FF7 in 494 words (it isn't emo)

[Gollgagh]

Ladies and gents, here we have exhibit A entitled "Argumentation without sources."

[Sir_NutS]

Thanks for the summary Jovian, I knew about the jenova cells and all that but I never looked at the plot from that side. Still if this is the case and sephiroth was just a marionette, well that leaves us with a real villian that has absolutely no motivation, oh well.

I can't argue that FF7 had a good story, because it did, I think there are good stories that can be simple and understandable on the first pass, and also good stories that require additional examination and analysis. For example most people would understand the story behind say Million dollar baby on the first watch, but most people would need to watch several times say, for example, 2001: a space odyssey, and read extra analysis to grasp it. Both great stories on their own, but one needs further analysis to be fully understood.

[Nekofrog]

2001 is probably the worst example you could have put forward, given that it is an awful movie. maybe something like the usual suspects where you CAN get it all in one sitting if you pay attention, but a second viewing (not required) is also helpful.

unlike ff7, where several playthroughs still = wtf

[Native Jovian]

Still if this is the case and sephiroth was just a marionette, well that leaves us with a real villian that has absolutely no motivation, oh well.

Sure, the same way that Lavos has no motivation in Chrono Trigger. Most people seemed to think that that turned out alright.

unlike ff7, where several playthroughs still = wtf

If you haven't gotten the general idea of what's going on in FFVII after several playthroughs, then I don't know what to tell you. It's entirely possible to get the whole plot as I've described it in a single playthrough. Part of the reason why FFVII is a bit confusing is because we're re-told the same thing multiple times (how many times do they go over the Nibelheim flashback? Three? More?) and none of them tell the whole true story. We're told that Soldiers are showered with mako to make them more powerful. Then we're told that they're "infused" with it in the same sort of process that we see making monsters in the Nibelheim flashback. Then we're told that it's not actually mako at all, but Jenova cells. Repeat this for every major plot point (and most minor ones) and it does get a little confusing.

But it only takes one playthrough to get the gist of it, and if you're still "wtf?" after several, that's your fault rather than the game's.

[Nabeel Ansari]

But it only takes one playthrough to get the gist of it, and if you're still "wtf?" after several, that's your fault rather than the game's.

I kinda have to agree, I only played FFVII once (just recently, like this recent summer) and I pretty much got the story down.

Maybe you were just too distracted by the empty/dark/depressing parts to pay attention to the story.

[Sir_NutS]

2001 is probably the worst example you could have put forward, given that it is an awful movie.

o...k... o_0

And NJ I can't argue that people think that chrono trigger didn't turned out ok because of lavos, because I think it turned out AWESOME. Like I can't argue that final fantasy 5 didn't turn out ok because Exdeath was just TEH BIG BAD EVIL. However I can argue that the idea of a big bad evil that wants to destroy the world just because, is kinda trivial, overdone and unoriginal. I like the stories more when the characters on it have a reason to do what they do, they feel more real that way.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Xenogears!

That's right, I went there.

I liked how the review had a pretty original point of view. Reading about how FF7 starts with a bad-ass soldier and then chipps away at him little by little makes it sound way cooler than it seemed when I actually played it. I have never thought of FF7 as emo, but my best friend said "it paved the way for other emo RPGs." I don't really know what she meant, but probably the first example she would've given is FF8, and several people in this thread have also agreed that Squall is emo. But I don't think he's emo either. Granted, I moved to Japan before the whole emo "movement" started, but isn't an emo person someone who acts depressed so that everyone will pity them? It seems like every time anyone gets whiny about anything, they get labelled as emo. Squall's girlfriend fell into a coma! You guys don't find that a valid excuse for being bummed? I do.

[K.B.]

Xenogears!

Shit!

[Nekofrog]

Xenogears!

That's right, I went there.

