City of Corneria (Version 4) updated 08/08/10

[zikon]

Hey guys.. this is just a short short short little bit of what I have for a corneria remix. doesnt go too far, just a little sample, even though its short feed back would be appreciated.

Note, I just got symphonic orchestra silver a few days ago, so i'm on a 'high' of creating symphonic pieces.

http://www.mediafire.com/?tp0e9e7r2tf1n2q

(2nd Version) http://www.tindeck.com/listen/gfch

(3rd Version) http://www.tindeck.com/listen/nizt

(4th version) http://www.tindeck.com/listen/ctfx (fixed)

[Sbeast]

Its a pretty good start, this could become really epic so please extend it. EWQL sounds really good, I want it!

[Psy_commando]

It's been a while since I've seen/heard a corneria remix.I like where this is going.

I think it begins very well. But I can't stand the violin tremolo sample you've used when you begin the main melody. It sounds kinda cheesy and out of place.

And I think it could use some brass and woodwinds, like french horns and oboes. Also, adding some timpani couldn't hurt, I guess.

But that's my opinion, and I'm not a musician.

[zikon]

thanks so far for the positiveness. Ya, i plan to implement some brass/woodwinds into the mix, and get it going with also some timpani. But thats not a tremolo sound I'm using. Its a sustained violin playing short notes, with a hard vibrato. I do kind of see though what you may be talking about, I think the vibrato gives it that sound. I may play around with the different violin samples and velocity to get that down.

But ya, this is definitely just a little piece of what the song will turn into.

I just haven't been on here in so long, just trying to post piece by piece and get feed back to try and boost my confidence lol.

[No Escape]

First off I will say this track was hard to download. Please get a Tindeck.com account (it's free) so users can not only preview the material, but also download it with ease. On to my review. The Instruments sound pretty sequenced/fake, but you're on the right track. I like anything with an epic feel to it, so I'm probably being lenient with my review. I think some more drums would help out a lot. I notice NO cymbals. The snare has a good verb setting, but it's too quiet in the mix. Take away a little verb and add some volume. The string leads, on the other hand, sound dry/fake. If you have no better patches to work with, try adding some release and some long delays (mixed at a 15-30% wet/dry ratio) to give them a better epic lead feel. The progression could definitely be a little more epic too (That's ALL personal opinion, and the way it is works well), but I would add some sort of ascending progression to the first few measures (when the progression comes in). I won't comment on production value since I know it's a WIP, but expect a stronger critique of that on the next revision, and please make that revision longer. I'm the worst with wanting to share my 1 minute intros and all, but I'll call for self restraint here (people in general want to hear finished products, and very few will give time or consideration to short demo works). I know from sad experience. All that said, you better keep this track moving, because I like where it's going and I expect to hear more

[zikon]

Well, I hope they arent fake, I paid a pretty penny for an EWQL symphonic orchestra product. If they lied about them recording real instruments, I'll be quite mad. Now I do believe I probably need to tweak the settings a bit and play around with the effects, to make it sound better, but to me, they already sound better than anything i've had before. (as in free stuff)

And ya, I know its not ideal to just post small stuff, but I think its better to take people along the way with me as I work on it, and have useful critiquing at a point that i can make a good change, than to just put something all together and in my mind think its good, and then not be able to fix it.

[No Escape]

Yea maybe I went over board with "fake". They sound like real hits, I think they just lack a human feel (they were all dead in time, with no velocity or release changes). Also, I re-listened to it on mediafire, and it was much easier to download (The first time I got stuck in some ad loop while trying to get it and I was very frustrated). Tindeck is still better (plays in window automatically when the link is clicked and never gets "looped up" like that, but you're all good either way). And don't worry about the short length... I'm sure I'll probably post some short intro for review, so I don't wanna seem hypocritical (AKA see my own "and please make that revision longer..." quote posted in that thread lol) . Anyways, keep up the good work.

[zikon]

Hey guys, well, be patient with me. Sorry if I like to hear what people think when I improve on my wips. Added a more progressing intro, changed some harmony violins, added timpani and cymbal, and tried to work with velocity's to make the strings sound a bit more life like. Please go easy, realize this is still just a wip, and its got quite a ways more to go.

But I hope those of you who are watching this forum, enjoy the updated version, I know I do.

Link to the 2nd version is in first post. Also took advice and got a tindeck account.

[Psy_commando]

That's a big improvement, it sounds like some epic movie soundtrack music now.

I still don't like that "sad" vibrato violin sound near the end, but now it's much less annoying. Moreover, it somewhat sounds a little empty, almost like if some instruments were missing from the orchestra, I don't know how to explain that really.

In any case, you're doing great, I'm sure it will turn out to be a great remix.

[zikon]

Thanks, next thing I'm going to add in the brass.

I'm excited. For years i've wanted to do a corneria remix, and finally this one actually sounds promising.

[zikon]

Ok well, I will kind of admit, I sort of added the next part on hastily, so any kind of criticism is good, but either way, enjoy.

[No Escape]

I like your additions. The ascending progression at the end (G,Eb, F) is a nice touch of epic, and epic goes a long way with me. The brass isn't right yet. I read that you added it pretty hastily, so I'm sure you can hear the strange cutoff setting when it fades. I'm not sure the higher octave of it sounds as realistic as the lower, but it could just be me on that one. I also noticed that your vibrato leads are a little sharply panned to the left (sounds like 30-40%). I would center them more, and if you have to, shift the string rhythm to left when they come in. Cymbal work sounds decent, but I would tone down the orchestral drum (I don't know what it's called, maybe timpani?) that comes in for 8 measures at about the halfway mark. Make it hit every other measure (1st, 3rd, etc) and see if that sounds a little better. All and all, it's better in every way than I last heard it, so good job.

