21, are you talking about the guitar? Or the orchestra behind it? The guitar hits some sour notes. I'd just stick to the source, for that tiny part . Wow, nice organ - I couldn't hear it before. The balance of the mix is doing better, I'll admit. The guitar still drowns the orchestra when it shouldn't from time to time, but that's not hard to fix (I don't think). Yeah, keep cleaning it up - I don't have my volume up enough to give you better feedback (sorry!)... Isn't anyone else gonna help a brotha remixer out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 That intro part at :21 is still the original but i plan on fixing it. I thought they were the correct notes according to the source, but doesn't mean they sound good when played on a guitar. I also fixed the volumes issues with the guitar overpowering the orchestra at certain points. The orchestra now stands out quite nicely and its a little more cleaned up compared to the last version. or http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=249 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordBreaker Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I just noticed this. I should check the WIP boards more. First off, thanks for taking on my request, dude. This is such a cool track that deserves more remixes. I like the direction you took with the remix overall. Epic stuff. High energy and fast-paced. A very authentic thrash metal sound. The performances on the guitar playing, soloing and synth are also pretty cool. I especially love the intro of the track. There are a couple of problems here, though: 1) A tad liberal for OC ReMix. Don't get me wrong; I enjoyed the originality in the track and the mix-ups so it's not repetitive. The thing is that you basically crammed the whole source tune in the first minute and a half and some towards the end...and the rest of the track is just original work. I recommend that you spread out the source tune more throughout the track...like cutting the source tune into parts, then weaving each part with your original stuff so that the transitions are seamless. Another idea is to alternate the lead synth part and solos of the source tune between your guitars and synth. 2) Guitar sounds muddy. Drum samples are sort of drowned out. I'm not the best guy on technicalities to improve the quality of guitar sounds. Let's hope our OCR rock experts can give more feedback. Sixto, OA, CHIPP Damage, Nekofrog, Tensei-san are examples of such people. 3) Like I said before, the synth piano playing and guitars complement each other well. I'd like the synth to stand out more though. Also, I don't like the synth sounds used in the part after the first minute. I prefer the higher-pitched one that you used before that timeframe. 4) The orchestrated sounds still sound like an afterthought compared to the guitars and synth. Also, the orchestra-only part that comes up in the middle of the track is unnecessary as it cuts down on the energy of the playing abruptly. I prefer that you used that part with the intro and after the 4th minute...it'll sound better. Keep cleaning this up, man. I like where you're going with this and it'll be great if you perfect your work so it can get accepted on OCR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Yeah, i've had remixes rejected before because they weren't liberal enough, but i see what your getting at. I'm gonna fix the latter synths you mentioned to the higher synth. It does actually sound better that way now that i hear it. I'm gonna tweak the volume a tad and the EQ as well to make that lead synth you like stand out a little more. Also, i'm cleaning up the rhythm guitars and drums to be a little more on the higher side so they don't sound so muddy and drowned out. That orchestrated part you were talking was my attempt to break up the track but keep it epic at the same time. What i'm gonna do is just take out the orchestra only part but keep the part where it plays with the guitars/drums so it flows nicely and keeps the energy moving along nicely. I'll put the fixed up version on here tomorrow when i mess around with a bit more and then see what you think of it. I might change the second leads part after the what i call, the "chorus" with the really fast drums and the rhythm organ, at around 1:45 to something more along the lines of the source tune so it better carries the source sound throughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Alright. I fixed a lot of the things i mentioned in my previous post. I also switched around the breakdown to add in the part from the beginning of the source. When you hear it, you'll see what i'm talking about. I actually like the breakdown a lot more now with that part added. I added a couple bass boosts, or bass blasts, whatever ya wanna call them, to the mix just add an extra layer to the mix. I'm think this version is sounding a lot better. or http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordBreaker Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Yup. Sounds a lot better. Guitars are cleaner. The extended intro of the track sounds much better now. Keep cleaning it up, man. As for that breakdown switch up, it sounds better than the last version. There's still something off about that part, though. Can't exactly put my finger on it. The lead guitar with the source and the rhythm guitar don't really mesh well in that part. Still needs more source overall. Perhaps you can add certain hints of the melody and harmony of the source itself onto various parts of the track. Doesn't have