I liked how the review had a pretty original point of view. Reading about how FF7 starts with a bad-ass soldier and then chipps away at him little by little makes it sound way cooler than it seemed when I actually played it. I have never thought of FF7 as emo, but my best friend said "it paved the way for other emo RPGs." I don't really know what she meant, but probably the first example she would've given is FF8, and several people in this thread have also agreed that Squall is emo. But I don't think he's emo either. Granted, I moved to Japan before the whole emo "movement" started, but isn't an emo person someone who acts depressed so that everyone will pity them? It seems like every time anyone gets whiny about anything, they get labelled as emo. Squall's girlfriend fell into a coma! You guys don't find that a valid excuse for being bummed? I do.

Squall was emo LONG before that ever happened.

[Sir_NutS]

Squall was emo LONG before that ever happened.

Yeah I was about to say that.

And HOLY CRAP someone brought in Xenogears, run for your sanity.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

All before that wasn't emo. It was just stupid teenager syndrome. You know how kids are... they suck.

EDIT: I apologize to all the kids out there.

...but you suck.

[Nekofrog]

well, kids DO suck...

[bladiator]

well, kids DO suck...

Amen to that.

[Nabeel Ansari]

All before that wasn't emo. It was just stupid teenager syndrome. You know how kids are... they suck.

EDIT: I apologize to all the kids out there.

...but you suck.

well, kids DO suck...

Amen to that.

Thanks guys. :/

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Hahaha. I'm sorry, Neblix. I don't hate ALL kids.

I just wanted to say that there are tons of teenagers that act like squall acted and they can't all be classified as emo. From what I've read, there are all these cliques and one of the newer ones consists of a bunch of kids who don't get along with all the other kids and feel out of place and so they get down about it and then decide to just continue being down intentionally so that they can generate pity from others because it makes them feel better.

At least that's what I THINK emo means.

If that's the right definition, then Squall isn't emo.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Hahaha. I'm sorry, Neblix. I don't hate ALL kids.

I just wanted to say that there are tons of teenagers that act like squall acted and they can't all be classified as emo. From what I've read, there are all these cliques and one of the newer ones consists of a bunch of kids who don't get along with all the other kids and feel out of place and so they get down about it and then decide to just continue being down intentionally so that they can generate pity from others because it makes them feel better.

At least that's what I THINK emo means.

If that's the right definition, then Squall isn't emo.

Emo means you're so depressed and emotional that you hurt (usually cutting your wrist is what everyone expects from emo people) yourself intentionally. If you don't hurt yourself, you're not emo. You're just depressed.

[dPaladin]

I think Squall is more angsty than emo.

Also, if you can't get something's plot from one run-through that doesn't mean necessarily that it's bad or good. The first time I saw Donnie Darko, I saw the theatrical release, which is missing a bunch of significant plot material and you can't really understand the reason for everything that happens. You just don't have all the information that you need. That means that the movie is poorly constructed. The director's cut fixed most of the problems I had with it, so I guess shame on them for cutting the movie.

On the other hand, FF7 is more like Memento. Did I say that already in this thread? Yeah I think so. Maybe not. Anyway, in both instances, you're given bad/incomplete versions of the story and it's hard to piece things together. They play with your head a little. They're complex and confusing and while you can and should understand the story in general (which I don't think is what we're talking about) in one shot, getting all the ins and outs to fit is a bit tricky. That doesn't mean that the story or presentation is bad; it just means that the writers understood the audience's expectations. And bear in mind that I consider myself no FF7 fanboy. I'd sooner play quite a few other jrpgs.

So yeah:

Most good stories can explain themselves and get their major points across without you going "wtf did I just watch/play".

That's why it's a GOOD STORY. Well crafted. FF7 was just absolutely ALL over the place, to the point where 12 years later I still didn't know EXACTLY what happened, even after playing it several times.

But you probably DID get the major plot points. I wouldn't consider the stuff we're discussing here to be major plot points. imo.

But this reminds me that FF7 (and the series as a whole) recycle plot material like mad.

FF games in which amnesia is a plot device (big or small):

4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

FF games in which mind control is a plot device:

4, 4 again, 7, 8, 9? I don't remember.

There are probably more, but time for work!