[Psy_commando]

I like it, it sounds a little rough around the edges but it's good.

I'm just wondering, do you want to make an "action soundtrack" kind of instrumental music, or you want to do something softer ?

Because, a problem I see with the current song, is that it's half-way between a "all out action track" and a "Lord of the Ring, panoramic scene track" ( sorry I don't know the term ). The first part builds lots of anticipation, but then just when you think something big will happen, it goes back to the first part, and it ends.

I can give you an example of somebody who made the same mistake with the same song, at least in my opinion :

And here's another one that turned pretty good : http://www.corneriasound.com/?q=node/24 And another one : http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27354&highlight=corneria

I'm not saying yours is not good, or that you should do like any of those, but I think your remix has a lot of potential, and shouldn't end up like Demonstray's ( no offense Demonstray ).

Anyways, I hope I didn't bore you to death with my long speech, and I'm anxiously waiting for your next update.

[zikon]

Ok, sadly my mind is starting to wander on this one been toying around with a couple other starfox tunes in my head also, and was thinking of maybe tagging a different source tune to the end of this one to transition into, but still not sure..

On this version, I took a little advise, and made the timpani beat less when its first introduced, and I tried to make a somewhat transition... into the brass...

anyway, not sure if I have anything left in me for this one, so not sure if I should rap it up, or put another repeat in there for a little more length and then cut it.

but enjoy.

(edit) just listened to the mp3 and it cuts off for some reason after the brass, so going to try and re compile.

[zikon]

ok just uploaded new version, now its fixed. Enjoy

[hewhoisiam]

Mmhokay, like night and day, I just came from a chiptunes track I was listening to... Into full on orchestral arrangement. Wow I have to get my bearings. Hold on...

I can't find the example of this I want, so here's as close as I can get. It's good reference for some of the stuff I talk about:

Where Never Lark Or Eagle Flew http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=o_duSlRjoog&feature=related

For examples of dynamic contrast and PURE AWESOME! I'll never be convinced that Inchon doesn't take the cake:

Okay, lets get into the OMG LONGEST thing I've written on OCR.

Panning / location / mixing. With something like this, I would set up the sound scape 'about' the way it's done if you saw the people do it live. That's just location for panning the instruments. The way an orchestra is set up has an effect on the sound and dynamics and stuff like that.

lmao! I was sitting here going... It needs... TIMPANI DRUMS! And right on cue, there they were.

I'm going to make some suggestions percussively. The intro and some other places could use suspended cymbal rolls and wind chimes / tubular bells / triangle. I don't know how accurate of a sound you're going for, but in my experience there's 5-7 percussionists in a piece and no one sits, ever. I've played bits where I cover no less that 10 or so auxiliary parts.

As far as drum drums go, like I said TIMPANI! <3 <3 <3 But I don't hear a concert bass drum to help out that snare. While the snare drum gets all the glory, it's the bass drum that holds things together, has to have perfect tempo, and has to memorize the part so they can look at the conductor the whole time. Also, the timpani can be brought down a notch in places if you have the bass drum to give it that extra UNF! That it needs.

Now, to talk snare part. The snare isn't bad, but it could be better. Part of that is writing to remove repetition, and part is adding rolls, ruffs, flams. I picture extended closed rolls during bits in this, with gradual dynamic changes. Flam/Ruff/5Srolls are used in addition to accents to build to the accent. That's a lot of technical lingo, so I'll break it down a bit. Flam has a tiny grace note before the real note, so the effect sounds like a fuller main note. Ruff has 2 grace notes, and 5stroke has 4 (the 5th stroke is the actual hit) The grace note speed is basically a 32nd note. So if you have a Flam on 1, the grace note is 1 32nd note BEFORE that. Some drum programs have an option for sustained roll, that my be the case in yours, checks it out.

Some of the high notes, loud accents that you have, especially in the brass, sound thing and too loud. What I mean is that they should sound like more instruments not played blaring out that note. It can be hard to get the balance right on this, but like uh. Okay. The string section, sounds like a section. The brass section, ditto. Then at 2:19 it's like a solo of that low brass (sounds like a bone to me) That bit is played louder than any bone player prolly could, so it should be 2 or 3 voices there with him. This is even more the case at 2:20 and 2:22. Solos are great, but few and far between.

Instruments: I'd like to hear some flute and clarinet to give this some highs in places. I picture flute runs at 2:04 and weep thinking of how good they could sound there.

Clarinets, along with saxophones, fill a range that you've got pretty well fleshed out in the form of of the string section you're using. It would be nice to have them, but I don't miss them like the flutes. In fact, you may have some saxes in there. It's also a balance / panning / parts thing to be able to pick out individual sounds.

Dynamics/Length: They're good, but I want them perfect. For me, perfect usually comes down to more. More epic, more awesome, greater contrasts, stronger accents, shorter staccatos, etc. I'd like to her the intro extended a bit and start out whisper quiet. I'd like to hear the last 4 ish notes on the main pattern of the strings brought down a tad so that it really nails down the pattern when it repeats. At the end of the day, it's your show and that might not be what you want. But I see some strong dynamic contrasts added into this as a great way to expand the length and power of the song. I listen to some of the great tracks here on OCR and am in awe of how much space/quiet factors into epic/awesome just in the form of added contrast and breathing room to take things down a notch. This track for me has very much got the potential with very little work to be. Figure it's a 35 second intro 11 second outro, and the meat and tatters of the song is about 2:30. And... And I want it...

If ever you've wanted a wall of text, there it is. Hope it helps. Watch, the next WIP I listen to will be chiptunes again and I'll have to forget all this and go back to the argument saw > square = neener neener neener