to be a 1:1 copy of the source if you know what I mean...just like you did with the improved intro, source plus your original playing. Also, like I said before, I'd like more of the cool synth playing throughout the track...replacing the samples I didn't like after the first minute. Finally, can you change up the ending? Make it more epic like the intro or something. Maybe slowing down the rhythm then ending with a fury of drum playing and an extended guitar note just like what live bands tend to do. Get me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Sound: Too shrieky. I did a bit of EQing on the mp3 out of boredom yesterday, and it sounded better to me with a decent boost at 200-500 Hz and a cut at 2kHz-5kHz (IIRC). The way it is now, the drums lack presence and the guitar riffs sound like a puddle of noise. It's hard to make out the notes at times. The EQ settings mentioned above definitely improved on that. Try giving the drums a lower mid boost as well. Out of interest, are you using cheap speakers? The sound makes for a slightly painful experience on decent ones. Talking about the arrangement, some sections are awesome. Good energy in general, loving the breaks. Good drum programming. The piece seems to lose focus during all the wankery though. The structure just feels a bit random at times, with one solo after another. I have absolutely nothing against soloing orgies, but some transitions could be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordBreaker Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Just to add a reference to my explanation above. Maybe this will inspire you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGaXb2EMBfY F-Zero X music. The first one is the original track and the second one is the official guitar arrangement from Nintendo. See how the source tune pans out more in the arrangement...and how the source parts transition flawlessly to the original work and solos? And there's a part where the synth plays part of the source then follows it with the same melody but on guitars. I'd like the structuring of your remix to be similar to this one...with your personal touch of course. Nase makes a good point about the abrupt transitions between certain sections of the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 Alright, i read what you guys commented on and when i get home from work in a few hours i can dive right into that. I think the "shrieky"-ness that Nase was mentioning is probably the main lead synth maybe being too loud overall? I'll look into that. Also, i was thinking about what you, Swordbreaker, was mentioning about adding more hints towards the source throughout the song. I think i can switch up the original part after the first 2 solos, the one with the really fast drum work, and instead of that rhythm organ i can replace it when an orchestra build up similar to the intro. I'll work more on the EQing as well to clean up the guitars more. I appreciate it guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I think the "shrieky"-ness that Nase was mentioning is probably the main lead synth maybe being too loud overall? Not specifically, I was talking about the whole sound really. That's why I was wondering about your speakers. Because both the lacking and the overly prominent frequencies are consistent throughout the song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Share Posted July 27, 2009 I realize what your saying now about the overall loud volume, mostly towards the EQ level. I tweaked the EQ some more so the drums stand out more now and the rhythm guitars sound clearer. As for the transitions between different sections, i tried tweaking drums so they kinda roll into the next section a little better. I did that mostly to the parts right before the parts with the fast rolling bass drums. As for adding more hints toward the source, i switched the overall progression of the that fast bass drum part to a build-up similar to the one in the intro. And Swordbreaker, i took your suggestion and added a nice "live band finish" to end of the track. I hope you like it. It actually brings the track a nice end. Nase, i do have a nice set of speakers. Its just that sometimes i don't realize how high pitched a track is until a while after i finished it. I realize that i should've added a global EQ and tweaked it like you mentioned. or http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=258 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Well, the good news is that the high EQ doesn't hurt my ears anymore . Unfortunately, the rhythm guitar still blends too well with the other instruments (aka it's too muddy ). Now that the general mastering is at a nice level you can tweek the individual tracks to separate them better from that rhythm guitar. I believe the whole master track could use a boost in volume, too, however you could do it (turning it down was a good idea, but I think you went a little too far with it ). The drums are pretty slick, though, now that I can hear em', and the shredding leads are really good when they're there. I don't know if this is too liberal or not, because I sort of recognize it throughout the whole thing in pieces (personally, I think it's within their range of acceptable material). I don't know if they'll be counting seconds for this one or not, but if you want to be safe, count how many seconds of recognizable source there is in there. If it's over 2:32 worth of source your pretty safe (that's about over 50% of the song, which is what good ol' Larry looks for). Is