*NO* Secret of Mana 'Mystic Invasion' *RECALL*

[djpretzel]

ReView thread: http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=34065

Decision thread: http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=32963

RECALL VOTE GUIDELINES:

We're gonna try something new and do a recall vote as it appears Brad's SoM ReMix might very well have involved too little arrangement to comply with our standards. If someone with more background can chime in and explain further, that'd be great, but apparently his piece is more of a transcription of two songs in question than an arrangement, in his own words.

Please don't vote yes or no again regarding whether you LIKE the mix here, or think it should be removed due to sonic quality or other unrelated issues; the sole criteria we're evaluating is whether it's enough of an arrangement to work with our standards or whether we let something through that we probably shouldn't have. You might want to listen to Brad's other pieces as well, as they aren't wild rearrangements either yet we didn't seem to have the same qualms, and also keep in mind that reinstrumentation, subtraction (instead of addition), and modifications in tempo ARE *aspects* of what we think of as arrangement.

I could go both ways on this; definitely the panel's call.

[Protricity]

hehe, reverb pulsation! That’s an interesting effect with an interesting affect.

Interesting and moody, but way too short and minimal to work. Would be great if, at the 2:30 mark or some point, a more established guitar melody came around. Just an idea.

Please do something more with this. Its well done, and almost enough for a yes.

NO

Furthermore, its a direct transcript of the original, so says the author, and so would say anyone who listens to the spc.

[GrayLightning]

This one slipped through the cracks and my initial vote was a mistake. I also blame the hanging chads for the wrong vote. I initially gave this a borderline yes, but in light of more detailed and direct comparisons to the originals and the mixer's statements, I am changing my vote to a NO.

There is some arrangement going on here by the guidelines detailed by djp. I love the mix, the style of the mix and the creative production methods but ultimately I suggest the mixer go for a bit more. This is not a transcription site, it's an arrangement site.

I can't justify giving this a Yes, when we have No'd mixes with a little more arrangement than this.

Sad to say, NO

[Digital Coma]

I still like the atmospheric value of this piece, but we've rejected mixes that sounded just as good and were more original arrangements than this one. In retrospect, this would probably have been rejected had it been known that it was a 'straight guitar transcription.' And I know Brad is capable of rearrangements.

NO

I think that in the future we should require submitters to mention in detail the source material they've mixed so we can bypass this easily-avoidable confusion.

[Israfel]

I'm going to have to go with a YES on this one- and as that will surely be the minority opinion, I'll try to offer some explantion.

First of all, this idea that the piece was originally passed because of confusion of what it was a mix of, is baffling to me. "Whisper and Mantra" and "Holy Intruder" are for all intents and purposes, the *same* piece of music. How this mix could be an acceptable rearrangement of "Whisper" but too similar to "Holy Intruder" is beyond me.

Second, it's interesting that while "Holy Intruder" and "Whisper..." are fairly unremarkable pieces, this mix is almost always described (by the panel and listeners) with such modifiers as "avant garde," "dreamy," atmospheric, "melancholic" - it's clear that this mix conveys a certain "artsy" gloom that is wholly absent from the original.

When I first heard the mix I was under the impression that the harmonies had been thickened- but according to Brad the exact opposite occured, the arrangement is actually stripped down from the original. But this aural illusion is no accident, and most likely occurs for two reasons

1) guitar, like piano, strengthens the effect of dissonance- thus making the chords sound more complex than perhaps they truly are

2) Brad is using alternate tunings- not adherring to the equal temperament tuning that is constant thoughout the vast majority of music- this more than anything is probably what's responsible for the thick, dense and unabashedly dissonant textures which are heard in the mix (and yet are absent from the original).

Perhaps on paper this was simply a transcription, but in practice I believe an entirely new musical statement was made- an introspective and minimalist statement. And that's why I think the mix should stay.

[Digital Coma]

I will add that I agree with what Israfel has said, but my concern is that with passing the mix we had violated our own standards used to reject other submissions. My NO is not resolute, however.

[Vig]

I completely agree with israfel. while it might be a transcription, i have to immediately give credit for two points, being that

1. The sound, ambience, mood, feel, effect, etc of the mix is unique to the mix. To say that this mix is the original with better samples or with drums, (as has been the case with previously rejected mixes) would be obviously false. There has been an obvious reduction from the original, into a lonely melody and harmony part. The effect of this reduction should not be lost on the listener.

2. this is some sweet guitar playing. while again, i havent sat down to figure out the part, it sounds like it was fairly difficult to play. not that that means it should pass, but the guitar expresses personality and emptiness that add something not found in the original.

YES

[analoq]

alright, i never actually listened to this mix before when it was posted on ocr and i've been avoiding voting on this recall thread.. but this needs a decision.

i like the performance and the style.

the non-et is a nice touch, i'm no stranger there. i frequently play with natural tunings.

i don't like the idea of recalling this mix, however i pretty much agree with gray. we've asked for more 'rearrangement' than this many many times in the past and i think we need to stick to that or our gray-area becomes much much larger. we're not really being too hard on brad, he could've changed things around just a little bit more and this would be a shoe-in.

n:(