there any way you can compress the file down to the 6mb limit? The 12mbs make it difficult to download and listen to, atm - it takes too long to download . Besides, you'll need to take it down to that, anyway, so why not? I think it's getting much better. Power to you, buddy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordBreaker Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I like that live band finish, dude. Not bad at all. The track sounds cleaner now. Keep cleaning it up as much as you can, man. Gario and Nase comments are really helpful in terms of mastering the track. Yeah...about the source, you should just put an estimate to see if you're on the right track. I feel that you need just a bit more source left and you're there...maybe include something during the live band finish or put more source in the middle of the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superKirk Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Posting to say I am very excited to hear the finished product. One suggestion I'd like to make, however, is if you could allow the synth pad in the beginning to build a little more before you come in with the guitar melody, rather than coming in immediately. I find the track starts too abruptly with that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 Posting to say I am very excited to hear the finished product.One suggestion I'd like to make, however, is if you could allow the synth pad in the beginning to build a little more before you come in with the guitar melody, rather than coming in immediately. I find the track starts too abruptly with that happening. I'm glad your liking this, and i'm not really sure what i should to kinda bring the guitars in smoother. I know in the source, that's basically what happens, but i can look into that though. I cleaned up the EQ on all the individual tracks and i think the guitars sound much better now. They sound seperate and less muddy than before. I also re-recorded that part :21 that Gario pointed out sounding slightly off key. I was playing the low notes on a drop D tuning instead of standard E. I upped the volume from about 70% to 90% now. I'm just trying to avoid clipping/distortion. I made this version 160kbps so its under that 6mb mark and it'll make Gario happy about not having to wait so long to download it. or http://ocrwip.fireslash.net/?fid=270 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superKirk Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I'm glad your liking this, and i'm not really sure what i should to kinda bring the guitars in smoother. I know in the source, that's basically what happens, but i can look into that though. Pretty much just bring in the underlying synth pad and let it fade in for a few seconds before the guitars start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 I think i figured out what you wanted and i'll post that version in a little bit for ya. I sort of extended the intro an extra 4 measures to make it 16 instead of the 12 i had before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 Alright. I know i've been lazy getting another version up on here, but i think this one is better. I went and deleted the 2nd solo part before the breakdown mostly cause it didn't really hold any significance towards the source. Because of that, the length is now 4:33 instead of 5:13. I think this kinda clears up the being too liberal issue that was mentioned. I kinda like it better this way anyways, cause now its shorter and sounds more like the source as well. I also cleaned up the EQs and volumes a little better in this version. Let me know what ya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordBreaker Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Great stuff, man. The track is sounding better and better as you continue to tweak it to perfection. I can no longer listen to the muddiness that accompanied the guitars. I still don't like the sound of the synth used for 1:06. Kind of prefer the rough screechy one used in the intro and the rest of the track. Also, the sustained horn sample used after the track ends is a bit too long and basic. Shorten that a bit and fade out. BTW, try out OCRwip and see if the people there can give you even more feedback on technical stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 Yeah, that sustained part at the very end of the track was just supposed to be a quick hit. Its something my recording program, Mixcraft, does with that sort of instrument. I'll fix it and repost another version. Thanks man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabond23 Posted August 8, 2009 Author Share Posted August 8, 2009 Ok. I fixed the sustain on the last note of the orchestra hit so it just hits and nothing else. Also, the synth that comes in around 1:06 is different from the highter pitched one only because the source was written that way. It has a "guitar" solo, which is my lead synth, and there's the organ solo. I thought the one i used fit it the best and did the job of a soloing organ. I really wanna sub this, but i wanna mess around a little more with it before i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordBreaker Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 Yeah, man. Play around with it a bit more. No rush. More constructive feedback on your recent WIP will help a lot. But from my end, I think you're about done with this track. Good work in improving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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